[PGT] New Jersey Devils at Vancouver Canucks | Nov. 01, 2022

[chon derry]

2 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

Everyone is doing everything they can… but none of them are doing it together.

A team searching for an identity  paralleled by tonites mng choice of jerseys not knowing what this floundering ship should look like. It s a mess. 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Very very good point about avoiding players from top teams. 
would honestly rather we just trade for futures at this point 

 

embrace the tank 

We need to flip the switch somewhat on our thinking.   It's the players that actually have value, that need to go.   Those are the ones teams likely are interested in.   So far looks like we sh!t the bed with Millers signing.   Early yet to panic ... Duchene and Skinner both took a little time to gain traction too.   But it's valid to be concerned even with cap going up and his cap percentage palatable.   Horvat is that guy right now. If it doesn't hurt, it's not the right trade. 

 

Trading to gain cap space for me is also worrisome.   Because will the guy(s) we sign actually be of any better value?   Miller was an awesome trade though.  We need more trades like that as well. 

 

Ideally they pull it together and manage to "re-tool" on the fly, or re-set the rebuild as i like to call it, because we really didn't bottom out long enough. 

 

Hope our fanbase has the patience for that, i think it does finally.   It certainly didn't have it during JBs tenure though.   JBs actions were less disjointed then this forum, and that's telling.    Hansen said only 3 guys are safe ... I don't think any of these guys should be.   Would trade EP, QHs, Demko, and Horvat if it helped us.     And maybe that's exactly what we need to do.   Burn it to the ground, the same way OTT and TO did. 

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

82 wasn't a fluke.That showed what a great coach can do.

 

Problem was the GM didn't know what he had and traded good players for bums.

Milford drafted better then any GM we've had to date.   Rick Vaive ... whoops!  Problem was also McCarthy was injured.   

[IBatch]

21 minutes ago, chon derry said:

Trust me at 63.yrs old I’ve sadly  witnessed the whole thing 

[dougieL]

51 minutes ago, Tank4Bedard said:

Makes me also wonder if there was a conflict of interest in terms of opinion. Perhaps the Sedins were friends with OEL and yenno pumped his tires 

That is one of the many aspects of the trade I really disliked.

[whcanuck]

5 hours ago, Qwags said:

2-6-2 is a good record right? Like that's a record you expect after a decade of being bad?

We’re quickly becoming the Detroit Lions or Chicago Bears of the NHL

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

wat?

 

i'm not dissing the franchise, im dissing the city. I live in edmonton and edmonton sucks

Been there once.   Have family that lives there, but only visit them in the Okanagon or Kootenays lol...won't do the trip again.   Did enjoy the shooting gallery at the mall though ... as in buying ammo and shooting various pistols.  You haven't lived until you've tried to shoot a .44 magnum with one hand, Dirty Hairy style.    And those 9mm's, can see why in the movies gangsters can shoot those pea shooters on its side rapid fire without aiming too lol.   It's fun to drive out of though too, as in away from the city somewhere else.   Anywhere really. 

 

Edit:  CAL isn't too bad.   At least you have the battle of Alberta to enjoy again. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by IBatch

[Elias Pettersson]

Canucks record after 10 games last year under Green:

 

4-5-1

 

Canucks record after 10 games this year under Boudreau:

 

2-6-2

 

Oh boy...

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

2 hours ago, VanCan2023 said:

Remember...Bedard is not, nor will ever be McDavid. No cup in Edmonton, a lesser version will not guarantee success here either. 

huh? you can literally say the same about any player/situation. 

 

Mackinnon is also pretty much a lesser version of McDavid, but he's won a cup.

Also, the Oilers don't look too far off (if we look at how close they came to the final last year) from contending for one in the near future. 

 

Bedard, like Mackinnon is a gamebreaker. Bedard is probably even better than Mackinnon.

We don't have any game breakers on this team that can actually take over a game offensively in the calibre of a Mackinnon or McDavid. 

 

I used to think it was Petey, and sure, he thinks the game at a high level, but he's simply not strong enough, nor quick enough... in general is lacking the dynamic physical attributes to consistently be able to put up 90 - 100+ points per season.

I think he's a 70-80 ppg elite player consistently (which is still pretty great).

If you keep an already young Petey around and add an even younger, better player like Bedard, you're set at least offensively for the next decade.

You also have key pieces like Hughes and (maybe) Rathbone on your defence so you have a bit of a foundation there too. 

 

It gives you clarity on how to build up and who you can continue to build around.

 

"No success is guaranteed". Well yeah, that's obvious. However, this team has literally never even had a chance to try it.

 

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Canucks record after 10 games last year under Green:

 

4-5-1

 

Canucks record after 10 games this year under Boudreau:

 

2-6-2

 

Oh boy...

And at least Green had these guys playing well 5 x 5... the longer this goes on, the more Green's reputation recovers.    Not many guys didn't put a full effort in either under Green.   Sure he also had bad stretches, but aside from the end, and this happened every year with Green, he managed to turn it around eventually.   Bruce hasn't had to deal with they until now...

Edited November 2, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

huh? you can literally say the same about any player/situation. 

 

Mackinnon is also pretty much a lesser version of McDavid, but he's won a cup.

Also, the Oilers don't look too far off (if we look at how close they came to the final last year) from contending for one in the near future. 

 

Bedard, like Mackinnon is a gamebreaker. Bedard is probably even better than Mackinnon.

We don't have any game breakers on this team that can actually take over a game offensively in the calibre of a Mackinnon or McDavid. 

 

I used to think it was Petey, and sure, he thinks the game at a high level, but he's simply not strong enough, nor quick enough... in general is lacking the dynamic physical attributes to consistently be able to put up 90 - 100+ points per season.

I think he's a 70-80 ppg elite player consistently (which is still pretty great).

If you keep an already young Petey around and add an even younger, better player like Bedard, you're set at least offensively for the next decade.

You also have key pieces like Hughes and (maybe) Rathbone on your defence so you have a bit of a foundation there too. 

 

It gives you clarity on how to build up and who you can continue to build around.

 

"No success is guaranteed". Well yeah, that's obvious. However, this team has literally never even had a chance to try it.

 

Bure and Mogilny.   Not even the peak Sedins we're that good.   And they did it in a tougher, meaner era, when obstruction was used tactically league wide.    

[spook007]

5 hours ago, EmilyM said:

Would you honestly take Miller and his extension if you were a GM of any NHL team right now?

Bingo.... 

 

This mess won't be easy to clean up.

[spook007]

6 hours ago, Pickly said:

At this point might as well go full send and gut it. Make the best hockey trades you can and gather as many picks and prospects as you can gather. That includes every single player on this roster and there is nobody not named. This core is dysfunctional and it’s been long enough to warrant that it isn’t going to work. 

If they go down that route, agree...

Nobody should be safe...

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Bingo.... 

 

This mess won't be easy to clean up.

Needs some awfully savy GMing.   OEL and Miller aren't terrible anchors, and could be good support vets depending on how the rest is dealt with.  He's also still putting up the points, five goals and nine points in 10 games.    Actually i think teams would be interested in him despite his poor start.   It's a manageable cap hit, and he's very versatile.     Sure rather have him at 8 x 7, then Tavares at 11.5 etc.   

 

Horvat is a rental...that should get about what Miller could have without a contract - a first rounder, grade A prospect and a roster player back that doesn't move the needle but helps the trading partners cap work.    

 

There is a path where we can deliberately tank, and the turn the corner quickly.   To me that starts with a Boeser trade.   Guy deserves a fresh start on a different team, and if you want to look at it pure stat wise - he's not much different then what Duchene was doing points and goals per game anyways.   Or Reinhardt in Buffalo.   Brock and Horvat is the low hanging fruit.   We could retain on Brock and it wouldn't matter that much too.   Because we won't be in a position to contend during his current deal anyways.  One million ought to make him more appealing.   

 

It's truly too bad OJ didn't work out.  Like Ohlund or Edler did.   He was supposed to have the highest floor of any D that draft,  turns out that floor wasn't quite good enough even as a bottom pairing guy.   

 

QHs is another guy i'd be up for trading, same with Demko.   Goaltending is a fickle position,  COL needs a goalie, we need a young top for D ... COL cycle is way ahead of ours, trading Demko for one of their goalies, plus Byram back and something to even out the cap...id do that.   Not sure COL would, but it is their biggest question mark right now, they might do Rathbone and Demko, for Byram plus cap back.    

 

QHs already said i'd trade him for Dobson.  Not sure NYI would though.  Anyways, we need to do something.    Maybe it starts with a hockey trade.   And goes from there. 

[OldFaithfulCap]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

The Canucks best run of playoffs was 1989-1996...each year was different.  One of the best series ever was 1989 against an all-time top team in CAL.   That team ranked in the top ten, higher then the Detroit teams in the 90's/early 2000's.    Despite only winning one cup, CAL was a contender year in, year out for almost a decade, because they had to build a team that could beat EDM.   They were still a contender in 1994.    Linden was part of that 1989 team as a rookie...things could have been different if Otto didn't kick it in, it's not often that the Stanley Cup final is played in the first round, that year it was.    Then Quin did his magic, and changed the core on the fly.   The lockout year screwed our follow up, but we did win a round against a very good team...we played 13 series over that time period, and beat some very good teams.   TO was also a contender the year we went to the final ... St. Louis, CAL, WNP... and that teams key players were all so young still in 94. Linden,  Ronning, Bure,  Gelinas, McLean ... sure we also had solid blue chip vets.   Craven was a solid support  on those great 80's PHI teams, that couldn't beat EDM (although came close one year, if Kerr wasn't out, they probably win instead) ... Adams, Courtnall etc ... Burrows actually reminded me of Courtnall a little.    And to a man, those guys stepped it up come the post season. 

 

Gretzky really wanted to play with us, we were his first choice because he could see the young core ... listed Gelinas, Bure, Linden in his book.   What could have been ... instead he almost beat PHI and sent the NYR to the final again ... Both Lindros scoring a hat trick in the same game was something that year (97 i think).   What could have been right! 

 

Adding Mogilny ... and the Bure's knees and contract stuff...really we should have had two guys scoring over 100 points and 110 goals total ... instead it wasn't meant to be.    

 

That team was good enough to parlay into both the WCE era team and the Sedin one.    Jovo was the closest thing we've ever had to a complete number one defenseman, bittersweet, the sweet is only because Bure's career ended 5-7 years before it should have.   Took me until the 2002 Olympics to start enjoying Jovo really ... In 98 Bure set a record with 9 goals ... and he played with a fractured hand in 2002.    Bure best hockey was in Florida, became a Hart like player. 

 

Anyways....this team was mostly decent to great from 1989-2014, and top of the heap league wide from 2000-2015... even with a couple down years in the mix.   

           Overall

91-92  4th 96  1st in division

92-93  7th 101    1st in division 

 

02-03 7th  104 2 in division (COL 1)

03-04 7th   101  1st in division 

 

Above seasons pre-lockout ... add 10 points and that's close to what it could look like today. 

 

09  7th  100  1st

10  5th   103 1st

11  1st    117 1st

12  1st    111  1st

13   8th    59  1st  (Lockout)

15   8th   101 2nd 

 

Adding some context.  Linden's club records for playoff games played and points likely stands for a long time yet.   Even almost done, playing in the bottom

six, with no PP time, he was our best forward in that epic Luongo vs Turco series.    Our best regular season team was the Sedins hands down ... our best playoff team (aside from 91-93 years when we were also a great regular season team) for sure was the Linden era as well...that team was built for the second season, not the first.

 

I used to comment on how lucky fans who started watching this team in the early WCE era.    Our record before 1991-92 was pure tragedy.   I included 1989 because even today folks remember Otto kicking it in.   Still is one of the best series since then (any teams).    I don't anymore - they've started to endure what the rest of us old timers have. 

 

The first 20 years were tough for sure.  Same with the last 8 years.    And of course the Keenan years as well.   That said Linden-Sedin circa 2015...so 89-15, almost half our history, it was actually pretty good. 

Jovo was maddening as hell at times though. Great hitter, fighter, great shot but he could be a turnover machine in van. Still hard to argue that he wasn't the highest ceiling dman. Having ohlund next him in key moments offset his flaws though and they were the best pairing we have iced in recent years. I always liked ohlund's consistency but he was not explosive like jovocop was.

 

I really think the wce years were underrated. That team was exciting, fun and if they had anyone but clouts they could have gone further. 

 

 

[J-23]

7 hours ago, Mustard Tiger said:

We need to be all over Columbus in need of a center. We have one peaking. They have not scored a powerplay goal. Bo is everything they need

 

Max value

Need a 1st round pick coming back.

Edited November 2, 2022 by J-23

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, OldFaithfulCap said:

Jovo was maddening as hell at times though. Great hitter, fighter, great shot but he could be a turnover machine in van. Still hard to argue that he wasn't the highest ceiling dman. Having ohlund next him in key moments offset his flaws though and they were the best pairing we have iced in recent years. I always liked ohlund's consistency but he was not explosive like jovocop was.

 

I really think the wce years were underrated. That team was exciting, fun and if they had anyone but clouts they could have gone further. 

 

 

Goaltending for sure was an issue.   Regular season it was decent though ... post season Cloutier just couldn't  do it, worst save percentage all-time of any goalie ever to play 25 or more playoff games.    Melted down.    

 

Secondary scoring was also an issue.  The Sedins just couldn't play in the dead puck era.  

As for Jovo, more then half his career he got Norris votes and rightly so, several times he was pretty high too (both with us and PHX)...one of six Canadian players to get ice time in 2002, and set up the game winning goal (Sakic)....also part of 2006 team but was injured so didn't play.   Wouldn't go so far as to say he was a turnover machine but yes, like Miller, he tried to do too much and when it worked it was glorious, when it didn't (often enough) it wasn't.   He did have the "IT" factor that i like though.   

 

Crazy but true, Jovo seemed undersized after the D we iced before him.   QHs?  Never thought i'd see that ever.   Phil Housley was a very very special talent ... Chelios was like Bieksa but better (small D with tons of fire) ... Rafalski and Campbell are the only other guys close to as tiny as QHs, but QHs takes the cake.    He's got a competitive spirit for picking that position for sure.   I'm still not sold though.   Waiting for that one hit that takes him out. 

 

Edit:  I do think it's fair for the HHOF to make some adjustments to the guys that played in the dead puck era.  That's 95 to the lockout.    Naslund was something, and he did that in the deepest, darkest part of that era.  They did induct Kariya and rightly so.   

Edited November 2, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, J-23 said:

Need a 1st overall pick coming back.

If you want a first overall pick, you have to put yourself in a position to get it.    If we can't win now,  what would our chances be like if we traded Horvat plus plus?  Better for sure. 

[J-23]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

If you want a first overall pick, you have to put yourself in a position to get it.    If we can't win now,  what would our chances be like if we traded Horvat plus plus?  Better for sure. 

My bad, meant 1sr rounder. 1st overall is nice as well.

[J-23]

6 hours ago, Devron said:

I won’t accept anything less. What a fk up. Why Miller why. I was on the fence about what to do with him. Then we signed him. I was quite happy. I thought what’s the next move. Then nothing happened. Are we stuck with Miller and trading Horvat. What a crap move 

Why do you want to re-sign Bo?

 

This team needs a rebuild. If this really is 2003 draft 2.0 this year, Bo and Miller should both be moved. Obviously going to be very hard to move Miller. Load up on picks. Kuz has been exceptional, maybe you can squeeze out a 1st from a contender, he is cheap af.