The Canucks would be better off moving Elias Pettersson than Bo Horvat

[J-23]

Best player on team, best 5on5, best PK’er, best PP guy, best playmaker, best goal scorer if he wanted to be.

 

This is Pettersson’s breakout year like Mack. If next year he produces consistently, I don’t think we’ve ever seen a player like this on the Canucks who just dominates in every aspect for the team.

Edited December 26, 2022 by J-23

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, J-23 said:

Best player on team, best 5on5, best PK’er, best PP guy, best playmaker, best goal scorer if he wanted to be.

 

This is Pettersson’s breakout year like Mack. If next year he produces consistently, I don’t think we’ve ever seen a player like this on the Canucks who just dominates in every aspect for the team.

Nah.  Both Sedins, and Mogilny;  but so far it's been pretty good.   Bure too.   At least we can witness some special right now.   Sedins did it twice each.   Kesler's best season was awfully special too.   As far as the actual player goes - EP has a good chance to break records if we keep him for 17 total seasons though.    Find it both silly and encouraging with all the stats that get tracked these days.   Tanti.   Does he even get any street credit anymore?  Or Sundstrom, or Gradin or Adams ... funny how they're naked pop up for the "best starts to the season".     Why don't we just wait before we crown anything.   Bure was named player of the month and week often enough - against some pretty steep competition.    Heck last year Miller was the golden boy and rightly so doing his 27 points in 13 games.    EP could become something very special for sure.   And did start that way - but let's see him string a couple years together before anything is crowned at least. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:45 PM, Ruthervin said:

He is, but again, a few things:

 

1) Pettersson is the only player/asset on the Canucks that will land you an elite top pairing two way RD (ie a young Brent Seabrook type player…..which is far and away the Canucks’ biggest need both short term and long term.
 

2) Even without Pettersson, the Canucks would still be considered strong down the middle with Horvat and Miller.

 

3) The Canucks’ biggest organizational weakness is their structure.  It’s flawed. OEL and Bear are taking on the teams’ toughest match ups when ideally, they should be your 2nd pairing (OEL at this stage might even be a 3rd pairing calibre guy). Luke Schenn, ideally, should be a 3rd pairing guy but he’s playing with Hughes.  If this defensive structure isn’t fixed, then the Canucks are going to be fundamentally flawed for a very long time.  This team could replace Pettersson with Connor McDavid and we’d still be mediocre.

 

4) Getting an elite cost controlled two way RD is likely the most difficult asset to acquire/draft in the NHL. Proof?  Look at our history.  
 

If the Canucks can fix their structure and ultimately have something like

 

xxx-Horvat-xxx

xxx-Miller-xxx

xxx-Decent3rdlineC-xxx

xxx-xxx-xxx

 

Hughes-[PetterssonReturn]
xxx-Bear

OEL-xxx

 

Demko

xxx

 

Then the other pieces can easily be acquired, drafted, signed, etc.  As of right now however, a combination of our defense being too weak + many of our forwards not being “defensively inclined” = our team being fundamentally flawed and being forced to out score it’s problems….which is not a recipe for long term success.

 

What is also flawed, is ranking an elite top pairing RHD ahead of an elite center, which EP is becoming.  I'd take EP over a Brent Seebrook any day of the week.    Also to me this RHD obsession is a bit much.   If you have a strong side it's a strong side - a top level LHD is also fine.   It was Kieth who's going to end up in the HHOF,  QHs is the first guy we've drafted, who has a chance of ending up there too.   Brian Campbell in his prime, was also their best D before Keith took over.   And he was also a pint sized NHL D... controlled the puck in all 3 zones, got Norris votes, and scored at a good rate.   QHs scores at a great rate (and like Keith, won't score a lot of goals) ... and is so freaking young still.  

 

Recipe for long term success, includes keeping some vets, nothing wrong with Horvat and Miller together as a long term line.   Or re-upping Schenn (especially if we do trade Horvat, he's the obvious choice for a captain IMO, although EP isn't far off either if he wants it).    

 

Agree it's not going to be easy to fix our defense.   Wish we could keep Horvat, Miller, EP and do some magic with Brock/Myers ...

Edited December 27, 2022 by IBatch

[Ruthervin]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

What is also flawed, is ranking an elite top pairing RHD ahead of an elite center, which EP is becoming.  I'd take EP over a Brent Seebrook any day of the week.    

Totally agree but you, and most others in this thread, missed my main point unfortunately.  
 

1) Even without Pettersson, the Canucks could still realistically be/become strong up front both short term and long term.  Horvat and Miller as your 1-2 punch at center isn’t ideal, but is still pretty decent.  Now, add in a decent 3rd line C as part of the Pettersson deal (ie Petey+Schenn for Dobson and Pageau) and all of a sudden, your depth down the middle would still be considered pretty solid.  Re-sign Kuzmenko + possible emergences of guys like Podkolzin and Lekkerimaki, and all of a sudden, the Canucks could have a realistic shot of being quite solid up front.  Being a team of depth + rolling four lines as opposed to being too heavy……which leads me to point #2.

 

2) Our defense is completely and utterly f**ked both short term and long term right now.  Other than Rathbone and the other Elias Pettersson, we literally have nothing in the pipeline (Woo still count?).   Hughes cannot carry a top pairing while OEL is barely a #4 defenseman these days (and he was specifically brought in to take on the toughest assignments to alleviate pressure from Hughes).  
 

Long story short, the Canucks’ biggest organizational need right now is a top pairing two way right sided defenseman that can elevate Hughes to the top pairing……and getting this piece is the most difficult piece in the NHL to draft/acquire.

 

Guys like Ethan Bear, Zub, Fabbro, etc. are all decent pieces, but these guys won’t move the needle because they don’t address our biggest need.  Even back in the Summer when radical left fans in Vancouver got excited about acquiring Nik’s Lundquist++ for JT Miller, I just sat back and shook my head because these fans clearly didn’t realize what our biggest need was.  Yes, NL is an RD, but he’s an offensive puck moving RD which doesn’t fulfill our biggest need.  Furthermore, he’s not an elite top pairing calibre guy nor is he projected to become that type of guy.

 

In a romantic fantasy world, trading guys like Horvat, Miller, Boeser, or Garland would fetch you that top pairing two way elite RD but the truth of the matter is that they won’t.  Pettersson is literally the only guy that would fetch you that elite two way top pairing RD (or someone that is projected to be that guy).

 

Hence, my idea of Petey and Schenn for Dobson and Pageau while signing both Horvat and Kuzmenko to long term deals.

 

Future

 

Kuzmenko-Horvat-Podkolzin

Mikheyev-Miller-Hoglander

Pearson-Pageau-Garland

Joshua-Aman-Lazar

 

Hughes-Dobson

OEL-Bear

Burroughs-Whoever

 

Demko

Martin

 

We find a way to move Boeser and Myers for cap space which can allow us to re-sign Horvat and Kuzmenko, plus future RFA’s, etc, like Podkolzin, Hoglander, and Bear.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Ruthervin

[IBatch]

45 minutes ago, Ruthervin said:

Totally agree but you, and most others in this thread, missed my main point unfortunately.  
 

1) Even without Pettersson, the Canucks could still realistically be/become strong up front both short term and long term.  Horvat and Miller as your 1-2 punch at center isn’t ideal, but is still pretty decent.  Now, add in a decent 3rd line C as part of the Pettersson deal (ie Petey+Schenn for Dobson and Pageau) and all of a sudden, your depth down the middle would still be considered pretty solid.  Re-sign Kuzmenko + possible emergences of guys like Podkolzin and Lekkerimaki, and all of a sudden, the Canucks could have a realistic shot of being quite solid up front.  Being a team of depth + rolling four lines as opposed to being too heavy……which leads me to point #2.

 

2) Our defense is completely and utterly f**ked both short term and long term right now.  Other than Rathbone and the other Elias Pettersson, we literally have nothing in the pipeline (Woo still count?).   Hughes cannot carry a top pairing while OEL is barely a #4 defenseman these days (and he was specifically brought in to take on the toughest assignments to alleviate pressure from Hughes).  
 

Long story short, the Canucks’ biggest organizational need right now is a top pairing two way right sided defenseman that can elevate Hughes to the top pairing……and getting this piece is the most difficult piece in the NHL to draft/acquire.

 

Guys like Ethan Bear, Zub, Fabbro, etc. are all decent pieces, but these guys won’t move the needle because they don’t address our biggest need.  Even back in the Summer when radical left fans in Vancouver got excited about acquiring Nik’s Lundquist++ for JT Miller, I just sat back and shook my head because these fans clearly didn’t realize what our biggest need was.  Yes, NL is an RD, but he’s an offensive puck moving RD which doesn’t fulfill our biggest need.  Furthermore, he’s not an elite top pairing calibre guy nor is he projected to become that type of guy.

 

In a romantic fantasy world, trading guys like Horvat, Miller, Boeser, or Garland would fetch you that top pairing two way elite RD but the truth of the matter is that they won’t.  Pettersson is literally the only guy that would fetch you that elite two way top pairing RD (or someone that is projected to be that guy).

 

Hence, my idea of Petey and Schenn for Dobson and Pageau while signing both Horvat and Kuzmenko to long term deals.

 

Future

 

Kuzmenko-Horvat-Podkolzin

Mikheyev-Miller-Hoglander

Pearson-Pageau-Garland

Joshua-Aman-Lazar

 

Hughes-Dobson

OEL-Bear

Burroughs-Whoever

 

Demko

Martin

 

We find a way to move Boeser and Myers for cap space which can allow us to re-sign Horvat and Kuzmenko, plus future RFA’s, etc, like Podkolzin, Hoglander, and Bear.

So we borrow from Peter to pay Paul.   Yes RHDs aren't easy to acquire.   Look at what CHI did to get and pay Seth Jones ... yuck no thanks.    AP in Vegas we'd be paying a couple million more to match that no state tax deal ... Hamilton in NJ.   Get it's going to cost an arm and a leg IF we are lucky enough to get a top pairing RHD via free agency.   And odds are they wouldn't pick us anyways.   We were actually lucky to get Myers lol.   And look at how that's worked out so far.   Mixed bad. 

 

Top line centers as in top 10 are also very very difficult to acquire.   And it appears we already have one doesn't it?    Miller couldn't manage playing center this year.   And his next deal hasn't started, so they put him with Horvat - which is a solid line. 

 

Think you're undervaluing what a top center in this league brings to the table.   And overvaluing RHD's.    Get there is a shortage - 150% of the league is naturally LHD.   Why guys like Dermott and Benn are used to balance bottom pairings, those guys not so hard to get.   Usually those that play both sides end up on their off side on the bottom pairing.     Is Dobson better than EP?  They'd get the better player, pretty certain.    What i would consider, is trading QHs for Dobson,  much easier to find a partner for him, and size still matters come the post season especially.    And wouldn't  cost as much via free agency.    

Edited December 27, 2022 by IBatch

[Ruthervin]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

So we borrow from Peter to pay Paul.   Yes RHDs aren't easy to acquire.   Look at what CHI did to get and pay Seth Jones ... yuck no thanks.    AP in Vegas we'd be paying a couple million more to match that no state tax deal ... Hamilton in NJ.   Get it's going to cost an arm and a leg IF we are lucky enough to get a top pairing RHD via free agency.   And odds are they wouldn't pick us anyways.   We were actually lucky to get Myers lol.   And look at how that's worked out so far.   Mixed bad. 

 

Top line centers as in top 10 are also very very difficult to acquire.   And it appears we already have one doesn't it?    Miller couldn't manage playing center this year.   And his next deal hasn't started, so they put him with Horvat - which is a solid line. 

 

Think you're undervaluing what a top center in this league brings to the table.   And overvaluing RHD's.    Get there is a shortage - 150% of the league is naturally LHD.   Why guys like Dermott and Benn are used to balance bottom pairings, those guys not so hard to get.   Usually those that play both sides end up on their off side on the bottom pairing.     Is Dobson better than EP?  They'd get the better player, pretty certain.    What i would consider, is trading QHs for Dobson,  much easier to find a partner for him, and size still matters come the post season especially.    And wouldn't  cost as much via free agency.    

It’s not about me undervaluing top line centers while overvaluing elite top pairing RD’s.  What I’m trying to say is that the Canucks are so unbelievably f**ked on defense, both short term and long term, that they may have to Atleast consider doing something drastic like my Petey idea.

 

Like it’s to a point where even if we had McDavid and Drai instead of Petey and Bo, we *still* wouldn’t be an elite team due to our god awful defense and team defense.  
 

Yes - losing Petey would be a massive blow, but I still think a lot of those gaps could be filled up front.  Miller not cutting it at center?  Sign a 2nd line C during UFA and move Miller back to the Wing.  
 

Anyway - it’s just a suggestion.  Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love Petey, but trying to win games 5-4 and 6-5 night in night out is not a long term recipe for success.  But hey - if Horvat and/or Miller can land that elusive top pairing RD, then I’ll drive them to the airport myself.

[Elias Pettersson]

16 hours ago, J-23 said:

Best player on team, best 5on5, best PK’er, best PP guy, best playmaker, best goal scorer if he wanted to be.

 

This is Pettersson’s breakout year like Mack. If next year he produces consistently, I don’t think we’ve ever seen a player like this on the Canucks who just dominates in every aspect for the team.

Elias Pettersson will become the greatest player in Vancouver Canucks history.  A 100 point player who will win the Selke and maybe the Art Ross and Hart trophies as well.  McDavid won't dominate forever and he didn't even win the Hart trophy last year anyways, so there is a good chance Petey can take it one of these years.  If we can sign him to an 8 year extension in the summer then he will hopefully be a Canuck for life and will certainly break all of the Canucks scoring records and have his #40 retired and in the rafters.  He will probably be a Hall of Famer as well.

[Elias Pettersson]

15 hours ago, IBatch said:

Nah.  Both Sedins, and Mogilny;  but so far it's been pretty good.   Bure too.   At least we can witness some special right now.   Sedins did it twice each.   Kesler's best season was awfully special too.   As far as the actual player goes - EP has a good chance to break records if we keep him for 17 total seasons though.    Find it both silly and encouraging with all the stats that get tracked these days.   Tanti.   Does he even get any street credit anymore?  Or Sundstrom, or Gradin or Adams ... funny how they're naked pop up for the "best starts to the season".     Why don't we just wait before we crown anything.   Bure was named player of the month and week often enough - against some pretty steep competition.    Heck last year Miller was the golden boy and rightly so doing his 27 points in 13 games.    EP could become something very special for sure.   And did start that way - but let's see him string a couple years together before anything is crowned at least. 

The Sedins, Bure and Mogilny could never play defence like Petey.  Petey is dominate at both ends of the ice.  He's like Kesler on steroids.  He can get to the same level of points as Hank and Bure and also potentially win the Selke as well.  Let's see what happens for sure, but the potential certainly is there to be the most dominant Canucks player of all time...

[Sativika]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

What is also flawed, is ranking an elite top pairing RHD ahead of an elite center, which EP is becoming.  I'd take EP over a Brent Seebrook any day of the week.    Also to me this RHD obsession is a bit much.   If you have a strong side it's a strong side - a top level LHD is also fine.   It was Kieth who's going to end up in the HHOF,  QHs is the first guy we've drafted, who has a chance of ending up there too.   Brian Campbell in his prime, was also their best D before Keith took over.   And he was also a pint sized NHL D... controlled the puck in all 3 zones, got Norris votes, and scored at a good rate.   QHs scores at a great rate (and like Keith, won't score a lot of goals) ... and is so freaking young still.  

 

Recipe for long term success, includes keeping some vets, nothing wrong with Horvat and Miller together as a long term line.   Or re-upping Schenn (especially if we do trade Horvat, he's the obvious choice for a captain IMO, although EP isn't far off either if he wants it).    

 

Agree it's not going to be easy to fix our defense.   Wish we could keep Horvat, Miller, EP and do some magic with Brock/Myers ...

Agree with your comment of a top level LHD is fine. I believe the top d-pairing of Pronger/Niedermayer were both LHD.  

 

As far as Schenn, BoHo, Milsy, Petey.......I'd like to see 'em all as Canucks. Assuming such a scenario of said players still with us, Perhaps we do what the Jets did and abolish a definitive Captain next season. Less pressure on the leadership core. Give 'em all A's and go from there. But who knows what's gonna happen in the next few weeks in the new year.......aroo.......

Go Canucks Go!

 

[DrJockitch]

40 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Sedins, Bure and Mogilny could never play defence like Petey.  Petey is dominate at both ends of the ice.  He's like Kesler on steroids.  He can get to the same level of points as Hank and Bure and also potentially win the Selke as well.  Let's see what happens for sure, but the potential certainly is there to be the most dominant Canucks player of all time...

Mogilny turned himself into an excellent defensive player. Kessler was a better defensive centre than Pettey is now.  Pettey just doesn’t quite have the strength Kessler did yet. 
I think Pettey will go down as best player in organization history but he isn’t there yet, there is also a big caveat that he doesn’t get frustrated by generation after generation of short sited management and decide needs a new home. 

[ToTellTheTruth]

37 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Sedins, Bure and Mogilny could never play defence like Petey.  Petey is dominate at both ends of the ice.  He's like Kesler on steroids.  He can get to the same level of points as Hank and Bure and also potentially win the Selke as well.  Let's see what happens for sure, but the potential certainly is there to be the most dominant Canucks player of all time...

Speaking of Kesler on steroids.

 

Pure speculation but possible I think.

 

Bruce's comment about "player just don't do that" and other things he said.

 

Petey is sick for 6 days and comes back and runs circles around every one.

 

Is it possible that he took an over the counter medication like Advil+? This medication contains Pseudoephedrine as do many other over the counter medications for flu or other aliments.

 

The NHL doesn't do drug testing during the season so anything could be used, they do 60 random player tests of all the players.

 

Just speculation but after Kesler and Lerner's statements about medication abuse in the NHL and combined with Boudreau's apparent surprise that Petey could perform like that, well it is just speculation.

 

And it cannot be refuted because there is no testing done.

 

I am not saying he did anything wrong but it was almost beyond amazing for an athlete coming off 6 days of illness. Superman as Boudreau put it?

[kloubek]

Well, the first assumption here is that there needs to be a full rebuild. I'm not sure there is an appetite for that in our management group and I'm virtually certain ownership isn't interested.

I agree that Petey may not want to stick around through a rebuild. I also agree that our team as a whole isn't very good defensively. Part of that is a substandard defense - which would be well served by getting that top-end defensive player you speak of, but the rest falls on the forwards. Maybe we don't have the right mix of players. Or maybe it's the coaching - though we've been through a couple now with this general lineup and it's gotten worse, not better.

 

So ultimately OP, I think you're on the right track, but it really depends on whether the team will be torn down or not. If not, most of what you said is somewhat moot. Personally, I think they need to dive into the analytics and see which players are costing us games - even if they might be a point producer. My own eye test doesn't seem to jive with stats like Fenwick or Corsi, but visually I feel that Miller, Myers, Pearson are players who tend to give up bonehead goals against, or in the case of Boeser (who I feel is actually not too bad defensively), just doesn't have the jump and tenacity required to be a premier top six forward. There are also a few depth players that haven't looked fully capable, but those kinds of guys are easy to replace.

[hammertime]

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Sedins, Bure and Mogilny could never play defence like Petey.  Petey is dominate at both ends of the ice.  He's like Kesler on steroids.  He can get to the same level of points as Hank and Bure and also potentially win the Selke as well.  Let's see what happens for sure, but the potential certainly is there to be the most dominant Canucks player of all time...

The Sedins were pretty dominant at their peak ... by keeping  the puck in the other zone kind of defensive by default..   Agree Bure used to hang back, same thing Bertuzzi and Naslund did (learned that from Mark Mess, at least while he was with us lol) but the entire complexion of how teams contained him changed too (or tried too), so good they would keep an extra guy back, that makes it a lot easier to defend against pinches (Bure forced teams to keep a guy back), he was also a good puck ragger, and dangerous on the PK.    Bure was unique.   

 

Morrison often was the lone guy back so no debate there, why i didn't bring Naslund up, although he's the only guy we've ever who's had 3 first team all-star selections, and all of them in a row.    Really Kesler set the high bar for any forward i've seen on the team so far defensively, although we've had others too, Peca you could see that was a big part of his game right away.   

 

Kesler was so good back in 2010,  at the Olympics too, best US skater (Miller of course best goalie) and that team had some good players...  EPs having a special season.   Team needs him to keep it up if we have any hope of playoffs this year.    But still hesitate to compare to Mogilny even.   He'd play both sides, and was something too.     Sure can see the work he's been putting into his craft (gym) is working out.    Agree for sure he's got the potential to end up one of the best we've ever had.   Datsyuk... well let's hope so!

[alt kilgore]

On 12/26/2022 at 11:48 AM, DrJockitch said:

Some people have just got the simplistic approach that if I don’t agree with something it is “insert media boogeyman here”.  It is silly, simplistic and reductive and unfortunately working in politics. 
I just don’t think Miller is as good as most on here do, is a winger, not a centre and was the wrong age range to lock up long term for a team that is built around EP. 
He helps put us in this cap mess we are in, will lead to the loss of the more important player in Bo and moves us further and further from being a cup contender. 

 

I take it that the "radical left" are those fans who stand up for the poor, underappreciated left shot defensemen.  Just a guess

 

Anyways, there was a time and a place, actually more than a number of off seasons during the last 8 or 9 years that this team could have and should have started a proper rebuild.  The last was before JR added Boeser, Miller, Mik, traded a second for Stillman. You are right, JR has exacerbated our cap crunch.

 

But that rebuild ship has now sailed.   And if we decided to now start one, the only ship available is a slow vessel with a few holes, and we'd have  to dump  some pretty valuable cargo, even Petey perhaps, if he decides he  doesn't want to stick around for  it.  With no guarantee if we'll hit an iceberg.

 

So with more of a retool in mind, what is  the best way  forward in the present?  I'd love to keep Petey, Hughes, Demko, as well as Miller  and Bo as a stable duo of leadership veterans.  And other younger players, Kuzmenko, Podkolsin, Rathbone, Hoglander.  But it really doesn't seem possible to do even a retool and keep all of them. Someone or someones have to go.

 

IMO Miller is more valuable than Bo. I think too many long term retirement contracts have been dealt out based on a players extra push during his contract season. I just don't trust that Bo will come close to  this seasons output every again. Miller has been much more consistent, and has shown more passion and at times last season, even BB called him the team leader. Bo is a  center, but other than winning faceoffs, he is not a great two way player, and resembles more a scorer, than a puck distributing center.  Miller's role is not that much different.

 

Add to that, that Miller is signed, and Bo  is not.

Add to that, Bo has increased his value to probably even more than we could get for Miller right now, with the two year age difference taken in as well.

Add to that, a point you may not agree with, and thats that IMO Miller's play, and his stock, will not devalue as much as Bo's will. And, maybe this is totally subjective, but I just like the personality better as an influence on the rest of the team. And so is a more valuable piece for team building.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by kilgore

[Zerofaith]

.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Zerofaith

[Zerofaith]

On 12/27/2022 at 3:10 AM, Ruthervin said:

Totally agree but you, and most others in this thread, missed my main point unfortunately.  
 

1) Even without Pettersson, the Canucks could still realistically be/become strong up front both short term and long term.  Horvat and Miller as your 1-2 punch at center isn’t ideal, but is still pretty decent.  Now, add in a decent 3rd line C as part of the Pettersson deal (ie Petey+Schenn for Dobson and Pageau) and all of a sudden, your depth down the middle would still be considered pretty solid.  Re-sign Kuzmenko + possible emergences of guys like Podkolzin and Lekkerimaki, and all of a sudden, the Canucks could have a realistic shot of being quite solid up front.  Being a team of depth + rolling four lines as opposed to being too heavy……which leads me to point #2.

 

2) Our defense is completely and utterly f**ked both short term and long term right now.  Other than Rathbone and the other Elias Pettersson, we literally have nothing in the pipeline (Woo still count?).   Hughes cannot carry a top pairing while OEL is barely a #4 defenseman these days (and he was specifically brought in to take on the toughest assignments to alleviate pressure from Hughes).  
 

Long story short, the Canucks’ biggest organizational need right now is a top pairing two way right sided defenseman that can elevate Hughes to the top pairing……and getting this piece is the most difficult piece in the NHL to draft/acquire.

 

Guys like Ethan Bear, Zub, Fabbro, etc. are all decent pieces, but these guys won’t move the needle because they don’t address our biggest need.  Even back in the Summer when radical left fans in Vancouver got excited about acquiring Nik’s Lundquist++ for JT Miller, I just sat back and shook my head because these fans clearly didn’t realize what our biggest need was.  Yes, NL is an RD, but he’s an offensive puck moving RD which doesn’t fulfill our biggest need.  Furthermore, he’s not an elite top pairing calibre guy nor is he projected to become that type of guy.

 

In a romantic fantasy world, trading guys like Horvat, Miller, Boeser, or Garland would fetch you that top pairing two way elite RD but the truth of the matter is that they won’t.  Pettersson is literally the only guy that would fetch you that elite two way top pairing RD (or someone that is projected to be that guy).

 

Hence, my idea of Petey and Schenn for Dobson and Pageau while signing both Horvat and Kuzmenko to long term deals.

 

Future

 

Kuzmenko-Horvat-Podkolzin

Mikheyev-Miller-Hoglander

Pearson-Pageau-Garland

Joshua-Aman-Lazar

 

Hughes-Dobson

OEL-Bear

Burroughs-Whoever

 

Demko

Martin

 

We find a way to move Boeser and Myers for cap space which can allow us to re-sign Horvat and Kuzmenko, plus future RFA’s, etc, like Podkolzin, Hoglander, and Bear.

[Fred65]

Wiith Dobson, it's a cap win, $4mill/ . With Pageau you get 7 goals, 29 year old, a minus player who is 5'11' who's paid $5mil per seaosn, much like Boeser. We lose Horvat's $5.5 soon ro be $8+  26 goals and quality F/O guy. Really the guy you shold be getting moved is Boeser, no one wants him so ... wiaver wire here we come, He has a $6.6 caphit and scored 6 goals, nice round figure $1 mill per gola

[Ruthervin]

On 12/26/2022 at 1:17 PM, J-23 said:

Best player on team, best 5on5, best PK’er, best PP guy, best playmaker, best goal scorer if he wanted to be.

 

This is Pettersson’s breakout year like Mack. If next year he produces consistently, I don’t think we’ve ever seen a player like this on the Canucks who just dominates in every aspect for the team.

You’re 100% correct but think about this:

 

1) A guy like that - what could he fetch us in terms of grade A elite young players who are in that 20-23 range?  For example, if we’re talking Columbus, wouldn’t we be able to get both Kent Johnson and David Jiricek?

 

2) As awful as the Canucks have been, we’ve seen how even worse they’ve been without Petey in the line-up……meaning, that the Canucks could realistically fall at or close to the bottom of the league without Pettersson which would ultimately mean that we could possibly draft Bedard, Fantilini, etc.

 

So with a Pettersson deal, not only would land some ELITE young players in that 20-23 range (something that Horvat won’t get you), but the loss of Petey would likely drop us at or near the bottom of the standings which would greatly increase our chances of landing a Bedard, Fantilini, etc.

[Petterson649]

On 12/27/2022 at 3:10 AM, Ruthervin said:

Totally agree but you, and most others in this thread, missed my main point unfortunately.  
 

1) Even without Pettersson, the Canucks could still realistically be/become strong up front both short term and long term.  Horvat and Miller as your 1-2 punch at center isn’t ideal, but is still pretty decent.  Now, add in a decent 3rd line C as part of the Pettersson deal (ie Petey+Schenn for Dobson and Pageau) and all of a sudden, your depth down the middle would still be considered pretty solid.  Re-sign Kuzmenko + possible emergences of guys like Podkolzin and Lekkerimaki, and all of a sudden, the Canucks could have a realistic shot of being quite solid up front.  Being a team of depth + rolling four lines as opposed to being too heavy……which leads me to point #2.

 

2) Our defense is completely and utterly f**ked both short term and long term right now.  Other than Rathbone and the other Elias Pettersson, we literally have nothing in the pipeline (Woo still count?).   Hughes cannot carry a top pairing while OEL is barely a #4 defenseman these days (and he was specifically brought in to take on the toughest assignments to alleviate pressure from Hughes).  
 

Long story short, the Canucks’ biggest organizational need right now is a top pairing two way right sided defenseman that can elevate Hughes to the top pairing……and getting this piece is the most difficult piece in the NHL to draft/acquire.

 

Guys like Ethan Bear, Zub, Fabbro, etc. are all decent pieces, but these guys won’t move the needle because they don’t address our biggest need.  Even back in the Summer when radical left fans in Vancouver got excited about acquiring Nik’s Lundquist++ for JT Miller, I just sat back and shook my head because these fans clearly didn’t realize what our biggest need was.  Yes, NL is an RD, but he’s an offensive puck moving RD which doesn’t fulfill our biggest need.  Furthermore, he’s not an elite top pairing calibre guy nor is he projected to become that type of guy.

 

In a romantic fantasy world, trading guys like Horvat, Miller, Boeser, or Garland would fetch you that top pairing two way elite RD but the truth of the matter is that they won’t.  Pettersson is literally the only guy that would fetch you that elite two way top pairing RD (or someone that is projected to be that guy).

 

Hence, my idea of Petey and Schenn for Dobson and Pageau while signing both Horvat and Kuzmenko to long term deals.

 

Future

 

Kuzmenko-Horvat-Podkolzin

Mikheyev-Miller-Hoglander

Pearson-Pageau-Garland

Joshua-Aman-Lazar

 

Hughes-Dobson

OEL-Bear

Burroughs-Whoever

 

Demko

Martin

 

We find a way to move Boeser and Myers for cap space which can allow us to re-sign Horvat and Kuzmenko, plus future RFA’s, etc, like Podkolzin, Hoglander, and Bear.

Hughes is the most overrated player on this Canucks team. I would rather have a number 1 defenseman who can put up 40 points and plays exception defense than our boy Hughes who puts up 80 points but is complete shit at defending and weak af on the boards