The Contending Window for this team is the next 4 years and planning should be for that period

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

I honestly think it’s going to be a few years before contender status is used...I look at contenders this year and the path they travelled to now.

So aside from the low hanging fruit in TB... Look at how many cracks at the bat it took an equally advantaged Miami team to get to where they were.   If that doesn't look fun - then how about CAR? Very few playoff spots since their final run(s)...a ton missed in a row.   NYR looks to be doing a TB right now - as in a couple bad/down years and then right back to it.   But they haven't won a cup since they beat us either, and really were a lucky team their last final run.   There are so many more teams that struggle for half to a full decade before they come out of it then ones that do what they've done.    If St. Louis didn't get lucky they'd still be the poster boy of just keep trying just keep trying but never really be a top team.   Suppose that gives us some hope.    The league is so big now that teams on average, have to go through a decade of middling to a chance or two - then back to sucking for about the same.    Play-ins need to start becoming a major GM meeting add on.   20/32 teams doesn't sound so bad and isn't.   Especially given parity.   Reduce the season back to 80 games and add a round and let four teams fight for the two wild card spots in each conference.   Seats won't be as empty down there stretch, and massive upsets could become story lines.    GMs shouldn't be so worried about LTIR either.   I'm 100% ok with them going over the cap - teams and fans deserve the best possible product after the regular season.    That's how i feel anyways.    This season was an eye opener for me at least.   And get rid of 3 x 3 OT and the shootout.   If your going to keep them then make ALL games worth 2 points and weight then 2 for an honest 5 x 5 OT win, and if you need the shoot-out then 1.5 for the winner .5 for the loser.   It's a team sport for crying out loud.   Not a skills best on best competition - save that for the all-star game.   

[spook007]

29 minutes ago, IBatch said:

So aside from the low hanging fruit in TB... Look at how many cracks at the bat it took an equally advantaged Miami team to get to where they were.   If that doesn't look fun - then how about CAR? Very few playoff spots since their final run(s)...a ton missed in a row.   NYR looks to be doing a TB right now - as in a couple bad/down years and then right back to it.   But they haven't won a cup since they beat us either, and really were a lucky team their last final run.   There are so many more teams that struggle for half to a full decade before they come out of it then ones that do what they've done.    If St. Louis didn't get lucky they'd still be the poster boy of just keep trying just keep trying but never really be a top team.   Suppose that gives us some hope.    The league is so big now that teams on average, have to go through a decade of middling to a chance or two - then back to sucking for about the same.    Play-ins need to start becoming a major GM meeting add on.   20/32 teams doesn't sound so bad and isn't.   Especially given parity.   Reduce the season back to 80 games and add a round and let four teams fight for the two wild card spots in each conference.   Seats won't be as empty down there stretch, and massive upsets could become story lines.    GMs shouldn't be so worried about LTIR either.   I'm 100% ok with them going over the cap - teams and fans deserve the best possible product after the regular season.    That's how i feel anyways.    This season was an eye opener for me at least.   And get rid of 3 x 3 OT and the shootout.   If your going to keep them then make ALL games worth 2 points and weight then 2 for an honest 5 x 5 OT win, and if you need the shoot-out then 1.5 for the winner .5 for the loser.   It's a team sport for crying out loud.   Not a skills best on best competition - save that for the all-star game.   

Points should be 3 for win 2 for OT win 1 for OTloss and 0 for loss... That's of course if they want to continue this sham...

agree its a nonsense to have play offs team selected on the back of their ability in shoot outs or 3v3...

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Points should be 3 for win 2 for OT win 1 for OTloss and 0 for loss... That's of course if they want to continue this sham...

agree its a nonsense to have play offs team selected on the back of their ability in shoot outs or 3v3...

That's one way to do it but would hate to throw away 100 years plus of stats (not that we haven't already done that since the lockout - especially for goalies)..... Plante and Sawchuk would both likely have 500 plus wins.   Osgood probably 450.     I just think it's time to change it back to ties.   Teams play for the safe point anyways.   And 3 x 3 is just a keep away drill now.    Silly.   Shoot-out is dumb.    Never liked it.   Undue stress on the goalie as well.  IF they need to keep those things - then keep the 2 point system.   Don't weight them the same though.   Penalize teams for going to OT.   So 1.5 for OT win .5 for OT loss.    Would just prefer they got rid of them both personally.   There is nothing wrong with a tie game.   It's a sign of our times - someone has to win, and the loser still gets a ribbon. 

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Points should be 3 for win 2 for OT win 1 for OTloss and 0 for loss... That's of course if they want to continue this sham...

agree its a nonsense to have play offs team selected on the back of their ability in shoot outs or 3v3...

Every year - a few teams in both conferences end up getting screwed out of a team game based on this.   It's completely ridiculous.   Even though this year we are likely on the wrong side of it - i wouldn't care if we were on the right side of it either.   It is a sham.   LA and Dallas are not as good as us.  I'm fine with luck playing into it.    This isn't luck though.   One other thing.   Growing up with 12-16-21-24 teams ...  and most of them making the playoffs, and given the new norm is close to a decade to sort your crap out, on average - it's time to make another change which was what they did with the play-ins.    Reduce the number of games back to 80 ... even 78 if they have too.    League wins.  Fans win.  Players win.   I bet they'd increase revenues by 25% and sustain them.   Hard to keep butts in seats during a rebuild.   Hard to keep butts in some seats once they are out too.    Everyone wins in this scenario. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Corrections.

 

Years 1 to 2 $10m

 

Years 2 to 4 $7.5

 

What freaking 3C is making $6m?? GOOD 3C's make +/-$3.5! Hell, say $4 with inflation or even $4.5 hoping he can play at a middle 6 tweener level still. I'll even round out up to $5 just to illustrate how silly this exercise is.

 

So years 5 to 6 at $5m (and no we absolutely should not be signing him to any longer than 6 years, 4 would be my ideal/preferred, if equally as unrealistic as your numbers here)

 

Grand total of $45m or a $10m to $20m discount on what he can get on the open market... Good luck! Lol

 

I got one for your.  Or close to it.  Stastny was making almost that playing for Vegas as their 3rd C.    Also Tyler Johnson in TB.   Actually think you need to look further.   Quite a few teams invest down the middle.    JT Miller was 5.35 as the 3rd C as well.   Good 3rd line C's make a lot more then plus minus 3.5 ... 5 is not at all silly really.   But yes ... i suppose 3.5 would be great value.   Top paid C's in this league past around 64 are 4.8 million....

Edited April 24, 2022 by IBatch

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Full confession i had a little tiny tingle somewhere in my nether regions that this would finally be the guy to fit with the twins.   Turns out that of course was Burrows - and probably indigestion.   My brain did say "huh" though a few times when LE was our big signing that year.   That was when he was 30.   Wasn't it? 

Yup, same age Miller will be. 

 

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

I got one for your.  Or close to it.  Stastny was making almost that playing for Vegas as their 3rd C.    Also Tyler Johnson in TB.   Actually think you need to look further.   Quite a few teams invest down the middle.    JT Miller was 5.35 as the 3rd C as well.   Good 3rd line C's make a lot more then plus minus 3.5 ... 5 is not at all silly really.   But yes ... i suppose 3.5 would be great value.   Top paid C's in this league past around 64 are 4.8 million....

Top 6 players, who happen to be playing on a 3rd line on ridiculously deep team, aren't really "3C's".

 

[HKSR]

34 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yup, same age Miller will be. 

 

Top 6 players, who happen to be playing on a 3rd line on ridiculously deep team, aren't really "3C's".

 

That's the goal isn't it?  JT Miller on the 3rd line potting 50ish points?  Yes please.

[EddieVedder]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Miller can play left wing on a line with Petey when he's 33.  That could extend his career and keep him as a point a game player until he's 35...

Optimistic. Getzlaf fell well below a ppg pace at 35.  Buf then again, the ducks have had a $&!#ty roster for 3 yrs. 

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Optimistic. Getzlaf fell well below a ppg pace at 35.  Buf then again, the ducks have had a $&!#ty roster for 3 yrs. 

Yes Getzlaf wasn’t playing with a superstar centre like Petey at age 35. 
 

I would argue that Miller and Petey should start playing together starting next year. It doesn’t matter who plays centre. Similar to McDavid and Draisaitl who are both natural centres. 
 

We can trade Boeser for a 3C or just get one in free agency. 
 

Miller and Petey playing together would make for one of the best lines in the NHL. I mean they were playing together as the Lotto Line. All they need is a speedy winger to play with them. Garland could be the guy. Or maybe Kuzmenko. Or Karlsson, or Klimovich. 

[BillfromVan]

On 4/23/2022 at 1:08 AM, deus.ex.makina said:

Garland Miller Podlokzin

Pettersson Horvat Boeser

Pearson xxx Hoglander

Highmore Lammikko Chiasson 

Lockwood

 

OEL Myers

Hughes Schenn

Dermott zzz

Rathbone

 

Demko

Martin

coach Boudreau 

these roster is already good.

 

now add a speedy gifted 3C and a top 4 Def to play with Hughes, using Myers Cap.

 

Hughes zzz 

OEL Dermott

Rathbone Schenn 

get ride of the 2 mistcasts : save 5.1

Poolman 2.5M

Dickinson 2.6M

 

Let them fly : save 1,9M

let Hunt goes. 800k
Let Sutter retires 1.125M

so 7 M to re-sign the following :

sign Miller 8,8 x 5 up 3,6

sign Boeser 6,9 x 5  up 1.1

sign Highmore 1,2 x 2 up 500k

sign Lammikko 1 x 2 up 250k

sign Chiasson 1 x 1 up 250k

Re-signing costs ups: under 6M

 

we still have to sign our 3C and our top4 def, but we should not be that bad cap wise. 

 

Is there not 3 mill for Luongo as well 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

That's the goal isn't it?  JT Miller on the 3rd line potting 50ish points?  Yes please.

Not at $9m. No please.

[HKSR]

21 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not at $9m. No please.

I think this was actually about Miller earning $6m per year in years 6 to 8 of his contract.  

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think this was actually about Miller earning $6m per year in years 6 to 8 of his contract.  

His actual salary is irrelevant. All that matters is his AAV/cap hit. It's either going to be $9m+ and six'ish years or low $8's and 8 years. Both are crap options to be paying our 3C when we should be making our biggest push for a cup.

[HKSR]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

His actual salary is irrelevant. All that matters is his AAV/cap hit. It's either going to be $9m+ and six'ish years or low $8's and 8 years. Both are crap options to be paying our 3C when we should be making our biggest push for a cup.

In your opinion.

 

I view it as a top 6 player playing on the 3rd line because ...you know... depth.

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

In your opinion.

 

I view it as a top 6 player playing on the 3rd line because ...you know... depth.

How many good teams do you see with $9m players on their 3rd line?

[Dannydog]

The style of game that makes miller successful  is definitely not sustainable on the back end of a 5-6 year deal, let alone 6-8.Guys like miller play hard , getting injuries is a gaurantee  and he will be far less effective. Cant compare millers game to the Henriks To be fair to miller he should be traded to a team that is looking to win the cup now. Give them a couple years of prime chances so he can get his name on it. He'd be squandering those prime years here struggling to just make round 1. I love what he brings and is fun as hell to watch but would love to see what wed be worth in trade assets to fill multiple holes on the roster.

[HKSR]

34 minutes ago, aGENT said:

How many good teams do you see with $9m players on their 3rd line?

I don't think Miller will get $9m aav.  I said $8m or so.  It actually didn't happen that long ago that a stanley cup champion had an "anchor" 3rd liner making $8m AAV.

 

Phil Kessel.  3rd line winger in 2017 making $8m.  Equivalent to $8.5 to $9m today.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/6/5/15739808/2017-stanley-cup-final-game-4-projected-lines-penguins-predators-injuries

 

Of course now the age card will come out... because goal posts right?

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I don't think Miller will get $9m aav.  I said $8m or so.  It actually didn't happen that long ago that a stanley cup champion had an "anchor" 3rd liner making $8m AAV.

 

Phil Kessel.  3rd line winger in 2017 making $8m.  Equivalent to $8.5 to $9m today.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/6/5/15739808/2017-stanley-cup-final-game-4-projected-lines-penguins-predators-injuries

 

Of course now the age card will come out... because goal posts right?

Nope. Good for you, your found the one instance.

[BPA]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

I don't think Miller will get $9m aav.  I said $8m or so.  It actually didn't happen that long ago that a stanley cup champion had an "anchor" 3rd liner making $8m AAV.

 

Phil Kessel.  3rd line winger in 2017 making $8m.  Equivalent to $8.5 to $9m today.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/6/5/15739808/2017-stanley-cup-final-game-4-projected-lines-penguins-predators-injuries

 

Of course now the age card will come out... because goal posts right?

Wow.

 

You conveniently omit Game 1, 2, 6 where he was slated to play with Malkin.  Can’t seem to find the lineups for Game 3 and 5.

 

So really, Kessel was a piece that moved up and down the line.  
 

Kessel wasn’t really an “Anchor” during the cup run.  And he was quite productive with the Penguins.  His production fell off a cliff when he got traded to Arizona (at age 31yr old).  He’s 34yr right now making $8M with 49pts.

 

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, Dannydog said:

The style of game that makes miller successful  is definitely not sustainable on the back end of a 5-6 year deal, let alone 6-8.Guys like miller play hard , getting injuries is a gaurantee  and he will be far less effective. Cant compare millers game to the Henriks To be fair to miller he should be traded to a team that is looking to win the cup now. Give them a couple years of prime chances so he can get his name on it. He'd be squandering those prime years here struggling to just make round 1. I love what he brings and is fun as hell to watch but would love to see what wed be worth in trade assets to fill multiple holes on the roster.

Iginla played a much tougher game - as did Roberts,  and well a whole pile of guys that fought often enough too.   Really it's a who knows situation .. Hank and Daniel were good on the boards too, don't really see what Miller does they they didn't also do other then of course he's stronger.   Marleau...Thornton - don't want to just use HHOFers so how about Kunitz?    Miller has proven to be pretty durable.    One thing that he does have is more miles on his body then some given it didn't take long to make it.    There are enough guys out there that played as hard as Miller did that also had 17-20 year careers, not worried about that.   Same could be said for anyone who's contracted until they are 36-37.   I don't think anyones arguing Millers last couple years will likely be anchors - on a six year deal.    The next five certainly the value would be fine. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by IBatch