rekker Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, 4petesake said: I agree with @Hairy Kneel. Too much risk for both and it looks like the arbitrator may not have a ruling until a couple of days after free agency starts. A trade seems unlikely if they settle but certainly possible depending on how much of the $23M the Sharks are willing to eat. If the Sharks lose in arbitration he would still be their asset to trade. It's Bettman's NHL. San Jose will get off with as little damage against as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, rekker said: It's Bettman's NHL. San Jose will get off with as little damage against as possible. I know nothing about this “independent” arbitrator but why do I feel like you nailed it? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 hours ago, 4petesake said: The arbitrator can decides either/or, nothing in between or extra. That can only happen if the two sides come to an agreement without the arbitrator. That’s why it’s a $23M game of chicken right now. There is too much at stake for either side to let the fate of the decision rest in the hands of the arbitrator, who will make a binary and binding judgment on whether the contract will be reinstated in full or the Sharks terminated his contract with cause. There is no middle ground. For Kane, that is the difference between the approximately $23 million remaining on his contract at the time of termination – and zero dollars. For the Sharks, that is the difference between no cap penalties at all and having to put Kane’s full, $7 million cap hit back on the books for the next three seasons, in addition to taking a player they clearly do not want back into their organization. I would not be surprised to see the whole case go to court, there is much more at stake for the NHLPA in this,. And holding the NHL to accountability. The arbitration, is only a means to avoid court and a presidence may need to be set out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, rekker said: It's Bettman's NHL. San Jose will get off with as little damage against as possible. It's a neutral arbitrator. Either SJS was right to void his contract or they weren't and it has to be re-instated. 2 minutes ago, SilentSam said: I would not be surprised to see the whole case go to court, there is much more at stake for the NHLPA in this,. And holding the NHL to accountability. The arbitration, is only a means to avoid court and a presidence may need to be set out of it. It's already in court through a neutral arbitrator. Kane is represented by the NHLPA - ie they are accepting that the ruling is binding whatever the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 hours ago, mll said: There's only 2 possible outcomes - the contract remains voided or the contract is re-instated. There's no damages or middle ground. I don’t agree with this, if the contract is valid , damages and defimation have occurred because of wrongful termination. The player can not be asked to go back to complete his contract in what now is a hostile environment. If in favour of Player, full payout on wrongful dismissal and damages for that upheaval. If in favour of Team, contract is simply terminated.. and player free to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, mll said: It's a neutral arbitrator. Either SJS was right to void his contract or they weren't and it has to be re-instated. It's already in court through a neutral arbitrator. Kane is represented by the NHLPA - ie they are accepting that the ruling is binding whatever the outcome. Isn’t neutral arbitration outside of court? it only works if there is an “out of court” settlement, regardless of representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, 4petesake said: I know nothing about this “independent” arbitrator but why do I feel like you nailed it? Independent arbiter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Isn’t neutral arbitration outside of court? it only works if there is an “out of court” settlement, regardless of representation. He signed an NHL contract and is governed by the rules set by the NHL/NHLPA. The NHL has it's own set of rules and procedures and any disputes are settled through a neutral arbitrator as designated by the NHLPA and the NHL. There's no such thing as appealing to a public court. The CBA is an agreement between the NHL and the NHLPA. Edited June 17, 2022 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, mll said: It's a neutral arbitrator. Either SJS was right to void his contract or they weren't and it has to be re-instated. It's already in court through a neutral arbitrator. Kane is represented by the NHLPA - ie they are accepting that the ruling is binding whatever the outcome. You have way more faith in the system than is warranted. My guess is the arbitrator has a North East American accent. Probably a lawyer Bettman knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Just now, rekker said: You have way more faith in the system than is warranted. My guess is the arbitrator has a North East American accent. Probably a lawyer Bettman knows. Not how it works. The CBA covers the procedure in case of a grievance. The CBA is an agreement between the NHLPA and the NHL. It's not a document written by the NHL alone - the players had to approve it too. The neutral arbitrator is appointed jointly by both parties and has to be a member of the National Academy of Arbitrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, mll said: Not how it works. The CBA covers the procedure in case of a grievance. The CBA is an agreement between the NHLPA and the NHL. It's not a document written by the NHL alone - the players had to approve it too. The neutral arbitrator is appointed jointly by both parties and has to be a member of the National Academy of Arbitrators. My observations after being on this earth for over five decades? Very little exisits without greed and corruption. I just don't share your faith in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, rekker said: My observations after being on this earth for over five decades? Very little exisits without greed and corruption. I just don't share your faith in the system. It's what they agreed to and the NHLPA has just as much of a voice to change things. Most teams probably don't even want SJS to be able to void the contract. Edited June 17, 2022 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Most likely SJS will pay the difference between what kane will make on next contract vs what he would have made with SJS. Kane won't get the full amount from SJS plus all of his next contract. SJS will likely pay 1 to 2 million per year depending on Kanes salary next contract. Kane will make all of his money from SJS contract but paid by 2 different teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: Most likely SJS will pay the difference between what kane will make on next contract vs what he would have made with SJS. Kane won't get the full amount from SJS plus all of his next contract. SJS will likely pay 1 to 2 million per year depending on Kanes salary next contract. Kane will make all of his money from SJS contract but paid by 2 different teams. Unless the two sides settle it’s all or nothing if it’s left to the arbitrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 hours ago, SilentSam said: I don’t agree with this, if the contract is valid , damages and defimation have occurred because of wrongful termination. The player can not be asked to go back to complete his contract in what now is a hostile environment. If in favour of Player, full payout on wrongful dismissal and damages for that upheaval. If in favour of Team, contract is simply terminated.. and player free to move on. Wouldn't Kane have the right to take SJS and the NHL to court and sue their a** off for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I think Kane is in the driver's seat. If his contract gets reinstated then he gets his $23 million and SJS have to deal with trying to trade him or buy him out. If Kane loses then I am sure several teams will be interested in his services at a salary close to the $7 million, or maybe a longer term deal at a lower cap hit. I am also pretty sure that if Kane wins he has the right to hire a lawyer and take SJS and the NHL to court over defamation and wrongful termination... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I think Kane is in the driver's seat. If his contract gets reinstated then he gets his $23 million and SJS have to deal with trying to trade him or buy him out. If Kane loses then I am sure several teams will be interested in his services at a salary close to the $7 million, or maybe a longer term deal at a lower cap hit. I am also pretty sure that if Kane wins he has the right to hire a lawyer and take SJS and the NHL to court over defamation and wrongful termination... I feel the same about this, to add , if the league has the authority, or is the “authority “ to validate , qualify, or terminate any contract or transaction, they themselves hold even more responsibility for the effects of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, SilentSam said: I feel the same about this, to add , if the league has the authority, or is the “authority “ to validate , qualify, or terminate any contract or transaction, they themselves hold even more responsibility for the effects of that. Yes I agree Sam. The NHL validated the contract termination so they are equally liable as the SJS in this situation. The only thing I can see from Kane's point of view not to proceed with a lawsuit is he doesn't want to rock the boat and get blackballed from the league. SJS Sharks will probably end up buying him out if he wins and then he can sign a new contract with anyone plus collect the buyout money, so he wins big time on that one. I can't see how Kane loses this case if the arbitrator is a neutral party. Having your entire contract terminated over not following COVID protocol seems quite harsh, a fine and suspension would have been appropriate in that case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes I agree Sam. The NHL validated the contract termination so they are equally liable as the SJS in this situation. The only thing I can see from Kane's point of view not to proceed with a lawsuit is he doesn't want to rock the boat and get blackballed from the league. SJS Sharks will probably end up buying him out if he wins and then he can sign a new contract with anyone plus collect the buyout money, so he wins big time on that one. I can't see how Kane loses this case if the arbitrator is a neutral party. Having your entire contract terminated over not following COVID protocol seems quite harsh, a fine and suspension would have been appropriate in that case. OJ probably thought the same thing about doing time in jail after getting away with murder I wonder if he is still looking for the murderer as he promised (he must believe have a tip that the murderer is a golfer in Nevada)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes I agree Sam. The NHL validated the contract termination so they are equally liable as the SJS in this situation. The only thing I can see from Kane's point of view not to proceed with a lawsuit is he doesn't want to rock the boat and get blackballed from the league. SJS Sharks will probably end up buying him out if he wins and then he can sign a new contract with anyone plus collect the buyout money, so he wins big time on that one. I can't see how Kane loses this case if the arbitrator is a neutral party. Having your entire contract terminated over not following COVID protocol seems quite harsh, a fine and suspension would have been appropriate in that case. Kane signed an NHL contract where he agreed that any dispute will be resolved in accordance with the CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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