[Speculation] Canucks exploring Tyler Myers trade

[stawns]

48 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Not sure why people keep parroting this about Severson but he's far from a trainwreck defensively. 

Yeah, I'm not sure where that's coming from either

[canuck73_3]

14 minutes ago, stawns said:

Is t that the definition of Myers?  He's playing a shutdown role while contributing a little on offense

That’s not his ideal role. I like him more in an offensive B dman role but we have Hughes and OEL for that. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by canuck73_3

[coryberg]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

Yeah, I'm not sure where that's coming from either

 

4 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Not sure why people keep parroting this about Severson but he's far from a trainwreck defensively. 

You mean besides his career -119?

 

I've seen him play about 20 times over the years and the best comparison on the defensive side of the puck I could make is Luca Sbisa. Solid dman with size that can look great for 90% of the game but tosses in absolute boneheaded plays when it matters most.

 

 

 

[Melbourne Canuck]

Doesn’t Myers’ contract become really easy to move next year after his bonus? Think I saw somewhere that he’s actually only owed $1m in real money despite the cap hit. He’d surely become an asset at that point and the club could get some value for him. IIRC Pearson is in the same situation. I think next off season is when we see some meaningful cap space carved out but will also have Bo & Höglander to re-sign and EP & Podz the year after and some D to improve while Demko is on his sweetheart deal. Lots of work to be done. 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

4 hours ago, coryberg said:

 

You mean besides his career -119?

 

I've seen him play about 20 times over the years and the best comparison on the defensive side of the puck I could make is Luca Sbisa. Solid dman with size that can look great for 90% of the game but tosses in absolute boneheaded plays when it matters most.

 

I somehow both agree and disagree with you as someone else who watched the Devils a lot last year.

 

@stawns & @canuck73_3 are correct IMO - the narrative that he is a trainwreck defensively is not really true. This summary was written before the end of last season, in March, but is still relatively accurate (his CF% dropped to 50.5 over the last month of reg. season play):
 

Quote

 

At the moment, his 31 points in 53 games would put him on pace for 48 points, which would be a career-high. He’s been particularly great since the calendar flipped to 2022, as he has 22 points in his last 23 games. 

 

Overall, Severson’s underlying metrics are impressive. He has a Corsi-for percentage (CF%) of 52.07 percent and expected goals percentage (xG%) of 52.8 percent. Since the start of 2019-20, he has an expected goals above replacement (xGAR) of 22.6, ranked 29th among all defensemen in the NHL. 

 

Severson plays the way many modern defensemen do as well. He adds value offensively — his even-strength offense has been worth an xGAR of 8.2. And while he’s gotten a bit of a reputation among Devils fans as a defensive liability, the numbers don’t bear that out — his even-strength defense has been worth an xGAR of 9.6. He is prone to mental lapses on defense, but overall, his results have been among the better blueliners in the NHL. 

 

Another thing working in Severson’s favor this season is that he’s logged top-pair minutes, mostly while Dougie Hamilton was out with a broken jaw. He handled those minutes well alongside Jonas Siegenthaler to give the Devils one of the best shutdown pairs they’ve had in quite some time. This has all come while playing on a team that’s 12 games below NHL .500 and has had trouble keeping the puck out of their own net.

 

As a top pairing defenseman, paired with a partner as offensively dynamic as Quinn Hughes, those offensive #s would continue to be quite high is my guess. Defensively, his underlying stats are pretty darn good - yes, he's -119 career wise but just look to Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier for +/-s that might be more related to team play than anything.

 

All of this, while still being deployed w/ dzone starts 55% of the time (compared to Quinn who was deployed there only 36 percent of the time last year, 41 percent at EV play).

 

But I also agree with you that Severson can be little like Alex Edler in making an occasional boneheaded play. It's possible playing with an actual goalie like Demko would diminish that somewhat, and who knows, maybe it's something that he can still improve on. Is he a perfect, elite, All-Star defenseman comparable to Ekblad? No, but he is a top-4 defenseman who shone with top-pairing minutes last year, can keep up with Hughes on both ends of the ice, would not have to bailed out like Schenn or Hamonic by Hughes all the time, and may even take another step forward on a better team with an elite partner in Hughes? Yes. Definitely a player I'd like to see brought in to fill the final hole in the Canucks roster if possible

[canuck73_3]

14 hours ago, coryberg said:

 

You mean besides his career -119?

 

I've seen him play about 20 times over the years and the best comparison on the defensive side of the puck I could make is Luca Sbisa. Solid dman with size that can look great for 90% of the game but tosses in absolute boneheaded plays when it matters most.

 

 

 

The Devils have made the playoffs 2 in his 8 seasons and have been bad to god awful 6 of those years using plus minus without looking at the whole picture is disingenuous wadr. @Ilya Mikheyev covered the rest in more detail as well. 

[coryberg]

8 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

The Devils have made the playoffs 2 in his 8 seasons and have been bad to god awful 6 of those years using plus minus without looking at the whole picture is disingenuous wadr. @Ilya Mikheyev covered the rest in more detail as well. 

And in those 2 years he was still a minus player... despite putting up good offensive numbers. Plus minus aside I've watched the guy quite a bit and there have been many times he has looked lost in his own zone... usually at the worst time possible. A very good offensive D-man habitual brain farts is not what this team needs.

[canuck73_3]

6 hours ago, coryberg said:

And in those 2 years he was still a minus player... despite putting up good offensive numbers. Plus minus aside I've watched the guy quite a bit and there have been many times he has looked lost in his own zone... usually at the worst time possible. A very good offensive D-man habitual brain farts is not what this team needs.

Correction 1 year in the NHL his other playoff year was in Albany. Either way plus/minus doesn’t tell the full story either regardless. And I wouldn’t be touting him as a Norris candidate either even if he was a +30 etc.

 

There is a middle ground though it's not just elite shutdown player or garbage defensively. Severson who I have watched since his Kelowna days is decent defensively but prone to occasional gaffes trying to break out offensively. Having a dual threat on either side with him and Hughes would be beneficial both 5 on 5 and on the PP. 

[Devron]

Pretty pointless to trade Myers at this point unless we are getting 2 x RH defencemen back lol

[canuck73_3]

7 minutes ago, Devron said:

Pretty pointless to trade Myers at this point unless we are getting 2 x RH defencemen back lol

If we were to acquire both Severson and a rightside defensive dman I’d have no issue. As of right now would rather keep Myers but still find a defensive dman. 

[mll]

18 hours ago, Melbourne Canuck said:

Doesn’t Myers’ contract become really easy to move next year after his bonus? Think I saw somewhere that he’s actually only owed $1m in real money despite the cap hit. He’d surely become an asset at that point and the club could get some value for him. IIRC Pearson is in the same situation. I think next off season is when we see some meaningful cap space carved out but will also have Bo & Höglander to re-sign and EP & Podz the year after and some D to improve while Demko is on his sweetheart deal. Lots of work to be done. 

 

It's still a 6M cap hit - contending teams are going to be more concerned about cap hit than salary with cap space so scarce.  Vancouver's main objective was to clear cap space this off-season so they could try and adjust the team composition - they haven't been able to clear cap with Rutherford confirming that it would require to add futures.

 

[canuck73_3]

6 minutes ago, mll said:

 

It's still a 6M cap hit - contending teams are going to be more concerned about cap hit than salary with cap space so scarce.  Vancouver's main objective was to clear cap space this off-season so they could try and adjust the team composition - they haven't been able to clear cap with Rutherford confirming that it would require to add futures.

 

But, with the contract being easier to move next year he could be moved to the Arizona retirement home where they care more about adding cap hit to make the cap floor without paying actual money to get there. 

[Gawdzukes]

32 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Correction 1 year in the NHL his other playoff year was in Albany. Either way plus/minus doesn’t tell the full story either regardless. And I wouldn’t be touting him as a Norris candidate either even if he was a +30 etc.

 

There is a middle ground though it's not just elite shutdown player or garbage defensively. Severson who I have watched since his Kelowna days is decent defensively but prone to occasional gaffes trying to break out offensively. Having a dual threat on either side with him and Hughes would be beneficial both 5 on 5 and on the PP. 

One thing I noticed last year was the 5v5 play in close games. At times the other teams were simply able to outplay us. It really seemed like we didn't have a RD capable of playing simple catch and pass hockey as well as the other teams. Almost as if we were playing with only 4 guys to their 5. This lead to us being on our heels for large portions of the third. When the other teams put out their best 5 man unit we couldn't match.

 

I think a player with some offensive acumen and all around skill is needed on the right side of D. Severson is definitely an interesting proposition, but maybe this also comes as a third pairing replacement for Schenn or a young rookie in trade.

[mll]

22 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

But, with the contract being easier to move next year he could be moved to the Arizona retirement home where they care more about adding cap hit to make the cap floor without paying actual money to get there. 

They will still be asking for an asset to take on that contract.  Arizona has accumulated quite a few picks by taking on unwanted contracts.  There are quite a few teams that would like to clear cap but it's expensive.  

[coryberg]

42 minutes ago, mll said:

 

It's still a 6M cap hit - contending teams are going to be more concerned about cap hit than salary with cap space so scarce.  Vancouver's main objective was to clear cap space this off-season so they could try and adjust the team composition - they haven't been able to clear cap with Rutherford confirming that it would require to add futures.

 

It's been talked about by a few insiders that the Canucks were willing to move Myers if their price was met. Myers (and Pearson for that matter) isn't one of the "bad contracts that we would have to trade futures to get rid of". That would be Poolman / Dickinson / Ferland.

[mll]

41 minutes ago, coryberg said:

It's been talked about by a few insiders that the Canucks were willing to move Myers if their price was met. Myers (and Pearson for that matter) isn't one of the "bad contracts that we would have to trade futures to get rid of". That would be Poolman / Dickinson / Ferland.

There are conflicting reports on that.  There's not a lot of cap space to go around so it makes harder to trade players and even guys with value aren't getting the returns they would have otherwise.  Seravalli has had to backtrack several of his takes given how little cap space there is to go around. 

 

Salary is not really an issue over cap hit for teams trying to compete.   Arizona likely won't take contracts without an additional asset to help their rebuild - they are tanking.  They are probably on his no trade anyway.

 

[shiznak]

I don’t think a defensemen who is a “trainwreck” in his own end should be logging the 9th most minutes (amongst all defensemen) against elite competitions, last year. His xGA/60 is also better than some of the most prominent defensemen around the league. Hedman, Josi, Burns, Jones, Theodore, Pietrangelo, and Letang all have a worst xGA/60 than Severson, while playing on a defensively brutal team.

 

Finding clips online of his defensive lapses are pretty pointless. Miller is regarded as a good two-way player, but how many times have you seen him turnover the puck in the offensive zone and just give up on the play, without a backcheck?

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, mll said:

There are conflicting reports on that.  There's not a lot of cap space to go around so it makes harder to trade players and even guys with value aren't getting the returns they would have otherwise.  Seravalli has had to backtrack several of his takes given how little cap space there is to go around. 

 

Salary is not really an issue over cap hit for teams trying to compete.   Arizona likely won't take contracts without an additional asset to help their rebuild - they are tanking.  They are probably on his no trade anyway.

 

Arizona seems to be where teams dump their players plus an extra asset to help them in their what seems to be a perpetual rebuild. How Bettman can see Arizona as being a place where a team could flourish is beyond me. Québec has more passionate fans than Arizona does. 

 

With that being said. I can see them taking Myers plus a prospect.

 

[N4ZZY]

48 minutes ago, shiznak said:

I don’t think a defensemen who is a “trainwreck” in his own end should be logging the 9th most minutes (amongst all defensemen) against elite competitions, last year. His xGA/60 is also better than some of the most prominent defensemen around the league. Hedman, Josi, Burns, Jones, Theodore, Pietrangelo, and Letang all have a worst xGA/60 than Severson, while playing on a defensively brutal team.

 

Finding clips online of his defensive lapses are pretty pointless. Miller is regarded as a good two-way player, but how many times have you seen him turnover the puck in the offensive zone and just give up on the play, without a backcheck?

I mean, there have been times where Miller has just given up on backchecking. 

 

[coryberg]

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

Finding clips online of his defensive lapses are pretty pointless.

Watching him play 20 games over the past few years would be a much better indicator... its actually pretty hard to find video clips of defensive lapses, people don't post them to the internet unless it's epic. Try googling Luca Sbisa, you will get big hits and a bunch of goals, you would probably think he is an all star.