THAT needs to be our main Jersey.

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, tas said:

and yet the design professionals they hired in the 60s decided the new logo was better. 

 

I guess it's not unanimous. 

 

I don't think you can assume that. They were hired to create something new by the management/ownership of the time. Doesn't mean they thought it was better. And it's pretty clear which Yankees logo most professional designers refer to as one of the top sports logos in the world. It's not the new one.

 

And who said it was unanimous. What a silly notion. 

 

You guys keep trying to off tangent, goal post move, this. It's not about which logos are current, or that I hate orcas, or that it's unanimous, etc, etc... It's generally well accepted, that professional designers/critics vastly prefer simple, timeless, low frill logo design. Refined, instantly recognizable distillation of your organization. There's literally websites upon websites that you've been given links to, that show that I am simply telling you well accepted design principles. This isn't just my opinion or me blowing smoke. It's not about current logos or orcas. 

 

According to accepted design principles, the SiR logo is our best logo. Whether you like it, prefer the orca, or not. 

 

 

 

 

[tas]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I don't think you can assume that. They were hired to create something new by the management/ownership of the time. Doesn't mean they thought it was better. And it's pretty clear which Yankees logo most professional designers refer to as one of the top sports logos in the world. It's not the new one.

 

And who said it was unanimous. What a silly notion. 

 

You guys keep trying to off tangent, goal post move, this. It's not about which logos are current, or that I hate orcas, or that it's unanimous, etc, etc... It's generally well accepted, that professional designers/critics vastly prefer simple, timeless, low frill logo design. Refined, instantly recognizable distillation of your organization. There's literally websites upon websites that you've been given links to, that show that I am simply telling you well accepted design principles. This isn't just my opinion or me blowing smoke. It's not about current logos or orcas. 

 

According to accepted design principles, the SiR logo is our best logo. Whether you like it, prefer the orca, or not. 

 

 

 

 

the point is that most designers thinking simple is better is irrelevant. who cares? the yankees have kept their "worse" logo in place for 3/4 of a century instead of "the best logo in the world." you referencing these genius design pros is irrelevant for your argument against the orca because. as has been pointed out, there are plenty of examples to the contrary. 

 

at the end of the day, your opinion isn't validated because a lot of design professionals would agree with you, because obviously a lot of other design professionals would disagree with you. you keep presenting your opinion like it's fact because it's backed up by the elite world of design professionals ... well, the flaws in your presentation have been pointed out repeatedly, so maybe stop. 

[aGENT]

14 minutes ago, tas said:

the point is that most designers thinking simple is better is irrelevant. who cares? the yankees have kept their "worse" logo in place for 3/4 of a century instead of "the best logo in the world." you referencing these genius design pros is irrelevant for your argument against the orca because. as has been pointed out, there are plenty of examples to the contrary. 

 

at the end of the day, your opinion isn't validated because a lot of design professionals would agree with you, because obviously a lot of other design professionals would disagree with you. you keep presenting your opinion like it's fact because it's backed up by the elite world of design professionals ... well, the flaws in your presentation have been pointed out repeatedly, so maybe stop. 

Presentation? I'll ready my side show  My flaws?  You guys haven't managed to actually make an argument that wasn't a straw man or goal post movement. Maybe you should stop lol.

 

And yes, that the vast majority of professionals who do this and have spent millions of dollars researching how advertising and design works, sharing my opinion, does in fact validate it.

 

Professional designers, critics, advertising companies etc say one thing, you think another. This is the same level of "thinking" that leads to free-dumb truck convoys 

[tas]

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Presentation? I'll ready my side show  My flaws?  You guys haven't managed to actually make an argument that wasn't a straw man or goal post movement. Maybe you should stop lol.

 

And yes, that the vast majority of professionals who do this and have spent millions of dollars researching how advertising and design works, sharing my opinion, does in fact validate it.

 

Professional designers, critics, advertising companies etc say one thing, you think another. This is the same level of "thinking" that leads to free-dumb truck convoys 

you don't think the yankees might have some insight into the effectiveness of their logos? merch sales etc? don't you think they'd switch their primary back in an instant if their research indicated it would be the smart business decision?

[aGENT]

28 minutes ago, tas said:

you don't think the yankees might have some insight into the effectiveness of their logos? merch sales etc? don't you think they'd switch their primary back in an instant if their research indicated it would be the smart business decision?

They sell a tonne of old logo merch. "Official" or not.

 

Here's a link to their official MLB sales portal.

 

https://www.mlbshop.com/new-york-yankees/t-14881032+z-9318197-555862172

 

The "official" logo is hardly to be found.

Edited March 2, 2022 by aGENT

[tas]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

They sell a tonne of old logo merch. "Official" or not.

 

Here's a link to their official MLB sales portal.

 

https://www.mlbshop.com/new-york-yankees/t-14881032+z-9318197-555862172

 

The "official" logo is hardly to be found.

so why don't they just switch back?

 

likewise, do you really not think aquilini and the canucks have done the research? francesco isn't the type of guy to pass up an easy buck. in fact, I distinctly remember during the gillis era the question of changing the orca coming up and francesco (I think it was him, but could have been gillis or vic de bonis) shooting the idea down pretty thoroughly on the basis of how established the orca is around the world and how recognizable and popular it is internationally.

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, tas said:

so why don't they just switch back?

Not wanting to flip flop, ability to sell both... Maybe ownership is like you two and prefers inferior logos  Who knows.

13 minutes ago, tas said:

 

likewise, do you really not think aquilini and the canucks have done the research? francesco isn't the type of guy to pass up an easy buck. in fact, I distinctly remember during the gillis era the question of changing the orca coming up and francesco (I think it was him, but could have been gillis or vic de bonis) shooting the idea down pretty thoroughly on the basis of how established the orca is around the world and how recognizable and popular it is internationally.

I never said it wasn't popular. Are we back to this again?

 

 

 

 

[tas]

15 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not wanting to flip flop, ability to sell both... Maybe ownership is like you two and prefers inferior logos  Who knows.

I never said it wasn't popular. Are we back to this again?

 

 

 

 

so how are we defining what makes a logo better then? while we're at it, how are we defining simple? at what point does something move from simple to complex?

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, tas said:

so how are we defining what makes a logo better then? while we're at it, how are we defining simple? at what point does something move from simple to complex?

I thought we covered this already? Go back and look at some of those links.

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, tas said:

so how are we defining what makes a logo better then? while we're at it, how are we defining simple? at what point does something move from simple to complex?

The Whalers logo is considered one of the best hockey logo's, as is the Habs, as is CHI and SJ's .... so yes it is hard for us mere mortals to define how simple it needs to be before it's not simple etc.   But overall, the most iconic ones are simple.    Sweden's .... ranked third Trail Smoke Eaters (i bet a lot of people would look at that and go ewwww!   Ray Ferraro should be proud though) also awesome - but that does include the entire uniform as well by The Hockey News top fifty hockey uniforms.   The logo is a big part of that - but not the only part either.    You Mad Bro used the Orca (from a majority owner who wanted to re-brand the team - and even had intentions to move it AND change the actual name to the Orca's!!!!) with the black colours - looked decent enough.   

 

Personally feel we've changed them around enough.   Don't mind the colour changes because it is a new era (getting away from the Sedin ones are fine) but they aren't that good compared to some we've worn before (current ones).    Every team in the league does that (makes changes in their colours over time - usually subtle but keeping in with their original themes for the most part too), the big mistake for us - like the Islanders fisherman friend captain highliner ones - was the Orca/WCE era .... at least we got away from that.    Don't see us changing our logo after the Sedin era.  

 

   But would sure like to see more of the SIR and Skate then a couple games a year.     And really, you never know, if this becomes Millers team - we could see the Skate often at home,  like i've mentioned before Bieksa and his mates asked to wear it - were denied - the players themselves prefer it  - as does the vast majority of fans to this date.    Best way people can show their love is to buy that merchandise and make it a sea  of that at home games.   Owners would respond.    

 

Make the Orca the third jersey....?   Most people i know who've been around for all of them even if your were just in diapers for some of it or older - accept the orca but don't like it as much as any of the previous ones except for the V - but even some of those prefer the V.    The Orca on a poll, after all these years, still doesn't sit well.    At least we know what it feels like to make such a drastic change ... at first it was a little exciting until it dawns on you how bad they are, and you start missing the old ones.     Maybe we don't want other fans to go through that ... to me i'd be stoked if we changed then back to either the SIR or Skate.    But the Orca is like that annoying kid your brother hangs out with that eventually endears enough to except into your collective group.    That's why we keep FIN!  Problem solved.   Only 25% instead of 50% of fans will be unhappy.  The other 25% indifferent.    Bet they'd make a killing in merchandising.   

Edited March 3, 2022 by IBatch

[tas]

10 hours ago, aGENT said:

I thought we covered this already? Go back and look at some of those links.

I'm not talking about the qualities that allegedly make a logo good. how is "goodness" being measured if not by popularity and sales figures?

Edited March 3, 2022 by tas

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, tas said:

I'm not talking about the qualities that allegedly make a logo good. how is "goodness" being measured if not by popularity and sales figures?

Good design can be judged by the qualities that make a good logo. Period.

 

Popularity/sales can be a bit of a mixed bag. Unlike the Yankees, we don't have a (for lack of a better term) "perfect" logo that obviously, overwhelmingly, is most popular. And certainly the performance of the team in the eras those logos were used, has an effect. It's not surprising that the logos worn, the two closest times we were to winning cups, are enshrined in our hearts and minds.

 

Dopamine is a hell of a drug 

 

That the SiR is right there in popularity with those logos, despite the woeful early teams that wore it, should tell you something about its enduring design.

[Westcoasting]

I hate the teeth on the current killer whale but overall I can live with it.

[tas]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Good design can be judged by the qualities that make a good logo. Period.

 

Popularity/sales can be a bit of a mixed bag. Unlike the Yankees, we don't have a (for lack of a better term) "perfect" logo that obviously, overwhelmingly, is most popular. And certainly the performance of the team in the eras those logos were used, has an effect. It's not surprising that the logos worn, the two closest times we were to winning cups, are enshrined in our hearts and minds.

 

Dopamine is a hell of a drug 

 

That the SiR is right there in popularity with those logos, despite the woeful early teams that wore it, should tell you something about its enduring design.

so, ultimately, the perfect logo would be no logo at all? that's the simplest, right? or maybe a simple square or circle with nothing else?

 

deferring to industry design theory for your definition of good instead of real world results seems like flawed methodology. 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, tas said:

so, ultimately, the perfect logo would be no logo at all? that's the simplest, right? or maybe a simple square or circle with nothing else?

 

deferring to industry design theory for your definition of good instead of real world results seems like flawed methodology. 

No way!  I want a triangle.   Or maybe an Octagon - because at least Chuck Norris spirit would get us some ommpff.    Black of  course  .  

Edited March 3, 2022 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

48 minutes ago, IBatch said:

No way!  I want a triangle.   Or maybe an Octagon - because at least Chuck Norris spirit would get us some ommpff.    Black of  course  .  

 

Nah man there is only one Chuck Norris shape.

 

[Tiger-Hearted]

On 2/27/2022 at 8:53 PM, aGENT said:

His poor taste in logos doesn't make him a bad Canuck fan. 

 

That's a seriously odd take

 

I've dealt with him numerous times. There are 2 groups of fans....1. Canucks Hockey supporters and 2. Orca supporters. Baggins is the latter. He claimed many times that the first Canucks jersey he ever bought was the Orca. His take that the "Canucks are not the Stick in Rinks nor the Skates" is beyond stupid and ridiculous.

[tas]

25 minutes ago, Tiger-Hearted said:

His take that the "Canucks are not the Stick in Rinks nor the Skates" is beyond stupid and ridiculous

how is it stupid or ridiculous? it's literally the exact same argument people who dislike the orca use when they say that the team isn't called the vancouver orcas.

[TheNewGM]

Simple = best would be our old giant  V  ...

I like the colors and spaghetti logo cause its what I grew up watching, and I think it looks better.They could modernize it too.  As well as being iconic from the past and having history, and seeing the team turn into something for the first time and be good with Pavel Bure and Linden go to the finals and be 1 goal post away from the cup... so close Gelinas! The orca has history too I suppose.. at least Ill be happy if they continue to use retro Jersey, hopefully more often.

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, tas said:

so, ultimately, the perfect logo would be no logo at all? that's the simplest, right? or maybe a simple square or circle with nothing else?

That's just hyperbolic nonsense.

 

5 hours ago, tas said:

 

deferring to industry design theory for your definition of good instead of real world results seems like flawed methodology. 

I'm "deferring to" (more agreeing with) design theory because it's logical and correct.

 

A logo's entire reason for being is to be an easy to identify, at a quick glance, distilled icon of your organization. Something overwrought, busy, hard to identify etc fails, to varying degrees, at it's main reason for its existence.

 

And the "real world" results show that all three of those Canuck logos have a solid following (for various reasons). Likely, largely, due to none being "ideal" logos like the Yankees are fortunate to have and where their "unofficial" logo is clearly the most popular/best known/easily identifiable.