Jonathan Lekkerimäki | RW

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

the nitpicking of kids this age is getting pretty annoying. These kids are going to need counselling if this continues. 

the pressur eon young players now, on and off the ice, is completely ridiculous

[Captain Canuck #12]

1 hour ago, HighOnHockey said:

 

No, but it hints that most teams felt the same way. And the rankings of NHL teams are far more important than the rankings of media scouting services. An earlier poster seemed to be implying or suggesting that it was the wrong pick because "the rankings said" lol.

All we've seen so far is that the rankings appear to have been accurate.  Will we find out in the future that they were inaccurate?  Maybe, but so far we can only base that on hope.  

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Can I ask someone, how many (in the last decade) of our first round picks or promising picks have battled mono or some other illness or injury within their first year of being drafted?

 

It seems high

[Bure_Pavel]

 

This draft year and earlier scoring in the tournament 

 

1.	Joakim Kemell (RW)	Finland U20	7	4	8	12	1.71	0	4
2.	Connor Bedard (C)	Canada U20	7	4	4	8	1.14	2	9
3.	Jiri Kulich (C)	Czechia U20	7	2	6	8	1.14	0	5
4.	Logan Cooley (C)	USA U20	5	2	4	6	1.20	4	4
5.	Servác Petrovský (C)	Slovakia U20	4	2	1	3	0.75	6	2
6.	Jonas Taibel (C/LW)	Switzerland U20	5	2	1	3	0.60	0	0
7.	Ian Scherzer (C)	Austria U20	4	1	2	3	0.75	0	-1
8.	Jonathan Lekkerimäki (RW)	Sweden U20	7	0	3	3	0.43	0	-1
9.	Matyas Sapovaliv (C)	Czechia U20	7	2	0	2	0.29	0	4
10.	Dalibor Dvorsky (C)	Slovakia U20	4	1	1	2	0.50	0	-5

 

 

Kemell looking like a home run

Edited August 22, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Warhippy]

22 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

 

This draft year and earlier scoring in the tournament 

 

1.	Joakim Kemell (RW)	Finland U20	7	4	8	12	1.71	0	4
2.	Connor Bedard (C)	Canada U20	7	4	4	8	1.14	2	9
3.	Jiri Kulich (C)	Czechia U20	7	2	6	8	1.14	0	5
4.	Logan Cooley (C)	USA U20	5	2	4	6	1.20	4	4
5.	Servác Petrovský (C)	Slovakia U20	4	2	1	3	0.75	6	2
6.	Jonas Taibel (C/LW)	Switzerland U20	5	2	1	3	0.60	0	0
7.	Ian Scherzer (C)	Austria U20	4	1	2	3	0.75	0	-1
8.	Jonathan Lekkerimäki (RW)	Sweden U20	7	0	3	3	0.43	0	-1
9.	Matyas Sapovaliv (C)	Czechia U20	7	2	0	2	0.29	0	4
10.	Dalibor Dvorsky (C)	Slovakia U20	4	1	1	2	0.50	0	-5

 

 

Kemell looking like a home run

Kemmel has nothing on wunderkind Jordan Schroeder though.  I won't even bring up stud Cody Hodgson 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Warhippy

[ronthecivil]

43 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Can I ask someone, how many (in the last decade) of our first round picks or promising picks have battled mono or some other illness or injury within their first year of being drafted?

 

It seems high

Does nobody remember high school?

 

Tons of people in my high school got it!

 

Why would it be different for then? 

 

I guess he still has enough time to rest, recover, and rehydrate so he's ready for hockey season.

[Bure_Pavel]

26 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Kemmel has nothing on wunderkind Jordan Schroeder though.  I won't even bring up stud Cody Hodgson 

I think those were more development, injury, and daddy issues. No reason to assume Kemell will follow suit, he looked impressive in both Liga and WJC. 

[HighOnHockey]

1 hour ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

All we've seen so far is that the rankings appear to have been accurate.  Will we find out in the future that they were inaccurate?  Maybe, but so far we can only base that on hope.  

 

No, there's a lot to base it on besides hope. Basing your assessment on a single tournament or on media rankings would be mistakes. We have last year's Hlinkas, the recent U18s, their play in their respective pro leagues, etc.

 

Maybe I'm a lone voice in the wilderness, but I've preferred Lekkerimaki to Kemell for the better part of the past year. I've been watching Kemell for years going back to YOGs, and Lekkerimaki since Hlinkas. Pretty significant data sets to make assessments from, so you'll have to forgive me if Kemell's spectacular World Juniors performance isn't enough to change my mind.

Edited August 22, 2022 by HighOnHockey

[HighOnHockey]

1 hour ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

All we've seen so far is that the rankings appear to have been accurate.  Will we find out in the future that they were inaccurate?  Maybe, but so far we can only base that on hope.  

 

Just to add to my last post, for myself, already having well-formed opinions of both players, I wasn't watching Kemell at the World Juniors being blown away by his skill. I already knew very well how skilled he was. I was slightly surprised how prominently he was used in the lineup, but considering his performance in their top pro league and that they have a bit of a history of leaning on highly skilled younger players, not too much of a surprise. For me I was watching Kemell to see how much he's improved on the flaws in his game, and I have to admit, I'm definitely seeing a little bit of progress, but he's still the same player he's always been.

 

I dunno, I've always been a big fan of Poile and the Predators for their ability to do things the right way - to maintain a consistently competitive team and to draft and develop players so well without resorting to tanking. I'm hopeful Kemell pans out for them, and if anyone can work out the kinks in a player like Kemell, maybe it's the Preds. What I'm confused about is the animosity around this Kemell - Lekkerimaki debate and how Canucks fans seem to be actively rooting for Kemell over Lekkerimaki.

[Warhippy]

43 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I think those were more development, injury, and daddy issues. No reason to assume Kemell will follow suit, he looked impressive in both Liga and WJC. 

It's a joke.

 

Both had dominant performances at the WJ.  Schroeder had 3 of them in a row.

 

One tournament does not mean player X is better or more successful than player Y.

 

That's all it means.

 

The Canucks drafted those two tournament studs and how'd that turn out for us

[Bure_Pavel]

31 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

 

Just to add to my last post, for myself, already having well-formed opinions of both players, I wasn't watching Kemell at the World Juniors being blown away by his skill. I already knew very well how skilled he was. I was slightly surprised how prominently he was used in the lineup, but considering his performance in their top pro league and that they have a bit of a history of leaning on highly skilled younger players, not too much of a surprise. For me I was watching Kemell to see how much he's improved on the flaws in his game, and I have to admit, I'm definitely seeing a little bit of progress, but he's still the same player he's always been.

 

I dunno, I've always been a big fan of Poile and the Predators for their ability to do things the right way - to maintain a consistently competitive team and to draft and develop players so well without resorting to tanking. I'm hopeful Kemell pans out for them, and if anyone can work out the kinks in a player like Kemell, maybe it's the Preds. What I'm confused about is the animosity around this Kemell - Lekkerimaki debate and how Canucks fans seem to be actively rooting for Kemell over Lekkerimaki.

I had Kemell ranked higher on my final list but they were close, I think they were 7 and 9, both steals where they were picked. Lekkerimaki made more sense as a our pick the fact he was Swedish and our previous success with them in the past, was very happy with the pick. Kemell definitely showing why he was top 5 on some lists prior to his shoulder injury. This is generally a tough tournament for 18 year olds. Slightly disappointed in Lekkerimaki's performance seeing how well he handled to SHL, but is not a big deal in the big picture.So many factors can affect their performance in such a short tournament.  

Edited August 22, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[Diamonds]

Can we stop trying to compare Lekkerimaki to Kemell? This isn't some top 5 pick that we potentially blew. We should just be looking at how he ends up doing compared to expected for his draft position and not comparing him to every possible player we could have taken instead. 

 

Take the 2014 draft for example. Are some Detroit fans mad that they drafted Larkin instead of Pastrnak? Maybe a select few are, but most view Larkin as a steal for a 15th overall pick. Ultimately if Lekkerimaki becomes a bonfide top 6 winger, which there's every indication he could be, he will have been a great pick at 15th overall regardless of what happens with Kemell.

[Bure_Pavel]

36 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Can we stop trying to compare Lekkerimaki to Kemell? This isn't some top 5 pick that we potentially blew. We should just be looking at how he ends up doing compared to expected for his draft position and not comparing him to every possible player we could have taken instead. 

 

Take the 2014 draft for example. Are some Detroit fans mad that they drafted Larkin instead of Pastrnak? Maybe a select few are, but most view Larkin as a steal for a 15th overall pick. Ultimately if Lekkerimaki becomes a bonfide top 6 winger, which there's every indication he could be, he will have been a great pick at 15th overall regardless of what happens with Kemell.

They were both similarly ranked, had very similar situations on draft day, and play the same position. I dont think the comparisons will go away anytime soon, its a good measuring stick when it comes to development.  

[Captain Canuck #12]

9 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Can we stop trying to compare Lekkerimaki to Kemell? This isn't some top 5 pick that we potentially blew. We should just be looking at how he ends up doing compared to expected for his draft position and not comparing him to every possible player we could have taken instead. 

 

Take the 2014 draft for example. Are some Detroit fans mad that they drafted Larkin instead of Pastrnak? Maybe a select few are, but most view Larkin as a steal for a 15th overall pick. Ultimately if Lekkerimaki becomes a bonfide top 6 winger, which there's every indication he could be, he will have been a great pick at 15th overall regardless of what happens with Kemell.

Some Detroit fans may not be mad that they drafted Larkin over Pastrnak, but some Vancouver fans are mad that we drafted Virtanen over Ehlers/Nylander (or Juolevi over Tkachuk).  

 

These irrelevant comparisons aside, what this boils down to is a situation where two similar and highly-ranked prospects both dropped fairly dramatically in the draft.  Allvin had the choice to choose either one and the question was, would he resist the urge to draft the Swede over the more highly-ranked player (in nearly all prospect rankings), or go ahead and choose the Swede.  He chose the Swede, and now some of us Canucks fans are very curious to see if he really knew something that most others didn't know or, once again, just chose the Swede.  It has nothing to do with hating on Lekkerimaki, as waaaay too many CDC'ers have frantically suggested, but everything to do with wanting to see if Allvin actually did the right thing in making his first ever draft selection for this franchise.  As is always the case in these situations, only time will tell.

[hammertime]

10 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Can we stop trying to compare Lekkerimaki to Kemell? This isn't some top 5 pick that we potentially blew. We should just be looking at how he ends up doing compared to expected for his draft position and not comparing him to every possible player we could have taken instead. 

 

Take the 2014 draft for example. Are some Detroit fans mad that they drafted Larkin instead of Pastrnak? Maybe a select few are, but most view Larkin as a steal for a 15th overall pick. Ultimately if Lekkerimaki becomes a bonfide top 6 winger, which there's every indication he could be, he will have been a great pick at 15th overall regardless of what happens with Kemell.

The thing is these are the 2 smallish skilled scoring wingers that went 2 picks apart. They are going to be compared. If you wanted a player like that those were your 2 choices. If you wanted a D Lian Bichsel and Pickering will probably be compared. 

[Diamonds]

4 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Some Detroit fans may not be mad that they drafted Larkin over Pastrnak, but some Vancouver fans are mad that we drafted Virtanen over Ehlers/Nylander (or Juolevi over Tkachuk).  

 

These irrelevant comparisons aside, what this boils down to is a situation where two similar and highly-ranked prospects both dropped fairly dramatically in the draft.  Allvin had the choice to choose either one and the question was, would he resist the urge to draft the Swede over the more highly-ranked player (in nearly all prospect rankings), or go ahead and choose the Swede.  He chose the Swede, and now some of us Canucks fans are very curious to see if he really knew something that most others didn't know or, once again, just chose the Swede.  It has nothing to do with hating on Lekkerimaki, as waaaay too many CDC'ers have frantically suggested, but everything to do with wanting to see if Allvin actually did the right thing in making his first ever draft selection for this franchise.  As is always the case in these situations, only time will tell.

Virtanen is a pretty bad example as he he is a huge bust whose attitude, lack of commitment, and general character issues have led to him being booted out of the NHL. He was just a bad pick at #6 period, it doesn't even really matter who the other options were.

 

I'm not saying that a bunch of people are hating on Lekkerimaki, but it becomes incredibly tiresome coming into this thread hoping to hear some insights on him or hear people's takes on how they thought his first crack at the WJC went and a lot of it is just "omg Kemell was so good" "WHY DIDN'T WE TAKE KEMELL" "does Allvin hate Fins?" (obviously paraphrasing). By all means, if Lekkerimaki is struggling to make the NHL in 5 years and Kemell is a top line player we should complain about the pick. But it's way too early for that at this point in time especially when it looks like both could end up being good players.

[Gawdzukes]

13 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Virtanen is a pretty bad example as he he is a huge bust whose attitude, lack of commitment, and general character issues have led to him being booted out of the NHL. He was just a bad pick at #6 period, it doesn't even really matter who the other options were.

 

I'm not saying that a bunch of people are hating on Lekkerimaki, but it becomes incredibly tiresome coming into this thread hoping to hear some insights on him or hear people's takes on how they thought his first crack at the WJC went and a lot of it is just "omg Kemell was so good" "WHY DIDN'T WE TAKE KEMELL" "does Allvin hate Fins?" (obviously paraphrasing). By all means, if Lekkerimaki is struggling to make the NHL in 5 years and Kemell is a top line player we should complain about the pick. But it's way too early for that at this point in time especially when it looks like both could end up being good players.

Whiners will be whiners, even if they have no clue what they're talking about.

[Locke Lamora]

I was going to say I was rather underwhelmed with Jon, but factoring in the mono, I’ll just say I was merely whelmed.

[Warhippy]

Can we please for the love of god stop the worry over the WJC teams?  Schroeder lit it up.  Hodgson potted 16 points in the tournament!  How'd they do?

 

Then there's this guy.  the 82/83 WJC team for Canada and he only put up 10 points.  On a team with Yzerman, Tanti, Patrick, Verbeek.  We need to stop allowing one tourney to be the benchmark here people.  Seriously.