BigTramFan Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: I think Bo brings more both now and in the last 3 years of a contract compared to JT. Significantly more. We will see. Two different players. We are talking 4 and 5 years from now respectively. In the last 3 years of their contracts JT will be 35-37 years old and Bo will be 34-36 years old (assuming he is signed for 8 years). Glad you are able to predict the future and know who will bring more at those ages. I have explained why I think Miller's decline will be less impactful than Horvat's decline. Haven't heard any reasons why Horvat's decline less than Miller's at the same age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said: With simply the kids in the system and what's hopefully a top 5 pick this year.. KUZ-EP-MIK 23'1st-BO-McDonough Karlsson/Hogs-???-Podz Joshua-Aman-Lockwood I really belive in AM. I would like to give him / karlsson / podz real offensive opportunity. The problem would be this doesn't really fix our need for defensive fwds unless that 3c is a godsend lol. I'm also not super convinced hogs will be a mainstay either but simply going off who's in the system right now. 3 years from now we are probably looking at adding lekki as well... The only player with any real experience there is Bo. You need vets whether you are rebuilding or not. Not sure why this gets overlooked by so many ppl here. Without veteran leadership on the ice you end up like the pre mcdavid oilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, EddieVedder said: Yuppers. Been sayin it for 2 yrs. Cant have 2 undersized defensive liabilities in your 6 And Quinn to NJ could completely turn the tide of a retool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 21 minutes ago, spook007 said: Yes we may see two big pieces at least come back and hopefully more... However was that not the same with Miller? I do agree and expect a great haul if Bo leaves. He is amongst the leagues best scorers now, and very good at FO's... but we never know for sure, what tomorrow brings. We should have just moved Miller at the TDL, But I also don't think he's valueless right now. Tons of teams who loved their long term vets would take him on IMO. The most concerning this is we never ever have gained high value nor even sold when players are peaking ( in my time anyways ). I want to remain ultra optimistic we can do it but zero proof that we are even considering to or that we will get the value we all hope for haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: We will see. Two different players. We are talking 4 and 5 years from now respectively. In the last 3 years of their contracts JT will be 35-37 years old and Bo will be 34-36 years old (assuming he is signed for 8 years). Glad you are able to predict the future and know who will bring more at those ages. I have explained why I think Miller's decline will be less impactful than Horvat's decline. Haven't heard any reasons why Horvat's decline less than Miller's at the same age. Pretty simple last 3 years of the deal Bo will be younger and closer to his prime still while JT will be further from his. Bo has more tools in and near his prime. It is really that simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 18 minutes ago, stawns said: One of the most prolific scorers in the league, captain, one of the most prolific face off guys in the league. You think there's someone to replace that in this org? What does that do for us? We miss the playoffs, We have the worst PK, We blown leads like never before seen in league history. He does alot of good, But why do we keep investing into guys who are leaders in this losing culture. This is a retirement contract coming up. How well does that work out for us ever? Plenty of situations where I keep Bo, But two main fwds who have to go inorder for me to keep him is Boeser and Miller. I'm not on board with alot of our fanbase with this whole keep doing the same thing over and over while expecting the results to change randomly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 21 minutes ago, stawns said: Also currently one of the most prolific goal scorers in the league........on top of being one of the top face off guys Solid 2 way player. Zero drama. Good canadian kid. Plays the pk. Deadly on the pp. Needs to stay. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 Just now, Mustard Tiger said: What does that do for us? We miss the playoffs, We have the worst PK, We blown leads like never before seen in league history. He does alot of good, But why do we keep investing into guys who are leaders in this losing culture. This is a retirement contract coming up. How well does that work out for us ever? Plenty of situations where I keep Bo, But two main fwds who have to go inorder for me to keep him is Boeser and Miller. I'm not on board with alot of our fanbase with this whole keep doing the same thing over and over while expecting the results to change randomly With their new contracts do Miller and Boeser have trade value? Maybe Miller still does, but Boeser would be a hard sell. Likely he only returns an equally ugly contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, EddieVedder said: The only player with any real experience there is Bo. You need vets whether you are rebuilding or not. Not sure why this gets overlooked by so many ppl here. Without veteran leadership on the ice you end up like the pre mcdavid oilers. It's been a 3 year plan as per JRs words when he got here. If we sell this year, NOBODY should be expecting playoffs next year. After next season most the dead weight falls off and we have sooo much cap to surround these kids with the vets needed to ascend and take the next step. This and next season should be all about adding young depth via prospects and picks for our near future success 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Pretty simple last 3 years of the deal Bo will be younger and closer to his prime still while JT will be further from his. Bo has more tools in and near his prime. It is really that simple. It will only be 1 year difference in their age in the last 3 years of their contracts. I don't expect either of them to be great at age 35-37 (Miller) or 34-36 (Horvat). But my point is when Horvat's speed is gone, he doesn't have much else in the tool box apart from faceoffs. Miller has similar face off ability, plus he has a much better passing game and can play a physical game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 1 minute ago, BigTramFan said: It will only be 1 year difference in their age in the last 3 years of their contracts. I don't expect either of them to be great at age 35-37 (Miller) or 34-36 (Horvat). But my point is when Horvat's speed is gone, he doesn't have much else in the tool box apart from faceoffs. Miller has similar face off ability, plus he has a much better passing game and can play a physical game too. Bo gets faster each year and his conditioning is off the charts. He will still have wheels in his 30s. If guys like pavelski can score into their late 30s, theres no reason why Bo cant. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said: What does that do for us? We miss the playoffs, We have the worst PK, We blown leads like never before seen in league history. He does alot of good, But why do we keep investing into guys who are leaders in this losing culture. This is a retirement contract coming up. How well does that work out for us ever? Plenty of situations where I keep Bo, But two main fwds who have to go inorder for me to keep him is Boeser and Miller. I'm not on board with alot of our fanbase with this whole keep doing the same thing over and over while expecting the results to change randomly Because there's a good core of players in there that just needs the right depth players and a little time to mature. But, what there isn't is a guy like bo who can score, win faceoffs and provide leadership. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: With their new contracts do Miller and Boeser have trade value? Maybe Miller still does, but Boeser would be a hard sell. Likely he only returns an equally ugly contract. Boeser I really doubt. His value would probably be another boeser like contract in return which isn't really worth it. Miller I'd like to believe any of the teams who love vets with term would be willing to take him on. Cap aside those teams IMO are : pens isles wash nash But I'm just a fan on a fan board who knows nothing... Just playing the hopeful and hypothetical game with everyone haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, EddieVedder said: Bo gets faster each year and his conditioning is off the charts. He will still have wheels in his 30s. If guys like pavelski can score into their late 30s, theres no reason why Bo cant. There's "no reason" why any players can't be like Pavelski. It's just that 99% of NHL players suffer age related decline despite their efforts to overcome it. And it is extremely unlikely Horvat (or Miller) will continue to be as productive as Pavelski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 1 minute ago, Mustard Tiger said: Boeser I really doubt. His value would probably be another boeser like contract in return which isn't really worth it. Miller I'd like to believe any of the teams who love vets with term would be willing to take him on. Cap aside those teams IMO are : pens isles wash nash But I'm just a fan on a fan board who knows nothing... Just playing the hopeful and hypothetical game with everyone haha I wonder if Lou Lam would do Pulock straight up for Miller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberts Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) Hey everyone, be sure to check this featured thread If you have a moment! We only have today and tomorrow left for votes! Edited November 6, 2022 by Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, stawns said: Because there's a good core of players in there that just needs the right depth players and a little time to mature. But, what there isn't is a guy like bo who can score, win faceoffs and provide leadership. Again, what has all that done for us since he got here? We arnt going to play this game that BO plays zero roll in anything negative about this team and its simply on everyone else to get better lol. We have probably the worst culture in the league, Biggest lack of leadership out of any team. How? LOOK at our historic rate of blowing 3rd periods where the LEADER admits to having his tail stuck between his legs when the same starts to fall apart. I understand the love for him, But he players a massive role in WHY we are in the position we are. All while peaking offensively in a contract year heading into his retirement contract. Everything points to sell high... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 1 hour ago, stawns said: I'd certainly rather pay it to bo for the entirety of his prime years and maybe a year or two of just coming out of his prime over a year or two of miller's prime and 5-6 years of his decline Exactly, smart decisions using the brain and not the heart need to be made, and should have been made in the summer. Bo is a full two years younger and definitely would have been cheaper had we prioritized him this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knucklehd Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 If we can trade Miller without retaining salary, we take it and run like the old Ikea commercial... "start the car!!" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: I wonder if Lou Lam would do Pulock straight up for Miller? Prior to the season when I was very hopefull we would look even a little different then a total disaster defensively... I would try to do that. But that ship sailed for me. 1 player isn't going to fix the world's worst PK and the total 3rd period collapse. Focus should be weaponizing cap space + young assets for the roster / future trade pieces. It will align with our 3 year plan alot better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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