2023 NHL Entry Draft

[Devron]

All this talk about height but I didn’t finish growing until I was 20 grew almost 3 inches from High school 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Devron said:

All this talk about height but I didn’t finish growing until I was 20 grew almost 3 inches from High school 

Yup. We need to consider the runway of development for the guys we pick. And that runway includes physical growth and maturity. Benson is clearly bigger now than a while back. He’s still growing. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, chon derry said:

@NuckLuck19 your getting along with everybody just fine. Can’t wait til deb meets you , cheers. 

I quite like @NuckLuck19, not sure why the other guy flipped out but we all have those moments. 

 

anyways back to the draft 

 

[I.Am.Ironman]

9 hours ago, KyGuy123 said:

I know what their goal is, but how are they going to ice the lineup they want with no Cap space and such little high end assets? 

OEL is overpaid by 3 million and is signed for another 4 seasons. You can't replace a player better than him at lesser value (when considering buyout cost) and those 4 seasons are prime years for our core. Waiting simply isn't an option.

 

There is redundancy between Garland, Boeser and Beauvillier. Those 3 players play similar roles and combined take up 16M in cap space. That's a bigger issue imo than 1 overpaid defenseman. If they clear some redundant forward cap, the NHL salary goes up by 1-3M per year, then the OEL contract is easier to manage as long as no other cap mistakes are made.

[Nucker 67]

9 hours ago, Warhippy said:

i feel Sale is possibly not going to make it either

 

9 hours ago, Warhippy said:

1. Fantilli

2. Carlsson

3. Bedard

4. Smith

5. Dvorsky

6. Sale

I'm confused, is Sale a good pick?

 

I really like the discussion on Benson and he confuses me as well. He's so skilled and smart, and from what I heard Button say, that he has this fire in his eyes. I haven't watched enough Benson highlights yet, so I'm only going off what I've seen and read so far. I recently saw an interview with him and Cosentino and Benson was saying how he's been working on getting stronger, and there could be a growth spurt. Benson would be a swing for the fences pick. I would prefer a C or a sure-fire Top 4 D, whoever that might be.  

 

Canucks have a few good, young wingers developing their games:

 

Podkolzin

Hoglander

Karlsson

McDonough

Bains

Lekkerimaki

Klimovich

 

but there's really only one C:

 

Raty

[Warhippy]

45 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

 

I'm confused, is Sale a good pick?

 

I really like the discussion on Benson and he confuses me as well. He's so skilled and smart, and from what I heard Button say, that he has this fire in his eyes. I haven't watched enough Benson highlights yet, so I'm only going off what I've seen and read so far. I recently saw an interview with him and Cosentino and Benson was saying how he's been working on getting stronger, and there could be a growth spurt. Benson would be a swing for the fences pick. I would prefer a C or a sure-fire Top 4 D, whoever that might be.  

 

Canucks have a few good, young wingers developing their games:

 

Podkolzin

Hoglander

Karlsson

McDonough

Bains

Lekkerimaki

Klimovich

 

but there's really only one C:

 

Raty

Yes.  Sale is a good pick.  He has every possible tool in his box to become a quality player if not a star in the league.

 

BUT!

 

And there's a caveat here.

 

He also has all the potential to never pull those tools out of that box to put the puzzle together to be the player he could become.  He is my boom/bust player in this draft and as such I have him pretty high up on my list.  I'd be ok picking him but i'd white knuckle every single update until we saw him put a couple of seasons together and see what he was.

 

To me, he is worth the risk and yes I am on record previously saying I have serious reservations about drafting him because of just those reasons.

[NuckLuck19]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Yup. We need to consider the runway of development for the guys we pick. And that runway includes physical growth and maturity. Benson is clearly bigger now than a while back. He’s still growing. 

Sure but that’s not something I would bet on. He’s also not an elite skater from what I’ve read, just “good”. For a small player you need to be elite. 
 

anyways, I’ve not on the benson train, 

[NuckLuck19]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Yes.  Sale is a good pick.  He has every possible tool in his box to become a quality player if not a star in the league.

 

BUT!

 

And there's a caveat here.

 

He also has all the potential to never pull those tools out of that box to put the puzzle together to be the player he could become.  He is my boom/bust player in this draft and as such I have him pretty high up on my list.  I'd be ok picking him but i'd white knuckle every single update until we saw him put a couple of seasons together and see what he was.

 

To me, he is worth the risk and yes I am on record previously saying I have serious reservations about drafting him because of just those reasons.

I’ve heard his issue is compete. When he decides to compete he’s all world, when he doesn’t he’s invisible. Stay away imho 

[NuckLuck19]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Benson at 5’10 and 180 will be a better player than a lot of bigger players. He has high character, super hyper compete, elite skill and vision, and he’s (likely) the best 200 foot forward of the skilled guys. We need to draft these types of players. If there is a bigger player at 11OA with the same traits then if we should select him. But if not then we take Benson. Always choose BPA. No Benning picks for “need”. Unless need and BPA coincides. 

Not about Benning picks for need, and we need to get past all this Benning stuff, he's no longer the GM making decisions ok?

 

There are some fabulous players at #11 who will still be available who can be top6 / top 4 players in their own right, but who are ALSO big.

 

This isn’t a binary choice, that’s the point. If the Canucks are confident they have a top 6F / top4d with size on the board he’s the BPA because he has less risk of achieving that in the NHL because size does matter. This is about projecting who will have more success at the NHL level and who has the best odds off doing that. I also look at our team and pipeline and realize we don't have alot of Big centers or Big RD, and we do have alot of small wingers, that HAS to be a consideration. You may also want to consider who won the Stanley Cup, and look at their defence, all 6'2" and above and over 210 lbs, there's a correlation there. They've also got a nice mix of sizable forwards.

 

I remember when people were all excited about Hunter Shinkaruk....go look at his stats in junior, quote similar to Benson and 5'10!

 

I am not suggesting "reaching" down the board for a guy ranked 25 because of size, they won’t have to do that 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by NuckLuck19

[CanuckFan1123]

Man people get obsessed with player size. Wasn’t Petey like 155-160 pounds when we drafted him? Guys can still grow and also add muscle at these ages. I’m not saying a guy who’s 5’9 now will be 6’3 in a year but it’s crazy if people are so willing to pass on a prospect or discount their skill over an inch or two or twenty to thirty pounds. 
 

Let the expert scouts do their jobs and let’s just be excited that the draft day is getting closer and closer. 

[Pure961089]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

 

I'm confused, is Sale a good pick?

 

I really like the discussion on Benson and he confuses me as well. He's so skilled and smart, and from what I heard Button say, that he has this fire in his eyes. I haven't watched enough Benson highlights yet, so I'm only going off what I've seen and read so far. I recently saw an interview with him and Cosentino and Benson was saying how he's been working on getting stronger, and there could be a growth spurt. Benson would be a swing for the fences pick. I would prefer a C or a sure-fire Top 4 D, whoever that might be.  

 

Canucks have a few good, young wingers developing their games:

 

Podkolzin

Hoglander

Karlsson

McDonough

Bains

Lekkerimaki

Klimovich

 

but there's really only one C:

 

Raty

Yeah we really need centre depth I hope Dvorsky or Moore drop to us but I'd take Reinbacher if he's available because he's a rare payer. We have lots of wingers.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

OEL is overpaid by 3 million and is signed for another 4 seasons. You can't replace a player better than him at lesser value (when considering buyout cost) and those 4 seasons are prime years for our core. Waiting simply isn't an option.

 

There is redundancy between Garland, Boeser and Beauvillier. Those 3 players play similar roles and combined take up 16M in cap space. That's a bigger issue imo than 1 overpaid defenseman. If they clear some redundant forward cap, the NHL salary goes up by 1-3M per year, then the OEL contract is easier to manage as long as no other cap mistakes are made.

I really do believe that OEL provided 6 million in value two years ago. Last year he was deployed as the number 1 shutdown dman again while not being fully healthy and struggled a lot. 

 

The worst part of the whole OEL acquisition is the fit with Quinn. Neither guy is a defensive dman that can PK, they've just been asking OEL to do that due to our situation. If we asked Quinn to do the same he'd look much worst and be very frustrated too. 

 

D-Petey is the perfect type of a dman that we need more of. I would put money on Allvin using a 3rd and a 4th to move back into 2nd round, but I hope that we use up a lot of our top half picks on d-men. 

Jurmo, Johansson, and the rest of our d-men prospects are more offensive guys. Kirill Kudryatsev is looking like a young Tanev clone to me but lacks size. 

 

I cannot wait for the draft! 

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

Man people get obsessed with player size. Wasn’t Petey like 155-160 pounds when we drafted him? Guys can still grow and also add muscle at these ages. I’m not saying a guy who’s 5’9 now will be 6’3 in a year but it’s crazy if people are so willing to pass on a prospect or discount their skill over an inch or two or twenty to thirty pounds. 
 

Let the expert scouts do their jobs and let’s just be excited that the draft day is getting closer and closer. 

That's actually an interesting discussion all its own.  regarding prospect/player fitness.

 

Here in NA we prioritize a heavy gym and fitness routine.  These kids from age 13 are actually in gyms and killing it.  They are absolute monsters.  They have fitness programs while playing and fitness programs while in school plus personal training sessions or gym sessions almost daily.

 

In Europe and international markets, that prioritization is not there.  They do not slave away for fitness at young ages.  If you look at many European prospects post draft, they actually tend to gain more weight and in fact have more successive growth patterns in height and weight increases once they make the NA markets.  Why?  Because they do not have that day in day out mentality of life in a gym.

 

Essentially, kids from Europe tend to put on more weight and height and tend to be naturally strong vs gym strong whereas NA kids are trained from essentially age 12.

 

I can not recall where this discussion was had but it was in the last 2 years or so and it was a brilliant back and forth about how NA kids are basically tiny tanks vs European kids which is why we see so many skinny kids being drafted from europe.  Honestly, if I can find the thread or article but if I can I will post it immediately.

[Bure_Pavel]

13 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Idk why so many people are so worried about cap space

 

We have a bit of a crunch this year but our roster is basically all filled out. As of next year, and continuing onwards, cap drops off our books very quickly. Beauviller, Myers, Pearson all drop off after this year - 14 million dollars. 3 to Petey and 3 to Hronek still leaves 8 million for a defenseman to replace Myers and a 3C. 

 

We don't have much inefficient money past 2024-2025. In fact, the inefficient money we do have is offset by nice discounts on Hughes & Demko

 

Horvat was a good pick, no disagreement from me there.

 

But boy would it have been nice to have got Caufield (ultimate boom/bust) instead of the safe Podkolzin. 

I made this comment earlier as well, but the top teams in the NHL are not made up of a majority of drafted talent. A byproduct of the cap era is that teams are forced to let serviceable players go, often for free (see us giving up Tanev, Toffoli, Markstrom, and more) in order to make the cap work. So the best strategy for the draft is to acquire players that you think are likely to be very hard to get down the road through trade and UFA. What kinds of players are those? 30-40 goal scorers, 1st line players, top pair defensemen, etc. Petey was a major boom/bust pick. I seem to recall a lot of people wanting Glass instead (right hand center, big, etc etc.) Thank god we went for Petey instead. 

 

The one thing this team has lacked for the the last 10 years patience. We could have waited one more year but decided to give up the 9th overall pick instead. They squandered Petey's bridge deal though, should have just signed him to 8 years off the bat, like every other team does with their young star players. 

[R3aL]

12 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The one thing this team has lacked for the the last 10 years patience. We could have waited one more year but decided to give up the 9th overall pick instead. They squandered Petey's bridge deal though, should have just signed him to 8 years off the bat, like every other team does with their young star players. 

Imagine the Canuck nation reaction if he signed big then had that down year / start to year. It is what it is let’s be happy we have a super star. 
 

if we sign him this year he could still provide surplus value with cap rising and the fact he could get even better 

[Smashian Kassian]

Benson is not Shinkaruk. Benson plays a full 200ft & reads the game exceptionally, hes more than a flashy scorer he has star potential. Players Cristall & even Perreault are closer to Shinkaruk. 

 

You dont have to want Benson, but it's not a good comp.

[Bure_Pavel]

7 minutes ago, R3aL said:

Imagine the Canuck nation reaction if he signed big then had that down year / start to year. It is what it is let’s be happy we have a super star. 
 

if we sign him this year he could still provide surplus value with cap rising and the fact he could get even better 

Yeah but thats the whole point of those contracts is they are over paid in the first few years, they adequately paid in the middle, and under paid at the end of the contract while player is in their prime and team is ready to compete for a cup. If the cap rises these deals almost always turn out to be a steal for the team's front office. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Bure_Pavel

[Nucker 67]

Biggest BOOM-BUST players?

 

1. Michkov - he'll be gone

2. Benson - he could be gone

3. Sale

4. Sandin Pellikka

5. Cristall

6. Gulyeyev

 

Thinking the Canucks will take the SAFE pick

 

1. Barlow

2. Moore

3. Danielson

4. Wood

5. Reinbacher

6. Willander

[spook007]

2 hours ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

Man people get obsessed with player size. Wasn’t Petey like 155-160 pounds when we drafted him? Guys can still grow and also add muscle at these ages. I’m not saying a guy who’s 5’9 now will be 6’3 in a year but it’s crazy if people are so willing to pass on a prospect or discount their skill over an inch or two or twenty to thirty pounds. 
 

Let the expert scouts do their jobs and let’s just be excited that the draft day is getting closer and closer. 

Its not that people get obsessed with size... more like people get obsessed with no size...

Petey was skinny but 6'2 and room to grow... If we get into the playoffs, do we really want Petey to fight his own battles? Who's gonna make the opposition wear out?

We ought to have learnt something at least from the previous years...

 

Anyway the Club is spending millions and have management team with enough CS rings to light up a room, so I'm sure they know better than anyone, how to built a team.

Edited June 15, 2023 by spook007

[Devron]

21 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The one thing this team has lacked for the the last 10 years patience. We could have waited one more year but decided to give up the 9th overall pick instead. They squandered Petey's bridge deal though, should have just signed him to 8 years off the bat, like every other team does with their young star players. 

I still like it. I gives us an extra 3 years of UFA at which point Petey should still be crushing it