[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Philadelphia Flyers | Oct. 15, 2022

[Coconuts]

Just now, Alflives said:

Tampa won their last two Cups with only Hedman as a D (in their top 7) that they drafted.  Rest were either free agent signings or traded for.  We drafted Hughes.  OEL was a good get.  We need to trade for another top four guy.  Bo is an excellent trade chip.  

Sure, and that somehow negates the importance of drafting and developing our own D how exactly? Don't throw out an unusually dominant team as a token example when they absolutely weren't the norm as far as teams go. 

 

They almost had three cups in a row, that is not a team that is anything resembling normal. 

[Alflives]

Just now, Coconuts said:

Sure, and that somehow negates the importance of drafting and developing our own D how exactly? Don't throw out an unusually dominant team as a token example when they absolutely weren't the norm as far as teams go. 

 

They almost had three cups in a row, that is not a team that is anything resembling normal. 

True.  And yes we need to be better drafting D.  But lots of teams fill out their D via trade or UFA signings.  

[Attila Umbrus]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

A number of  players have  been on the wrong side of the puck, most have not been burned by it-yet.

It is early yet, but time is ticking away, they best get this fixed, fast.

 

Kind of why I question an 'optional' skate tomorrow.   Way too early, imo for a rest day, especially with the way the games have gone so far.

It’s part of the NHLPA agreement, so many off days, optional skates, etc. I think they are pre determined for each team before the season starts. That being said, who shows up for optional skate tomorrow could say a lot of who wants to win more than others…but hard to judge in that fact alone cause you never know what kind of small injuries guys have. Hopefully they get a good turn out tmrw so they can keep working the kinks out.

[chon derry]

4 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

I tend to disagree, the preseason games were lost for different reasons.  Mainly due to the fact that alot of the players playing were never going to be on the NHL roster.

This is what I’ve been saying all along   And now the teams been picked at the very end of preseason  and had these same regular players had some playing time earlier  getting some familiarity with one another…………. But we had to argue about it.  

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

Ya, I would probably take a flyer on a higher rated RD.  Maybe they would if they didn't trade away draft picks.  Who knows.  That's why they get paid the big bucks to make those decisions.  Not me.

I'm just a strong advocate of drafting D high, folks keep going on and on about how we need to give up assets for the D drafted and developed by other teams when we should be drafting and properly developing our own D. The draft is the best place to get them, teams don't trade their top D more often than not. 

[Nucker 67]

Robot Bo needs to go, he shows no emotion as a captain, doesn't dislike losing enough. Same old passive, easy to play against Canucks. That needs to change, so why not the guy who's been with VAN the longest through the losing years and wears the C? Whatever Bo is captaining, it isn't working. 

 

1. Trade Bo

2. Go back to the "skate" uniforms

[Alflives]

Just now, Coconuts said:

I'm just a strong advocate of drafting D high, folks keep going on and on about how we need to give up assets for the D drafted and developed by other teams when we should be drafting and properly developing our own D. The draft is the best place to get them, teams don't trade their top D more often than not. 

Benning (and the new guys) trade away too many picks, especially in rounds two/three.  A lot of very good D come out of those two rounds.  

[Viper007]

1 minute ago, chon derry said:

This is what I’ve been saying all along   And now the teams been picked at the very end of preseason  and had these same regular players had some playing time earlier  getting some familiarity with one another…………. But we had to argue about it.  

The PP during the preseason looked awesome.  The PP during the regular season, not so much.  That is the main reason we have lost these first 2 games.  I see no correlation between preseason and regular season.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

True.  And yes we need to be better drafting D.  But lots of teams fill out their D via trade or UFA signings.  

That's the crux of my frustration though, that seems to be how we do things and has been for a very long time. 

 

If we hadn't drafted a D like Hughes in the first round we simply wouldn't have one, the draft is where you're most likely to get those top D. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the name Dobson mentioned since the beginning of the summer, teams draft guys like that and do not let them go unless they're absolutely sure they can't be retained. 

 

Filling out your D via UFA via trade isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if it's your go to strategy for like fifteen years or more because management groups don't draft D in the 1st or 2nd rounds very often it's an issue. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's the crux of my frustration though, that seems to be how we do things and has been for a very long time. 

 

If we hadn't drafted a D like Hughes in the first round we simply wouldn't have one, the draft is where you're most likely to get those top D. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the name Dobson mentioned since the beginning of the summer, teams draft guys like that and do not let them go unless they're absolutely sure they can't be retained. 

 

Filling out your D via UFA via trade isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if it's your go to strategy for like fifteen years or more because management groups don't draft D in the 1st or 2nd rounds very often it's an issue. 

Then we need to stop trading away picks and collect them instead.  If we do trade a guy like Garland let’s get back two seconds and use them.  Boeser too.  Get picks and use them.  Although Colorado got the perfect partner (Toews) for Makar via trade - two seconds.  

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Then we need to stop trading away picks and collect them instead.  If we do trade a guy like Garland let’s get back two seconds and use them.  Boeser too.  Get picks and use them.  Although Colorado got the perfect partner (Toews) for Makar via trade - two seconds.  

Yes, absolutely. I'm totally on board with keeping picks, I wasn't a fan of seeing one shipped out to dump a short term headache (who could have possible bounced back) in Dickinson. 

 

We need to be willing to move out assets instead of losing them for nothing, if Horvat can't be signed to a reasonable deal he'll be traded. It's why we moved Motte, he didn't like what he was offered so we got something for him. 

 

Sometimes moving picks works out okay, but past management groups have been far too willing to move out top picks like you mentioned. We do not have either the prospect or organizational depth to continue shipping out picks like we have. Trades are hard to make, every team would like to acquire a D like Colorado did and have it work out. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Coconuts

[Bad_BOI_pete]

19 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

And yet Canucks fans gripe about a lack of top 4 D and seem to constantly covet those drafted and developed by other teams, all while rooting for a franchise that doesn't seem to put much emphasis on drafting D where you're most likely to get said top D. 

 

Sometimes you've got to take a flyer on D with your top 2 picks, we historically haven't done that and it's probably not a coincidence the last guy who turned out to be a top 4D prior to Hughes was Edler.

 

We need to be willing to draft D high period, regardless of whether they're an RD or not. 

I think it's a bad idea to draft D when your in win now mode unless they are BPA. they take so long to develop our window might be closed before they even play a game for us that a schenn like player couldnt do just as good.

[Disgruntler]

Being an Ottawa born lad, they’ve always been my second. Maybe it’s time.

[Hairy Kneel]

5 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Myers and Mikayev are a big part of that plus some new faces being put in that role. At least there’s a bit of an excuse there.

 

The powerplay on the other hand has no excuse. That’s a ton of skill there that should have no reason to struggle.

How King survived the coaching turnover I’ll never understand. The entire coaching staff needed to be let go (minus Clark). I don’t see what having someone Bruce wasn’t part of hiring accomplishes. The same issues that plagued us before are still there.

 

Can we just get Hank to run the powerplay when they’re at home? At least he knows what makes a powerplay successful. Seems like the first unit just cycles through the same three plays again and again and struggle against any pressure from the opposing pk.

 

Let HANK run the PP already

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Petey_BOI said:

I think it's a bad idea to draft D when your in win now mode unless they are BPA. they take so long to develop our window might be closed before they even play a game for us that a schenn like player couldnt do just as good.

That's a fair argument, my counterargument is that I don't view us as being in win now mode. Even before Miller was extended I'd been bullish throughout the summer that I think we're at least for years out from contending. I also question whether this current aged core group of Miller, Horvat, OEL, Myers, ect have what it takes. It may very well be that we don't really contend til Pettersson and Hughes are the vets, we just don't know.

 

I advocated for trading Miller and building around the young core in Pettersson, Hughes, and Podz while keeping Demko. I argued we could be competitive without Miller and I still believe we could have been. 

 

D may take longer, but a team always needs D regardless of where they're at in their cycle. If you draft and develop one and suddenly you've got a surplus of D you've got a nice trade asset. Most teams don't have the luxury of such a surplus though. 

[Hairy Kneel]

We've got one play on the PP

The Bumper Play

That's it.

Let HANK FIX IT.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

16 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I'm just a strong advocate of drafting D high, folks keep going on and on about how we need to give up assets for the D drafted and developed by other teams when we should be drafting and properly developing our own D. The draft is the best place to get them, teams don't trade their top D more often than not. 

Unless they are BPA its probably wise to pass on those D, Other than goalie's d man take the longest to develop. I think picking BPA is always the right choice in the first round. in the second round and beyond is where you can pick positional draft picks.

[Gurn]

 

I'd like to see them draft any d man, in every round that is within 5 slots of our pick. 

Ie we have pick number 8- I'd draft any d man that Bobby Mackenzie has rated down to number 13.

D is critical, and damn hard to find/sign/ trade for.

I'd much rather have plenty of good d men, and use them to trade for other positions, than try trading  FOR d men.

[J.I.A.H.N]

42 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I'm just a strong advocate of drafting D high, folks keep going on and on about how we need to give up assets for the D drafted and developed by other teams when we should be drafting and properly developing our own D. The draft is the best place to get them, teams don't trade their top D more often than not. 

Totally agree with you Coco. But I am drawn to teams like LA who have used 1st and 2nd at nauseum to pick Dmen, while still being able to pick a gambit of forwards as well.

 

How do they do this? LOL.......................IMO, proper fall to the bottom rebuilds, where they trade away players for picks.................

 

I am sorry, but this is the same old $hit that has been said for years by some (me) on here................a proper fall to the bottom "Tank"..............

 

We are far past that now, but that is how it is done. 

[Cromeslab]

Should of gone full tank?Its a viable question maybe we put ourselves in a good position for Bedard.