Next Up - Boeser -- Re-Sign or Trade

[Bure_Pavel]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We can use that extra cap room to take on contracts and add picks.  Or a very good player from a team that needs to clear cap.  JR and PA said we are going to clear cap.  No more straight forward and better way than to let Boeser walk.  

We are past the taking on bad contracts for picks phase, we need good young players. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

We are past the taking on bad contracts for picks phase, we need good young players. 

We've never been at that point because we were always at the cap.  

[Ferlands_Head]

6 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

Seriously.  What happened to Brock?  Watching these highlights its like night and day.  He's playing like he's 35 not 25.  Slow, and missing or flubbing shots. No confidence. He's also the player who passed the puck into Horvats skates to cause the counter rush by the Red Wings resulting in their only and winning goal against us.  He is mostly always the one on the line who caused the turnover, can't win a puck battle.  What happened to our All Star pick who won the MVP prize?  So much promise.

 

Sadly, I just don't see much of a rebound happening. He has steadily declined over a period of time now.  He can still score, but he has to be in the right place at the right time. He doesn't create the scoring chances, he just finishes them....or is supposed to. If he starts even missing those chances, then its time to think about what we could get for him before the rest of the league catches on.

 

Heck ,I don't want to trade Boeser, but because of the past GMs incompetence, We are in a position that we desperately have to find more cap space, and/or find more picks.  So if I had to chose one of the "core" I'd choose Boeser.

My theory is there's a bunch of factors that could've contributed to this.

 

1. Injury (back/wrist) - His shot hasn't been as good as his rookie season (slower release, lower accuracy and velocity) He could yet recover and if his shot comes back look out.

2. Weight Gain - He put on 20lbs since his rookie year and it definitely affects his footspeed which wasn't great to begin with. ( In the clip above you see him walk Strahlman and snipe one, he doesn't have the speed for that anymore )

3. Opponents adjusting to his play style - He definitely has less room out there and hasn't adjusted ( The last goal of that clip shows what he can do to create room for himself to get his shot off.

4. Consistency issue - He's had consistency issues since his college days where he would be dominant one year and mediocre the next, maybe he finds that consistency.

 

One other thing that I noticed is that most of his goals is coming from 5-10 feet of the net ( not necessarily a bad thing)  and not beating goalies from far out like before. 

The coaches also aren't using him in a shooting position but more as a net front presence leads me to believe he's not 100%

[Bure_Pavel]

17 minutes ago, J-P said:

That's debatable as there are lower tiers in FA where the value is better and you could get e.g. 2 players balancing the roster for 6 mil, but I agree FA is not the main purpose of cap space. Cap space puts us into a position to take advantage of other teams.

 

Just as an example - realistic or not - let's say CAR needs to shed cap and are willing to trade Taravainen and Baer for Garland + our newly acquired 4th rounder in 2023. That's a trade you take every day and with cap space we could but now we can't as we can't add the extra 2.5 mil.

There are better ways to free up cap space then letting top players walk for nothing. 

[khay]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

If we could get a first for Boeser don't you think he'd have been traded at this TDL?  His QO kills his value.  He's a guy teams walk from.  Or they trade him for another team's equally bad contract circumstance.  JR and PA said we need to clear cap.  If we have to let Boeser walk v having another bad contract, I am hopeful we chose letting Boeser walk.

And  then I think another team will sign him to 4.5 per.  

We could have totally gotten a 1st at this TDL. Think about it:

 

1. Let's say we retain 50% on Boeser's current cap (2.8 mil).

2. A team that takes Boeser can use him for the playoffs and they can choose to let him walk like they would do with most to be UFA TDL acquisitions (Giroux got Philly Tippet) or negotiate a reasonable contract if Boeser performs well in the playoffs and the team decides to keep him.

 

The way I see it, we chose not to trade him as all we can get back in probably a non-roster player and PA didn't want to take too much away from the roster until the summer.

 

[Alflives]

Just now, Ferlands_Head said:

My theory is there's a bunch of factors that could've contributed to this.

 

1. Injury (back/wrist) - His shot hasn't been as good as his rookie season (slower release, lower accuracy and velocity) He could yet recover and if his shot comes back look out.

2. Weight Gain - He put on 20lbs since his rookie year and it definitely affects his footspeed which wasn't great to begin with. ( In the clip above you see him walk Strahlman and snipe one, he doesn't have the speed for that anymore )

3. Opponents adjusting to his play style - He definitely has less room out there and hasn't adjusted ( The last goal of that clip shows what he can do to create room for himself to get his shot off.

4. Consistency issue - He's had consistency issues since his college days where he would be dominant one year and mediocre the next, maybe he finds that consistency.

 

One other thing that I noticed is that most of his goals is coming from 5-10 feet of the net ( not necessarily a bad thing)  and not beating goalies from far out like before. 

The coaches also aren't using him in a shooting position but more as a net front presence leads me to believe he's not 100%

He got bounced trying to make the right play by Clutterbuck and really got injured.  Then he came back a season later and announced (in a team video) to Bo he gained a bunch of weight and was 206.  He wants to be heavier, and I agree with you @Ferlands_Head that Brock is better at 190 than 210.  But does Brock believe (and accept) that?  If he's not committed to being in phenomenal shape and 190, then we should just let him walk.  He's  not Brett Hull.

[Ferlands_Head]

52 minutes ago, JM_ said:

no GM trades Brock to get Tofu. 

You sure about that? 

 

Most GM's would take TT at 4M than Brock at 7M

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, khay said:

We could have totally gotten a 1st at this TDL. Think about it:

 

1. Let's say we retain 50% on Boeser's current cap (2.8 mil).

2. A team that takes Boeser can use him for the playoffs and they can choose to let him walk like they would do with most to be UFA TDL acquisitions (Giroux got Philly Tippet) or negotiate a reasonable contract if Boeser performs well in the playoffs and the team decides to keep him.

 

The way I see it, we chose not to trade him as all we can get back in probably a non-roster player and PA didn't want to take too much away from the roster until the summer.

 

Yes, that's a very good point.  We should have offered that 50% retention on Brock and Miller.  We lost a big chance to collect much needed future assets this TDL.  Our retool needs to go deeper than I'm sure our owner will accpet.

[Alflives]

Just now, Ferlands_Head said:

You sure about that? 

 

Most GM's would take TT at 4M than Brock at 7M

All gm's would prefer Tofu at 4 over Brock at 4.  Tofu is a much better player.  His offence is close to Brock's and he's way better off pucks. 

[Bure_Pavel]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We've never been at that point because we were always at the cap.  

Its more of a rebuild tool, we didnt really rebuild we "retooled" 

[khay]

28 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol brock have 0 value right now on the trade market until his contract is resolved. no one is going to trade for brock now that he can't be used for the playoff run and have to sign him to a 7.5mil QO. Canucks are either stuck with the QO or take him to arbitration.. i don't see why he would sign a long term when he can sign a 1 year QO and then try again next season and hope for a bounce back since he's still a rfa

This is so grossly incorrect. His 7.5 mil QO doesn't matter $hit to cup contenders.

 

Any playoff team would love to acquire Brock for a low 1st, use him for the playoffs, and just let him walk if they don't like the QO.

 

If you can acquire a 20+ goal rental for 25th or lower overall, you do it if you are at the cusp of winning it all.

 

[J-P]

2 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

There are better ways to free up cap space then letting top players walk for nothing. 

It's not as easy in reality as it might seem...

 

There are only really 3 options with Boeser.

 

1) Let him walk

2) Resign him lower than his QO

3) Arbitration

 

The issue with 3 is that it will get really bad if he doesn't improve as that's an immediate bad contract and hard to trade (not to mention that the arbitration process in itself will likely come at a price).

 

The decision between 1 and 2 is really up to whether you believe Boeser is a good fit going forward and that he will improve at least partially. I personally don't see him as a fit and believe there are too many ifs and buts to make a long term deal plausible. A short term deal will be a disturbance, although it could make a trade to a contender possible. All in all though I'd just rather take the cap space.

[khay]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yes, that's a very good point.  We should have offered that 50% retention on Brock and Miller.  We lost a big chance to collect much needed future assets this TDL.  Our retool needs to go deeper than I'm sure our owner will accpet.

I think merely getting a low 1st for Brock will be a setback rather than expediting a retool.

 

We need wingers. Yes, Brock has faults and we shouldn't re-sign him to a long term, 7+ mil contract. But it serves us better to re-sign him to a good deal for both sides and hoping for him to improve.

 

The best way forward to a quick retool is trading either Miller or Horvat, whichever player that refuses to re-sign a good contract. Maybe both if both want too much money + term.

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by khay

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Ferlands_Head said:

You sure about that? 

 

Most GM's would take TT at 4M than Brock at 7M

Brock isn't at 7m

[Alflives]

Just now, khay said:

This is so grossly incorrect. His 7.5 mil QO doesn't matter $hit to cup contenders.

 

Any playoff team would love to acquire Brock for a low 1st, use him for the playoffs, and just let him walk if they don't like the QO.

 

If you can acquire a 20+ goal rental for 25th or lower overall, you do it if you are at the cusp of winning it all.

 

So Brock as a rental TDL 2023?  That's a super good idea!  We could retain too.  

Okay, I'm on board.  Qualify Brock for one year and then trade his slow (and overweight - IMHAO) ass TDL 2023.  

[Bure_Pavel]

6 minutes ago, khay said:

We could have totally gotten a 1st at this TDL. Think about it:

 

1. Let's say we retain 50% on Boeser's current cap (2.8 mil).

2. A team that takes Boeser can use him for the playoffs and they can choose to let him walk like they would do with most to be UFA TDL acquisitions (Giroux got Philly Tippet) or negotiate a reasonable contract if Boeser performs well in the playoffs and the team decides to keep him.

 

The way I see it, we chose not to trade him as all we can get back in probably a non-roster player and PA didn't want to take too much away from the roster until the summer.

 

I would want way more than a 1st for Boeser, he was top 30 in the whole NHL in scoring last year. 

[khay]

Just now, Alflives said:

So Brock as a rental TDL 2023?  That's a super good idea!  We could retain too.  

Okay, I'm on board.  Qualify Brock for one year and then trade his slow (and overweight - IMHAO) ass TDL 2023.  

Yes, that's an option. But I'd rather him improve and score 30 goals with motivation to hit the UFA market in 2024 or 2025.

[Rabbit]

I would like to trade him, the return is:

i} first round pick;

ii) solid RD;  or

iii) second pick with a young prospect.

[KirkSave]

I hope the coaching staff put Petey and Brock together to see how they play together and can perhaps gel again and get their confidence back as offensive, play driving threats, which they have not been the past 2 seasons.

 

If we can sign Brock for about 6x6 I think that is good term and cap for both sides. And he really needs to work on his skating and becoming explosive. Not sure if that is possible but aside from regaining his lethal shot, his biggest flaw is his lack of speed.

[Ballisticsports.]

5 minutes ago, khay said:

We could have totally gotten a 1st at this TDL. Think about it:

 

1. Let's say we retain 50% on Boeser's current cap (2.8 mil).

2. A team that takes Boeser can use him for the playoffs and they can choose to let him walk like they would do with most to be UFA TDL acquisitions (Giroux got Philly Tippet) or negotiate a reasonable contract if Boeser performs well in the playoffs and the team decides to keep him.

 

The way I see it, we chose not to trade him as all we can get back in probably a non-roster player and PA didn't want to take too much away from the roster until the summer.

 

There will be a lot of unhappy people if we do that

They will always compare him to what he was and not who he is

Doubtful they want to commit long term or top dollars (who still doesn't have the speed and tenacity) for what they are even paying him today

This will be a hard sell moving him, when you have to move a young "star" and retain that much doing so, tells you he is not the star others value what he will earn

Management has a tough sell and decision here