Baggins Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 37 minutes ago, Alflives said: Benning wanted Glass. If not for Linden stepping in, we wouldn’t have Petey. Benning would have done his Virtanen and OJ (I’m a great scout) pick. And fans would have been mighty happy with that pick. I don't buy Virtanen was Bennings pick and never have. He was new here and Boston was drafting nowhere near top 10. I think it was the scouting staff wanted Virtanen. That always elusive power forward. Several of those scouts were replaced that offseason and Bracket promoted. It's easy to say "bad picks Benning" and "good picks anybody else" but the truth is we'll never know with any certainty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFaithfulCap Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 7 hours ago, RolexSub said: Was curious if any teams in the NHL sitting 3rd and worse has won the lottery with the 1st pick before? i wondered the same thing a few weeks back, seems that Philadelphia was the biggest jump from 13th to 2nd. More details in that thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 51 minutes ago, Alflives said: Good point about the Skille and Barker misses high in the draft. But the Hawks had lots of second and third rounders during that time. And they had some hits in those rounds that covered for those high pick misses. Something Benning couldn’t understand. A team needs a lot of second and third rounders because some of their high firsts will miss. I didn't have a problem with Benning trading for young guys with potential at all. We needed some youth on the team and Gillis left nothing on the farm to draw from. Draft pick are no more proven than good young Ahl'ers. Neither comes with guarantees. The only real difference is waiting 3-5 years to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Baggins said: I didn't have a problem with Benning trading for young guys with potential at all. We needed some youth on the team and Gillis left nothing on the farm to draw from. Draft pick are no more proven than good young Ahl'ers. Neither comes with guarantees. The only real difference is waiting 3-5 years to find out. Gillis had a club that was close to a Cup. It was his job to sell the farm in hopes to win. Benning followed the same strategy, but had a crappy club. It made zero sense for him to trade futures for hopefuls like Vey, Bear, etc. He was trying to speed up the process. And it was clearly a fool’s mistake. Benning was BY FAR the worst GM we ever had. And it’s not arguable that Gi.lis was the GM (and President) during our most successful years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, Alflives said: Gillis had a club that was close to a Cup. It was his job to sell the farm in hopes to win. Benning followed the same strategy, but had a crappy club. It made zero sense for him to trade futures for hopefuls like Vey, Bear, etc. He was trying to speed up the process. And it was clearly a fool’s mistake. Benning was BY FAR the worst GM we ever had. And it’s not arguable that Gi.lis was the GM (and President) during our most successful years. Blah, blah, blah. One way to remain a contender is scoring draft hits outside the top 20. How many prospects did Gillis trade away that he drafted at trade deadlines? Gillis traded picks for playoff pushes. Good prospects he inherited and most of those were on the team. The farm was emptied through bad drafting. Gillis had picks and scored nothing. My favorite excuse is, Gillis was drafting at the end of rounds. First the Cup champions 1st round pick is before the worst teams "highly valuable" 2nd round pick. Second is the flipside, tankers crying Benning needs to be adding highly valuable draft picks at the deadline! Those are the picks Gillis couldn't score any hits with - later in the round picks. It's nonsense. The bottom line is: no matter where you are drafting you need to score some hits. Whether in the first round or the 7th round, the beginning of a round or the end. You can't go six years with no draft hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 Well today couldn’t have gone much better. Chicago pulls out an unlikely win and Arizona and Columbus had a 3 point game. Ideally it would have been Columbus getting the extra point, but that seems like a greedy ask. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Baggins said: Blah, blah, blah. One way to remain a contender is scoring draft hits outside the top 20. How many prospects did Gillis trade away that he drafted at trade deadlines? Gillis traded picks for playoff pushes. Good prospects he inherited and most of those were on the team. The farm was emptied through bad drafting. Gillis had picks and scored nothing. My favorite excuse is, Gillis was drafting at the end of rounds. First the Cup champions 1st round pick is before the worst teams "highly valuable" 2nd round pick. Second is the flipside, tankers crying Benning needs to be adding highly valuable draft picks at the deadline! Those are the picks Gillis couldn't score any hits with - later in the round picks. It's nonsense. The bottom line is: no matter where you are drafting you need to score some hits. Whether in the first round or the 7th round, the beginning of a round or the end. You can't go six years with no draft hits. Gillis is a 9/10. Benning gets a very generous (because he’s a nice person) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysACanuckFan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 14 minutes ago, Provost said: Well today couldn’t have gone much better. Chicago pulls out an unlikely win and Arizona and Columbus had a 3 point game. Ideally it would have been Columbus getting the extra point, but that seems like a greedy ask. We just need Ducks and Sharks to win tomorrow and go back to our Martin Delia tandem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, Alflives said: Gillis is a 9/10. Benning gets a very generous (because he’s a nice person) Gillis inherited a 9 situation to Bennings 1. In my 60+ years I've never seen a GM inherit a worse situation. Even expansion teams in the 90's got to start with a top draft pick, some younger players worth keeping around, and some middling prospects from farm teams. Benning had Tanev, the only player under 27 worth keeping, and a barren farm team. But that's what happens with seven years of fruitless drafting (the last Nonis draft was a complete bust). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said: We just need Ducks and Sharks to win tomorrow and go back to our Martin Delia tandem I really think this will be the make or break for our tank. If they put Silovs development this season and moral victories over a high pick we’re doomed. If they’re willing to make the necessary move of playing Martin down the stretch we’ll be in a good position. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Baggins said: Gillis inherited a 9 situation to Bennings 1. In my 60+ years I've never seen a GM inherit a worse situation. Even expansion teams in the 90's got to start with a top draft pick, some younger players worth keeping around, and some middling prospects from farm teams. Benning had Tanev, the only player under 27 worth keeping, and a barren farm team. But that's what happens with seven years of fruitless drafting (the last Nonis draft was a complete bust). Benning had a 6th overall pick to work with. He chose a bust. He had a 24th pick to work with. He picked a good player and then traded him for a plug. Benning would have had much more to work with if he knew how to draft and didn’t trade away all his picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysACanuckFan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I really think this will be the make or break for our tank. If they put Silovs development this season and moral victories over a high pick we’re doomed. If they’re willing to make the necessary move of playing Martin down the stretch we’ll be in a good position. If winning was more important they could of called up Silovs alot sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said: If winning was more important they could have called up Silovs alot sooner. Sure and I’m good with him getting some experience. However Abby needs him more than we need late season moral victories. He’s proven he can play at this level. It’s time to send him back down and call up Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Sure and I’m good with him getting some experience. However Abby needs him more than we need late season moral victories. He’s proven he can play at this level. It’s time to send him back down and call up Martin. I don't mind giving Silovs a shot just for this week, preferably against Boston on Saturday to see where he is at then send him down if Demko feels better and sending him down maybe paper transaction before the deadlines if Demko is not ready but I would call up Martin if we need to tank or go with Delia 80% of the time. I don't think Demko will be a world beater as he is getting back into it slowly. I'd rather him shut down for the season just to be safe and his confidence of knowing that he can get back into it with Silvos backing up next season and go with tank mode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolexSub Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 hours ago, OldFaithfulCap said: i wondered the same thing a few weeks back, seems that Philadelphia was the biggest jump from 13th to 2nd. More details in that thread. Wow New Jersey went 5th to 1st....so it can happen for us. I wonder how much Flyers paid Bettman to go from 13th to 2nd lol!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 hours ago, DeNiro said: Benning had a 6th overall pick to work with. He chose a bust. He had a 24th pick to work with. He picked a good player and then traded him for a plug. Benning would have had much more to work with if he knew how to draft and didn’t trade away all his picks. Well he did hit on Brock, and Demko... The OJ pick can be debated until the cows comes in, whether it was injuries or just a bad pick (yes should have taken Tkachuk)... So I think the only really poor pick was Virtanen. Petey and QH were home runs, and despite the 'it was the easy picks' they still had to be made'. And other GMs didn't pick them... Agree 100% Benning would have had far more to work with, if he hadn't traded all his picks for young players, but real question is, was he allowed to sink to the bottom and plainly tank or did FA say no to that? If ever there was a time to tank it was after the Kesler trade. At that stage they should have traded everyone with a heart beat, and gone for top picks instead... Mathews or McD would have looked great in a Canucks sweater... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 11 hours ago, DeNiro said: I really think this will be the make or break for our tank. If they put Silovs development this season and moral victories over a high pick we’re doomed. If they’re willing to make the necessary move of playing Martin down the stretch we’ll be in a good position. The tough part is that the race to the bottom faces the same difficult math as a race to the top. Some of the teams below us will play at a .400 pace the rest of the way out. It is hard to play worse than that for a long stretch. If all goes well (badly) on our end we can maybe play .300 and pick up 5-6 points on them. It just isn’t likely to get right to the bottom. It is possible that a couple of those teams at least play .500 hockey and pass us. Unlike a futile playoff chase, there isn’t a downside of losing this one though. Dropping even two spots is helpful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 59 minutes ago, Provost said: The tough part is that the race to the bottom faces the same difficult math as a race to the top. Some of the teams below us will play at a .400 pace the rest of the way out. It is hard to play worse than that for a long stretch. If all goes well (badly) on our end we can maybe play .300 and pick up 5-6 points on them. It just isn’t likely to get right to the bottom. It is possible that a couple of those teams at least play .500 hockey and pass us. Unlike a futile playoff chase, there isn’t a downside of losing this one though. Dropping even two spots is helpful. I think at best we get to #3 with the odds being poor at that. If we get to #5-6 it is more realistic. It makes a dif how blatant efforts are made to tank by the Canucks and other teams. Makes a dif who gets moved from the bottom feeding teams. Kane leaves the Hawks? Karlsson from SJS? Boeser, Miller, Myers from the Canucks? There could be big changes in the draft rankings from what we see today. My dream is that the Canucks finally kick the voodoo curse from our lottery. We finish #5 but win Bedard in the lottery. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 After that last game, I'm very...nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 The important part is I doubt we get to #22. Everyone seems to be trying to tank now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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