[Rumour] Boeser On Block

[RWJC]

48 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I doubt he's getting much over $6.5m. we're taking at MOST, an extra $1m. Much ado about nothing IMO.

 

Now if management feels we're better off with someone capable of say 3/4 of his offense, while bringing more speed and/or grit, or a much needed, high ceiling RD etc... By all means.

 

But his cap itself isn't remotely an issue IMO.

I don’t get how 1million in cap space is nothing. It’s a Burroughs. It’s a Chiasson. It’s a Highmore. It’s a LllamaKO. It’s a Podkolzin. And that still leaves us with 250K remaining.
 

we need depth. If you feel 1 million is nothing in achieving that I think you’re mistaken. I agree with a ton of what you post, but if you wanna win in this leagues you maximize and weaponize all your available cap as a contending club.

look at VGK, look at TB. Not a cent wasted if it doesn’t have to be.

[stawns]

43 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

There are only 40 players that have scored more goals than Boeser since he joined the league, in that same period 466 players have played at least 200 NHL games (I'm just trying to exclude a large portion of players that may have just entered the league or are simply tweeners with a game or two in the last 4.5 seasons) that puts Boeser in the 91st percentile for NHL regulars as a goal scorer. That also means, in a 32 team league, that most teams only have 1 player that can score more goals than Boeser.

 

As for damaged goods, like I mentioned in the post you quoted, Boeser has played in 93% of games over the last 3 seasons.

 

And as far as your notion that Boeser can be replaced by someone like Motte, Boeser has more goals and points in his first 9 game season and his first full season than Motte has in his entire career to date and more than twice the amount of career playoff points, not to mention Motte has only managed to play 53% of the games over the last 3 seasons, the least of any Canuck regular in the same time. 

 

Yes, last season, Toffoli had a great year and made his contract look great in the prime of his career, but Boeser has been more consistent, put up 14 more goals and 35 more points in his first 5 seasons in the NHL than Toffoli did and Boeser is just starting to enter his prime. 

 

Oh and Mark Stone who has 'barely played'??? has only played 5 less games than Boeser

it's not what he does do, it's what he doesn't do and how much valuable cap space he's going to chew up what he doesn't do.

[Darius]

2 minutes ago, RWJC said:

1) when the majority of your linemates are faster than you, unless you are a seriously profound positional player, you can become a liability for any zone entry, back check, etc etc, typical game scenarios. Speed may not be a major factor when getting in to position to shoot, but if the puck is turned over, lack of foot speed (and commitment) is definitely a liability. 

2) ppl reference the sedins and foot speed. Apologies but that’s not a viable argument/comparison.

game has changed dramatically since their time, and also referencing two players who, IN COMBINATION, developed their own style of play that enabled them to become successful and dominate. If you’re comparing BB to Sedins then why don’t you also compare  leadership, durability, consistency, cardio/conditioning, and that’s just a few areas. If you want to stick with foot speed, that’s fine, but the success Sedins had was due to innovation, communication, and taking a less talented player and making them a first liner. If you want to argue BB has shown that, it may be tough go.

Regarding foot speed.

 

I think all our top players have a flaw.  QH and EP are slight/smaller players.  BB is slower than you would like a top line forward to be.   I think these guys make up for their flaws in other ways.  EP for instance was the target of every top defence pair and top checker in the bubble playoffs.  He was knocked around but was able to succeed with at least a PPG if im not mistaken.   QH uses his body to gain position, that and his sublime skating ability.

 

Brock - if foot speed was that much of an issue how has he managed to score like.38 goals per game over several years now?  He knows how to get open, and he reads the play extremely well.  Im not buying that the game has changed to speed speed and more speed. Its been like that for a long time now and hes already shown he can operate in that environment.

 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Darius said:

Regarding foot speed.

 

I think all our top players have a flaw.  QH and EP are slight/smaller players.  BB is slower than you would like a top line forward to be.   I think these guys make up for their flaws in other ways.  EP for instance was the target of every top defence pair and top checker in the bubble playoffs.  He was knocked around but was able to succeed with at least a PPG if im not mistaken.   QH uses his body to gain position, that and his sublime skating ability.

 

Brock - if foot speed was that much of an issue how has he managed to score like.38 goals per game over several years now?  He knows how to get open, and he reads the play extremely well.  Im not buying that the game has changed to speed speed and more speed. Its been like that for a long time now and hes already shown he can operate in that environment.

 

The problem is, his first year was his best and he's trending in the wrong direction or best case scenario, plateau'd.  If moved, he might go on and score 30 one day, if he's pkaying with the right players, but I don't think he's going to do it in Van.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I don’t get how 1million in cap space is nothing. It’s a Burroughs. It’s a Chiasson. It’s a Highmore. It’s a LllamaKO. It’s a Podkolzin. And that still leaves us with 250K remaining.
 

we need depth. If you feel 1 million is nothing in achieving that I think you’re mistaken. I agree with a ton of what you post, but if you wanna win in this leagues you maximize and weaponize all your available cap as a contending club.

look at VGK, look at TB. Not a cent wasted if it doesn’t have to be.

A million isn't nothing. It's just not the huge stumbling block, for a player who's earned it, that some are making it out to be.

 

Young, improving players were always going to be getting raises. That's how this works. An earned, $1m raise for Boeser, isn't our problem.

[RWJC]

2 minutes ago, Darius said:

Regarding foot speed.

 

I think all our top players have a flaw.  QH and EP are slight/smaller players.  BB is slower than you would like a top line forward to be.   I think these guys make up for their flaws in other ways.  EP for instance was the target of every top defence pair and top checker in the bubble playoffs.  He was knocked around but was able to succeed with at least a PPG if im not mistaken.   QH uses his body to gain position, that and his sublime skating ability.

 

Brock - if foot speed was that much of an issue how has he managed to score like.38 goals per game over several years now?  He knows how to get open, and he reads the play extremely well.  Im not buying that the game has changed to speed speed and more speed. Its been like that for a long time now and hes already shown he can operate in that environment.

 

Operate? Sure.

Maximize your contract value? Not so fast (sorry for the bad pun). He hasn’t shown he’s going to do that. He has an inflated future value because of age and what he has shown previously that he COULD build from.

 

one knock…for a guy who doesn’t play a physical game, he sure is injured enough that it affects projections. Does that not concern you?

 

[Darius]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

The problem is, his first year was his best and he's trending in the wrong direction or best case scenario, plateau'd.  If moved, he might go on and score 30 one day, if he's pkaying with the right players, but I don't think he's going to do it in Van.

I think last year was his best year....hes gonna start rolling again this year just like before he sat out with covid ....but im just guessing now I admit.

[Darius]

7 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Operate? Sure.

Maximize your contract value? Not so fast (sorry for the bad pun). He hasn’t shown he’s going to do that. He has an inflated future value because of age and what he has shown previously that he COULD build from.

 

one knock…for a guy who doesn’t play a physical game, he sure is injured enough that it affects projections. Does that not concern you?

 

Yes his injuries concern me.  I think hes not 100 percent this year.  They have deployed him in front of the net again on the PP - to me that shows he cant get his grade A shot off ...probably a wrist issue.  I dont disagree with you completely.  If he wants 7.5 for extended contract they should move on from him.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Darius

[RWJC]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

A million isn't nothing. It's just not the huge stumbling block, for a player who's earned it, that some are making it out to be.

 

Young, improving players were always going to be getting raises. That's how this works. An earned, $1m raise for Boeser, isn't our problem.

But he hasn’t earned that raise. That’s the problem. He is trending down. His QO was based on him trending up. If he signs below that - hallelujah! - and it would be trademark of his character that we all appreciate. Unless he blows the socks off and continues to improve on his totals until end of season, he’ll end up a high priced/overpaid 1 dimensional forward. 
 

age/potential can only take precedence over durability and consistency for so long…

Edited February 20, 2022 by RWJC

[stawns]

as great as it was at the time, the worst thing to happen around BB was him having the rookie year that he did.  He came in under the radar and surprised a lot of people, but over the years teams have learned how to neutralize him and his numbers haven't improved as a result.  His rookie year set a bit of an unrealistic bar for him and set a skewed salary track for him as well, imo.  Had he not had the rookie season he did, I'd guess his next contract would be slightly under what he's gettting now.

Edited February 20, 2022 by stawns

[204CanucksFan]

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

it's not what he does do, it's what he doesn't do and how much valuable cap space he's going to chew up what he doesn't do.

Ok, so what doesn't he do? And what player replaces what he does do and where do they come from? And how much do they cost?

[204CanucksFan]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

The problem is, his first year was his best and he's trending in the wrong direction or best case scenario, plateau'd.  If moved, he might go on and score 30 one day, if he's pkaying with the right players, but I don't think he's going to do it in Van.

He's on pace for more than 30 goals this year ever since Boudreau took over.

[stawns]

Just now, 204CanucksFan said:

Ok, so what doesn't he do? And what player replaces what he does do and where do they come from? And how much do they cost?

pk

get the puck out

stand out in all three zones of the ice

skate well

stay healthy

 

You need guys like BB on the roster, just not at the price he's going to cost.  If I'm a GM any player that I pay that kind of salary to better be able to be on the ice for all situations and be an impact player in all three zones.

 

You don't have to replace him as garland already provides the same basic production and takes Boeser's spot in the lineup.  Boeser should be used to bring in a young(ish) dman to shore up the team there or a solid #2/3 RHC who can provide some offense, but shore up the pk.

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

He's on pace for more than 30 goals this year ever since Boudreau took over.

well, that's a new take on the "Boeser on pace for......." discussion 

[Darius]

Heres a question for those of you that want to move on from Brock.  

 

Where will you get those 20-30 goals from each year?  UFA will cost you at least 6 million you would think.  Internally?  Do you really see Hogz or Klimovich as long term solutions?  

 

I think if they move on from him they need to get a D man in return, thats the priority.  But that leaves a big hole on RW.

 

 

[Ferlands_Head]

3 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

He's on pace for more than 30 goals this year ever since Boudreau took over.

Being on pace for 30 is one thing, maintaining the pace and finishing the season is another. 

 

In his most productive seasons he starts strong and finishes slow. For example last season he starts out strong 10G 18GP then he trails off and scores 13G in his last 38GP

[Ferlands_Head]

1 minute ago, Darius said:

Heres a question for those of you that want to move on from Brock.  

 

Where will you get those 20-30 goals from each year?  UFA will cost you at least 6 million you would think.  Internally?  Do you really see Hogz or Klimovich as long term solutions?  

 

I think if they move on from him they need to get a D man in return, thats the priority.  But that leaves a big hole on RW.

 

 

I think Conor Garland can more or less replace it internally. I don't think Hog will replace it for a while, and Klimovich is still a long shot. 

 

I would love to get a RD back in return, and IMO the hole can be filled in FA with a guy like Reilly Smith who can pretty much match his production and play a better 2 way game.

[RWJC]

8 minutes ago, Darius said:

Heres a question for those of you that want to move on from Brock.  

 

Where will you get those 20-30 goals from each year?  UFA will cost you at least 6 million you would think.  Internally?  Do you really see Hogz or Klimovich as long term solutions?  

 

I think if they move on from him they need to get a D man in return, thats the priority.  But that leaves a big hole on RW.

 

 

For 7.5 million, I firmly believe we can pick up two players who could put up more goals and points than BB and be effective on all 4 lines. And solve some depth issues. 

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, RWJC said:

But he hasn’t earned that raise. That’s the problem. He is trending down.

Yeah, he has. Under Bruce, he's actually trending up. Small sample sizes and all that... 

 

13 minutes ago, RWJC said:

His QO was based on him trending up. If he signs below that - hallelujah! - and it would be trademark of his character that we all appreciate. Unless he blows the socks off and continues to improve on his totals until end of season, he’ll end up a high priced/overpaid 1 dimensional forward. 

 

age/potential can only take precedence over durability and consistency for so long…

Who suggested paying him his QO? A $1m raise is well under his QO FYI. (It's also the high end of what I think he'll get, as I noted earlier).

 

He's also not one dimensional. Good scoring, character guy with a decent 2 way game and underrated play making. 

[combover]

17 minutes ago, RWJC said:

1) when the majority of your linemates are faster than you, unless you are a seriously profound positional player, you can become a liability for any zone entry, back check, etc etc, typical game scenarios. Speed may not be a major factor when getting in to position to shoot, but if the puck is turned over, lack of foot speed (and commitment) is definitely a liability. 

2) ppl reference the sedins and foot speed. Apologies but that’s not a viable argument/comparison.

game has changed dramatically since their time, and also referencing two players who, IN COMBINATION, developed their own style of play that enabled them to become successful and dominate. If you’re comparing BB to Sedins then why don’t you also compare  leadership, durability, consistency, cardio/conditioning, and that’s just a few areas. If you want to stick with foot speed, that’s fine, but the success Sedins had was due to innovation, communication, and taking a less talented player and making them a first liner. If you want to argue BB has shown that, it may be tough go.

So you believe only fast players can be superstars. 
or top 6 players ? 
Highmores fast I guess he should be on the top line. 

boeser isn’t a liability.

building is just that, you surround players with players that compliment each other hughes plays better with a more defensive partner. 
As far a the sedins they struggled until the right line mates were found that’s more the point and in carter burrows. 

it’s all about balance fast slow skilled grit big small offensive minded defensive minded. 

getting more speed at the expense of skill achieves nothing. 
 

Boeser is a top 3 on most teams a  top 6 on every team but some believe he’s not good enough to play for Vancouver. 
If he’s so slow so ineffective why hasn’t it showed in his production? Year after year he is consistent. If He such a liability why isn’t he minus leader on the team.


I get it people are looking for anything (foot speed)  to justify trading a 50-60 point 24 year old player just entering his prime. 

but the only reason that holds water is he won’t sign an extension in the 6-7 mill range.