[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[cripplereh]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Good points.  And any money allocated to new contracts for Miller and Bo will not start until the 2023/24 season, so still a full year away.  If Hogs and Kuzmenko are having big years (se deserving of big raises) then we can move Garland or Pearson next year to accommodate those increases. 

That is a plan and a good one.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Why on earth would we be keeping Miller for a useless playoff run when we need assets for the future in the worst way? That's a massive SHORTCUT to nowhere. We're not some top team and shouldn't be banking on some playoff run based on last year. This team could just as easily miss the playoffs as make them. We're still the same bubble team. Forecasting this as a 100 point team is where you're going wrong imo. We haven't fixed our main problems at all. A couple decent/fringe player changes doesn't suddenly make our defence any better. That's probably a more impartial realistic take similar to what someone unrelated to the Canucks would say.

 

Thinking we can waste high quality assets like Miller for things like trying for the playoffs instead of growing our future is a shortcut. Hoping for success instead of building for success.

Four 100+ point teams in the east last year lost in round one.  We need to focus, as you say, on building a team that is continually in the playoffs, because losing in round one happens to good clubs.  Look at the incredibly horrible Habs!  Cup Final , lose their only good players, and then they suck docks with guys who can’t play without the puck.  We don’t want to be a laughing joke of a team that has all the cap dumps the .habs do.  Anderson, Dvorak, et al. 

[JM_]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Lots of variables, that’s for sure.  Plus, it’s going to take JR/Allvin likely 2-3 years to fix our D.  I can understand why they want to get (in return for Miller or in another way) a Right Side D who is younger and can grow into a top pair role in two years instead of picks/prospects, which will take (as you’ve pointed out before) 4-6 years to help. 

Benning always talked about having a "Detroit style" conveyor belt of ripe prospects. Cool idea, and critical, but it can't be short cut. If we want that starting next season we have to nuke this thing and start over. I'm excited by the new management staff, they look like a group that could get this done over time. 

 

As far as the RHD goes, yeah its a pickle. But not insurmountable - we have 3 good puck movers on the left side, they need 3 stay at home types to pair with. We're not looking for 3 Karlsson's in their prime, maybe 2 Tanev and a Schenn. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by JM_

[cripplereh]

The problem is players like Pearson and Garland are paid well but deserve it.The other 4 that are over paid we can't get rid of which handcuffs us

[Mustard Tiger]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Why on earth would we be keeping Miller for a useless playoff run when we need assets for the future in the worst way? That's a massive SHORTCUT to nowhere. We're not some top team and shouldn't be banking on some playoff run based on last year. This team could just as easily miss the playoffs as make them. We're still the same bubble team. Forecasting this as a 100 point team is where you're going wrong imo. We haven't fixed our main problems at all. A couple decent/fringe player changes doesn't suddenly make our defence any better. That's probably a more impartial realistic take similar to what someone unrelated to the Canucks would say.

 

Thinking we can waste high quality assets like Miller for things like trying for the playoffs instead of growing our future is a shortcut. Hoping for success instead of building for success.

You're arguing with yourself at this point. Very few people want to keep Miller and I'm not one of them lol?

 

Miller is not this high quality asset in terms of what his return is. 3 pieces. 1 first, a player, a prospect. Like every other pending UFA who's traded every single year.

 

That is not a franchise altering return. That's not far off what we paid in the first place of a 1st and 3rd. You can go talk to the players and preach this forever rebuild, Convince them playoffs do nothing for you... we need nothing but prospects. Like man we are the 9th youngest team. We have tons of young star roster players, Who are lacking that extra gear without the playoff experience.

 

We need to trade Huggy to get this insane #2 + Bratt +++ type deals many people are now expecting

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

That is a plan and a good one.

We will still need to find two Right Shot D.  Schenn is done this year and Myers has this and one more.  If we do re-sign Miller then moving Garland for a young right side D becomes key.  Or maybe it’s Garland and Myers?  Not this summer, but next? 

[cripplereh]

If we star the season with the team we have,so far a small upgrade to forwards means we should be a playoff team.But what about Miller and Bo.I think one will be back Bo but we need something for Miller and me I think that will happen.

[cripplereh]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

We will still need to find two Right Shot D.  Schenn is done this year and Myers has this and one more.  If we do re-sign Miller then moving Garland for a young right side D becomes key.  Or maybe it’s Garland and Myers?  Not this summer, but next? 

A Pearson the sweeten the deal maybe?

[cripplereh]

Well whatever happens we now have assets to help out in any trade which we have not had on a long time

 

[Mustard Tiger]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Good points.  And any money allocated to new contracts for Miller and Bo will not start until the 2023/24 season, so still a full year away.  If Hogs and Kuzmenko are having big years (se deserving of big raises) then we can move Garland or Pearson next year to accommodate those increases. 

Exactly. Plus everyone should get use to this feeling we all have about what happens with Miller. If we want to become and remain competitive for years to come. We need to continue the trend of out with the old ( peaking just before UFA years ) selling high on them and replacing with the new ELC talent. 

 

Miller is just the first domino to fall. Garland maybe as well. Boeser in two ect. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

A Pearson the sweeten the deal maybe?

Pearson and Myers will have good value at the TDL’s of their UFA year.  I wonder if that’s the JR/Allvin plan?  Wait until these kinds of guys are coming UFAs, and then trade them as playoff rentals, regardless of if we are a playoff contender?  

[Bobby James]

So Larsson out of Seattle? 

 

He might be a good fit and Seattle isn't competing at the moment and looks to be rebuilding. 

 

What would people be willing to give up in a Larsson trade to Seattle (if anything, saying don't want him is fine too)? 

[cripplereh]

Just now, Alflives said:

Pearson and Myers will have good value at the TDL’s of their UFA year.  I wonder if that’s the JR/Allvin plan?  Wait until these kinds of guys are coming UFAs, and then trade them as playoff rentals, regardless of if we are a playoff contender?  

At this point I would say Yes as we need to restock more picks where we can

[Bobby James]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Pearson and Myers will have good value at the TDL’s of their UFA year.  I wonder if that’s the JR/Allvin plan?  Wait until these kinds of guys are coming UFAs, and then trade them as playoff rentals, regardless of if we are a playoff contender?  

I agree they could have value, especially at the deadline. 

 

But do the Canucks trade a top 4 RHD or Pearson (45ish point player) if they are in a playoff spot and having a good year? Couldn't that potentially damage the team and result in them missing the playoffs, but still nowhere near the bottom of the league. So another 15ish 1st round selection. 

[cripplereh]

1 minute ago, Bobby James said:

So Larsson out of Seattle? 

 

He might be a good fit and Seattle isn't competing at the moment and looks to be rebuilding. 

 

What would people be willing to give up in a Larsson trade to Seattle (if anything, saying don't want him is fine too)? 

To me the first Rd we need is a younger guy that can play with QH of that comes in a Miller trade or another trade

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Mustard Tiger said:

Nah. Having the historically worst PK of all time for 2 months killed us. Not losing a handful of games at the end of the year to deeper actual playoff teams. Can't start off 2 months behind everyone else and blame the last 2 weeks of the season imo

 

This where we disagree I guess. I try to look at this impartially and I see a team who has made the playoffs just once in 7 years and that was three years ago. That was also thanks to the play in system. Just because the team had a half decent stretch they still missed the playoffs ... again. They also won about 9 games in a row after the coaching change which isn't sustainable and obviously while coaching was an issue the players themselves were just playing like crap since BB obviously didn't have any coaching time prior to that run itself. Add that to a favorable schedule of back up goalies and no pressure and I don't think this is any sort of thing to hang your hat on.

 

I've watched close to every game for the last 8 years and I don't think an honest analysis can proclaim this team has suddenly arrived. Last year was definitely encouraging but I don't think the odds support that they're anything more than a bubble team until they actually go out and replicate that pace or better for 82 games. That's a huge gamble for team that has huge decisions facing them and therefore not in a good position to gamble

[Mustard Tiger]

7 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

This where we disagree I guess. I try to look at this impartially and I see a team who has made the playoffs just once in 7 years and that was three years ago. That was also thanks to the play in system. Just because the team had a half decent stretch they still missed the playoffs ... again. They also won about 9 games in a row after the coaching change which isn't sustainable and obviously while coaching was an issue the players themselves were just playing like crap since BB obviously didn't have any coaching time prior to that run itself. Add that to a favorable schedule of back up goalies and no pressure and I don't think this is any sort of thing to hang your hat on.

 

I've watched close to every game for the last 8 years and I don't think an honest analysis can proclaim this team has suddenly arrived. Last year was definitely encouraging but I don't think the odds support that they're anything more than a bubble team until they actually go out and replicate that pace or better for 82 games. That's a huge gamble for team that has huge decisions facing them and therefore not in a good position to gamble

Fair enough my friend. I totally understand every angle of this topic. I'm not " all in " for the playoffs in terms of making drastic future altering decisions. But I'm all in with what we got as of right now. I think we are a 7/8 seed. We would need alot to go against us, Including moving guys out in order to fall from my projected finish.

 

The age our core is at, The age our vets are at. I just feel like it's the perfect storm to reach the show. If we miss we pick 14/16. If we make it and lose in any round, its pick 17-32. I think it's better for all parties, And really good mentally for our fanbase to take that "Hit" in draft position for the playoffs experience.

 

Again I don't hang onto Miller past the TDL if he's not signed. And unless it's a 5 year deal I'm not signing him

[Gawdzukes]

51 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

Miller is not this high quality asset in terms of what his return is. 3 pieces. 1 first, a player, a prospect. Like every other pending UFA who's traded every single year.

 

That is not a franchise altering return. That's not far off what we paid in the first place of a 1st and 3rd. You can go talk to the players and preach this forever rebuild, Convince them playoffs do nothing for you... we need nothing but prospects. Like man we are the 9th youngest team. We have tons of young star roster players, Who are lacking that extra gear without the playoff experience.

 

We need to trade Huggy to get this insane #2 + Bratt +++ type deals many people are now expecting

How else do you acquire assets if not trading players? He's worth more than any player we've traded since I can remember. Bertuzzi, Bure?

 

It's not about some mind boggling return, it doesn't have to be a franchise altering trade. It's about building assets up instead of wasting opportunities to do so. That's the franchise altering part.

[Mustard Tiger]

14 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

How else do you acquire assets if not trading players? He's worth more than any player we've traded since I can remember. Bertuzzi, Bure?

 

It's not about some mind boggling return, it doesn't have to be a franchise altering trade. It's about building assets up instead of wasting opportunities to do so. That's the franchise altering part.

It's going to be a continuous pattern of opinion vs opinion that gets us nowhere. Atleast I did my part and brought you back to this thread

 

I'm sure we can both agree on the fact JR and Co are showing how they are proactive with bringing in 2 guys who make roughly the same as Miller, And who hopefully will contribute the same numbers as Miller ( combined ). Sure a nice change from Mr.ran out of time 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Mustard Tiger

[Bure_Pavel]

57 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

So Larsson out of Seattle? 

 

He might be a good fit and Seattle isn't competing at the moment and looks to be rebuilding. 

 

What would people be willing to give up in a Larsson trade to Seattle (if anything, saying don't want him is fine too)? 

Seattle will be more competitive this year especially if they sign Klingberg. Season ticket holders were apparently pissed last year, and rightfully so.