Who was a worse Oilers GM ? Mac-T or Chiarelli ?

[MaxVerstappen33]

The correct answer is Chiarelli.  Mac-T was criticized for inaction and being in the old boys club. And Chiarelli was the new face, cup winning GM.  Mac-T was the kind of GM who would simply refuse to do a deal if the value isn't there. This is why he didn't trade Taylor Hall or Eberle. But Chiarelli was the type who would do deals for the sake of doing deals. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you didn't do. Remember the rumors that Nonis was going to trade for Brad Richards ? It was Edler, Grabner and a 1st or something insane.

 

I'd say we are lucky in this franchise that we've never had a reckless GM. (knock on wood) Mike Gillis or Bennning have not been one of these. But it is funny and ridiculous to see Benning critics try and map this onto Benning by declaring Tanner Pearson a "bloated unmovable contract". Or saying that Sbisa's whopping 3 year deal is a "fireable offense".

 

Benning might be mediocre, just like Mac-T was. But to put him up there with the Chiarelli's is asinine. And be careful what you wish for. I would rather keep Benning than risk getting one of these true franchise crippling GM's.

 

This fanbase doesn't even know what its like to have a truly painful lopsided trade. So be careful what you wish for. This board would truly melt down if we were on the end of some of the trades that have gone on in this league thanks to reckless GM's. The meltdowns we've had are a walk in the park compared to these.

[Nucker 67]

Why?

[King Heffy]

8 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

This fanbase doesn't even know what its like to have a truly painful lopsided trade. So be careful what you wish for. This board would truly melt down if we were on the end of some of the trades that have gone on in this league thanks to reckless GM's. The meltdowns we've had are a walk in the park compared to these.

Cam Neely

[nuckin_futz]

7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Cam Neely

+ a 1st round pick which turned out to be #3 over all. The pick became defenseman Glen Wesley who played more than 1400 games and scored more than 500points..

[khay]

Agree. Chiarelli is one of the worst GMs I've ever seen.

 

I don't even know how the Bruins won the cup in 2011. I guess most of pieces were already there before he became a GM there.

 

If he didn't trade for Reinhart, if he didn't piss away assets like Hall and Eberle, things could have gone much smoother for the Oilers. 

 

It's almost as if though he was sent by hockey god to even out the playing field since they won the lottery and drafted McDavid.

 

Hockey god: "Oh, you won the lottery again? And you have another high first round draft pick in 2015? OK, I'm send Chia to wipe out assets off your team and he will sign Lucic to handicap your cap structure. It's only fair."

 

JB is no where near as bad as Chiarelli but some of his decisions since 2020 is getting him close.

 

Letting Tanev walk was a non starter for me. And then we let Edler walk without a plan to replace him. That's the two backbones of your defence lost for nothing. 

 

And, I'm not even going to blame him about Marky and Toffoli. He made a decision to go with Demko over Marky and Viranen over Toffoli. One sort of was the right call and the other one didn't work out but that's fine with me. You don't get every thing correct.

 

But losing Tanev and Edler for nothing... that really bothers me to this day. Not just because I was a big fan of those players but I felt they handled so much hard minutes and knew we would be f*cked if we didn't properly replace them and I knew how hard it would be to replace their minutes. The fact that a professional hockey man couldn't foresee something a fan could see... that bothers me and I have lost faith in his ability to assess and upgrade the team.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

On 12/3/2021 at 10:29 AM, khay said:

Agree. Chiarelli is one of the worst GMs I've ever seen.

 

I don't even know how the Bruins won the cup in 2011. I guess most of pieces were already there before he became a GM there.

 

If he didn't trade for Reinhart, if he didn't piss away assets like Hall and Eberle, things could have gone much smoother for the Oilers. 

 

It's almost as if though he was sent by hockey god to even out the playing field since they won the lottery and drafted McDavid.

 

Hockey god: "Oh, you won the lottery again? And you have another high first round draft pick in 2015? OK, I'm send Chia to wipe out assets off your team and he will sign Lucic to handicap your cap structure. It's only fair."

 

JB is no where near as bad as Chiarelli but some of his decisions since 2020 is getting him close.

 

Letting Tanev walk was a non starter for me. And then we let Edler walk without a plan to replace him. That's the two backbones of your defence lost for nothing. 

 

And, I'm not even going to blame him about Marky and Toffoli. He made a decision to go with Demko over Marky and Viranen over Toffoli. One sort of was the right call and the other one didn't work out but that's fine with me. You don't get every thing correct.

 

But losing Tanev and Edler for nothing... that really bothers me to this day. Not just because I was a big fan of those players but I felt they handled so much hard minutes and knew we would be f*cked if we didn't properly replace them and I knew how hard it would be to replace their minutes. The fact that a professional hockey man couldn't foresee something a fan could see... that bothers me and I have lost faith in his ability to assess and upgrade the team.

 

 

Peter Chiarelli as Boston GM:

 

1. Drafted Milan Lucic

2. Traded a 4th and 5th round pick and drafted Brad Marchand

3. Traded Phil Kessel for Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton

4. Drafted David Pastrnak

5. Traded for Tuukka Rask

6. Traded for Johnny Boychuk

7. Traded for Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell

8. Traded for Mark Recchi

9. Traded for Adam McQuaid

10. Traded for Dennis Seidenberg

11. Trade for Rich Peverley

12. Traded for Thomas Kaberle

 

2011 Championship Team:

 

Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand, Tyler Seguin, Nathan Horton, Adam McQuaid, Mark Recchi, Gregory Campbell, Dennis Seidenberg, Johnny Boychuk, Tuukka Rask, Rich Peverley, Thomas Kaberle

 

Over 50% of the 2011 Boston Stanley Cup winning team was built by Chiarelli over a 5 year period.

 

 

[khay]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Peter Chiarelli as Boston GM:

 

1. Drafted Milan Lucic

2. Traded a 4th and 5th round pick and drafted Brad Marchand

3. Traded Phil Kessel for Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton

4. Drafted David Pastrnak

5. Traded for Tuukka Rask

6. Traded for Johnny Boychuk

7. Traded for Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell

8. Traded for Mark Recchi

9. Traded for Adam McQuaid

10. Traded for Dennis Seidenberg

11. Trade for Rich Peverley

12. Traded for Thomas Kaberle

 

2011 Championship Team:

 

Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand, Tyler Seguin, Nathan Horton, Adam McQuaid, Mark Recchi, Gregory Campbell, Dennis Seidenberg, Johnny Boychuk, Tuukka Rask, Rich Peverley, Thomas Kaberle

 

Over 50% of the 2011 Boston Stanley Cup winning team was built by Chiarelli over a 5 year period.

 

 

You have a point there. But I will put it out that some of the most important moves were done by Jeff Gorton while he was an interim GM there.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gorton

 

- Gorton also signed Chara and Savard.

- Gorton ran 2006 draft, so Kessel, Marchand, and Lucic are his picks.

- Traded for Rask (it seems like either you or Wikipedia got this wrong).

- Seguin did play but on a 4th line. Rask was a backup.

- Hey! I thought Pasta was Benning's pick 

 

One could argue that getting Gregory Campbell won them the cup. So maybe Chia knew exactly what he was doing.

 

I'll admit, Chia chiseled around the core roster pretty well but as we saw in Edmonton, he couldn't put a team up from the scratch.

 

[D.B Cooper]

Jim Benning

[iinatcc]

On 12/4/2021 at 10:37 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Peter Chiarelli as Boston GM:

 

1. Drafted Milan Lucic

2. Traded a 4th and 5th round pick and drafted Brad Marchand

3. Traded Phil Kessel for Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton

4. Drafted David Pastrnak

5. Traded for Tuukka Rask

6. Traded for Johnny Boychuk

7. Traded for Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell

8. Traded for Mark Recchi

9. Traded for Adam McQuaid

10. Traded for Dennis Seidenberg

11. Trade for Rich Peverley

12. Traded for Thomas Kaberle

 

2011 Championship Team:

 

Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand, Tyler Seguin, Nathan Horton, Adam McQuaid, Mark Recchi, Gregory Campbell, Dennis Seidenberg, Johnny Boychuk, Tuukka Rask, Rich Peverley, Thomas Kaberle

 

Over 50% of the 2011 Boston Stanley Cup winning team was built by Chiarelli over a 5 year period.

 

 

Or was Benning the real mastermind  ?

 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

I started this thread because of one name. Jim Rutherford. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

On 12/4/2021 at 1:37 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Peter Chiarelli as Boston GM:

 

1. Drafted Milan Lucic

2. Traded a 4th and 5th round pick and drafted Brad Marchand

3. Traded Phil Kessel for Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton

4. Drafted David Pastrnak

5. Traded for Tuukka Rask

6. Traded for Johnny Boychuk

7. Traded for Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell

8. Traded for Mark Recchi

9. Traded for Adam McQuaid

10. Traded for Dennis Seidenberg

11. Trade for Rich Peverley

12. Traded for Thomas Kaberle

 

2011 Championship Team:

 

Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand, Tyler Seguin, Nathan Horton, Adam McQuaid, Mark Recchi, Gregory Campbell, Dennis Seidenberg, Johnny Boychuk, Tuukka Rask, Rich Peverley, Thomas Kaberle

 

Over 50% of the 2011 Boston Stanley Cup winning team was built by Chiarelli over a 5 year period.

 

 

And he completely bombed at the Oilers. He got fired because of deals he made.  He committed fireable offenses. So. What are we supposed to learn from this? 

[MaxVerstappen33]

The big 2 in Edmonton lead the league in ice time. They haven't had a goal from their 3rd or 4th line in 9 games 

[wallstreetamigo]

On 12/4/2021 at 1:37 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Peter Chiarelli as Boston GM:

 

1. Drafted Milan Lucic

2. Traded a 4th and 5th round pick and drafted Brad Marchand

3. Traded Phil Kessel for Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton

4. Drafted David Pastrnak

5. Traded for Tuukka Rask

6. Traded for Johnny Boychuk

7. Traded for Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell

8. Traded for Mark Recchi

9. Traded for Adam McQuaid

10. Traded for Dennis Seidenberg

11. Trade for Rich Peverley

12. Traded for Thomas Kaberle

 

2011 Championship Team:

 

Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand, Tyler Seguin, Nathan Horton, Adam McQuaid, Mark Recchi, Gregory Campbell, Dennis Seidenberg, Johnny Boychuk, Tuukka Rask, Rich Peverley, Thomas Kaberle

 

Over 50% of the 2011 Boston Stanley Cup winning team was built by Chiarelli over a 5 year period.

 

 

Actually, Jeff Gorton is the guy who set Chiarelli up to win a cup then &^@# it all up.

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

53 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Actually, Jeff Gorton is the guy who set Chiarelli up to win a cup then &^@# it all up.

 

 

 

Gorton was literally in charge of the Bruins for 4 months before Chiarelli took over.  Are you saying he built the entire Bruins Stanley Cup championship team in 4 months?  

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Gorton was literally in charge of the Bruins for 4 months before Chiarelli took over.  Are you saying he built the entire Bruins Stanley Cup championship team in 4 months?  

No, I am saying he put in place a hell of a lot of key pieces in 4 months. Pieces that you gave credit to Chiarelli for. 

[Elias Pettersson]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

No, I am saying he put in place a hell of a lot of key pieces in 4 months. Pieces that you gave credit to Chiarelli for. 

Gorton drafted Phil Kessel.  Chiarelli turned around and traded him afterwards.  Chiarelli traded for the picks that landed Marchand.  

 

Gorton put some pieces together and Chiarelli and Benning had to build the rest of the team.

 

It's the same thing with Benning in Vancouver.  He built this core and now JR has to fill in the pieces.  However, you never seem to give any credit to Benning at all, it was all Judd Brackett.  Of course, you gave Benning all the credit for drafting Juolevi, that was totally his call.  Every other player that was drafted was Brackett making the call.  What about the trades that landed Miller, Garland and OEL?  Brackett wasn't around for those.

 

At the end of the day, it takes multiple people to build a cup contender.  Most if not all GM's inherit a team with players they can build around.  And most GM's have more than one person making personnel decisions, whether it's someone running the draft while another is in charge of trading, while others are doing all of the amateur and pro scouting.  This is the reason why most POHO's clean house after they take over.  Because they want their "team" in place who they trust.  This is exactly what has happened in Vancouver.

[wallstreetamigo]

26 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gorton drafted Phil Kessel.  Chiarelli turned around and traded him afterwards.  Chiarelli traded for the picks that landed Marchand.  

 

Gorton put some pieces together and Chiarelli and Benning had to build the rest of the team.

 

It's the same thing with Benning in Vancouver.  He built this core and now JR has to fill in the pieces.  However, you never seem to give any credit to Benning at all, it was all Judd Brackett.  Of course, you gave Benning all the credit for drafting Juolevi, that was totally his call.  Every other player that was drafted was Brackett making the call.  What about the trades that landed Miller, Garland and OEL?  Brackett wasn't around for those.

 

At the end of the day, it takes multiple people to build a cup contender.  Most if not all GM's inherit a team with players they can build around.  And most GM's have more than one person making personnel decisions, whether it's someone running the draft while another is in charge of trading, while others are doing all of the amateur and pro scouting.  This is the reason why most POHO's clean house after they take over.  Because they want their "team" in place who they trust.  This is exactly what has happened in Vancouver.

Actually, Gorton ran the 2006 draft and the early phases of free agency as the interim GM. Due to Chiarelli being the asst gm of Ottawa when hired. Part of his hiring was the agreement he would not run things for Boston. Chiarelli could not officially take over as GM until Jul 15 when his contract with Ottawa ended.

 

So Kessel, Marchand, and Lucic we’re all drafted by Gorton (and he traded the picks to move up for Marchand). Plus, he made the trade for Rask and signed Savard and Chara as UFA.

 

Chiarelli wasn’t horrible in Boston. He made some dumb moves though for sure. In Edmonton he was garbage, full stop.

Edited December 14, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[wallstreetamigo]

29 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gorton drafted Phil Kessel.  Chiarelli turned around and traded him afterwards.  Chiarelli traded for the picks that landed Marchand.  

 

Gorton put some pieces together and Chiarelli and Benning had to build the rest of the team.

 

It's the same thing with Benning in Vancouver.  He built this core and now JR has to fill in the pieces.  However, you never seem to give any credit to Benning at all, it was all Judd Brackett.  Of course, you gave Benning all the credit for drafting Juolevi, that was totally his call.  Every other player that was drafted was Brackett making the call.  What about the trades that landed Miller, Garland and OEL?  Brackett wasn't around for those.

 

At the end of the day, it takes multiple people to build a cup contender.  Most if not all GM's inherit a team with players they can build around.  And most GM's have more than one person making personnel decisions, whether it's someone running the draft while another is in charge of trading, while others are doing all of the amateur and pro scouting.  This is the reason why most POHO's clean house after they take over.  Because they want their "team" in place who they trust.  This is exactly what has happened in Vancouver.

EVERY GM inherits players they can build around. There has not likely been many teams (except maybe ones with long serving GM’s) that have won a Stanley Cup where the previous regime didn’t have some footprint on it. 
 

It was widely reported that Benning wanted Juolevi. Just going by what was said. Many of the good draft “wins” came from not only Brackett’s time as head guy but specifically from his scouting regions Boeser, Demko, Rathbone, etc. He was clearly good at his job. Not sure why people need to slag him. It’s interesting that Benning/Weisbrod didn’t make a 1st round pick after he left so it’s kind of hard to know how good they actually were.

[Elias Pettersson]

57 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Actually, Gorton ran the 2006 draft and the early phases of free agency as the interim GM. Due to Chiarelli being the asst gm of Ottawa when hired. Part of his hiring was the agreement he would not run things for Boston. Chiarelli could not officially take over as GM until Jul 15 when his contract with Ottawa ended.

 

So Kessel, Marchand, and Lucic we’re all drafted by Gorton (and he traded the picks to move up for Marchand). Plus, he made the trade for Rask and signed Savard and Chara as UFA.

 

Chiarelli wasn’t horrible in Boston. He made some dumb moves though for sure. In Edmonton he was garbage, full stop.

 

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Ya it sure took great GM skill to draft that guy with the 1st overall pick!

 

Honestly, you are better than that weaksauce attempt.

 

No response to it being pointed out that a bunch of the credit you gave Chiarelli was actually Gorton?