24K PureCool Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, stawns said: He hired JR. I agree it turned out to be a bad move, but not like JR doesn't have the resume I honestly wish they'd let the Smyl run this org. I will forgive ownership if they face the music and admit to their mistakes by cleaning house this month. Also fixed that for you. Edited January 15, 2023 by 24K PureCool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Dazzle said: It fits the theme. It's complete incompetence. The team didn't address drafting/development for Gillis' entire tenure. Ok again full stop because that's absolutely not fair. Gillis had one high draft pick. He supplemented a stellar core with the best roll players in the league at the time. It's clear now that he was mandated to continue to push and roll. He had no development program due to the former canucks moose moving to the wolves on a loan program before Utica was created and that destroyed any possibility of a development program. He made efforts to rebuild by all accounts and was trying before he was released. He created practices and programs that have been adopted by the top teams in the league since he won his GM of the year award. Since his release ten years ago this team has had one single honest playoff berth and has less in the tank than when Gillis left.b we gotta stop blaming him because he was the last successful manager this team had regardless of how it happened 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, Provost said: His last year, and the absolute futility set in when he tried to change the team to one with a much more structured defensive system. Literally what JR is saying needs to happen again. Not every roster is capable of playing that way and have success, it would require changing the players https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/safe-is-death-in-the-nhl-and-it-killed-travis-green-4873961 I call bs, every player can play that way. JR does nothing but try to escape any responsibility whatsoever. Green was not a systems coach, though more than BB I guess, but that's a mighty low bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, stawns said: He hired JR. I agree it turned out to be a bad move, but not like JR doesn't have the resume I honestly wish they'd let the twins run this org. After what this org did to Linden not a damned chance 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said: I will forgive ownership if they face the music and admit to their mistakes by cleaning house this month. Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Just now, Warhippy said: After what this org did to Linden not a damned chance What did they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 https://thehockeynews.com/news/former-nhl-star-rick-tocchet-pleads-guilty-to-gambling-charges-1 ...But the worst suspicions were not substantiated. There didn't seem to be mob ties or betting on hockey. No other hockey figures are being charged or will have to testify in a criminal trial. He once took it on the chin for the underbelly of the sports world. Keep this man away from our team. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 6 minutes ago, stawns said: He hired JR. I agree it turned out to be a bad move, but not like JR doesn't have the resume I honestly wish they'd let the twins run this org. No absolutely not! They do that and we’ve gone full Oilers! No more hiring ex player to fill vital roles. Hire the best of the best. The reason we’re in this mess is because JR decided to hire his buddies rather than objectively looking for the best GM available. They need to hire a president who doesn’t just mail it in and can make objective decisions. Until we do that we won’t have success. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: Ok again full stop because that's absolutely not fair. Gillis had one high draft pick. He supplemented a stellar core with the best roll players in the league at the time. It's clear now that he was mandated to continue to push and roll. He had no development program due to the former canucks moose moving to the wolves on a loan program before Utica was created and that destroyed any possibility of a development program. He made efforts to rebuild by all accounts and was trying before he was released. He created practices and programs that have been adopted by the top teams in the league since he won his GM of the year award. Since his release ten years ago this team has had one single honest playoff berth and has less in the tank than when Gillis left.b we gotta stop blaming him because he was the last successful manager this team had regardless of how it happened He was trying to rebuild, nor is there any evidence to support that beyond trading Schneider, which was necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 16 minutes ago, -DLC- said: I don't like 'ol boys clubs. We may not like the ol’ boys’ club but the league and the owners do. These ol’ boys keep getting rehired because the owner’s can trust them to always do their bidding, while protecting their image. Speak out publicly against an owner (like Gillis) and there’s is zero chance to get hired again. The trust is broken. These guys even go so far as to protect one another when there are these vile criminal (abuse) cases. And Tocchet is one “them”, who will protect the brand ahead of doing what’s right. Go back to the success the Gillis teams had. They were amazing. Gillis spoke out publicly about the owner and him disagreeing on what’s the best direction. Even after all his success with our team, he got fired and no other team will hire him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: No absolutely not! They do that and we’ve gone full Oilers! No more hiring ex player to fill vital roles. Hire the best of the best. The reason we’re in this mess is because JR decided to hire his buddies rather than objectively looking for the best GM available. They need to hire a president who doesn’t just mail it in and can make objective decisions. Until we do that we won’t have success. Disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFaithfulCap Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 6 minutes ago, stawns said: He was trying to rebuild, nor is there any evidence to support that beyond trading Schneider, which was necessary Gillis did a radi interview with Scott Rintoul (just before he was fired) and he explained the disagreement in direction between him and the owner. Sat Shaw was producing that show and has talked about that interview several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, DeNiro said: No absolutely not! They do that and we’ve gone full Oilers! No more hiring ex player to fill vital roles. Hire the best of the best. The reason we’re in this mess is because JR decided to hire his buddies rather than objectively looking for the best GM available. They need to hire a president who doesn’t just mail it in and can make objective decisions. Until we do that we won’t have success. Why not just put Smyle in that role? He’s a guy who loves our team and city. I wonder if Smyle knew, when our owner paraded him out to talk to the press after the Benning firing, that Aquilini was negotiating to hire JR? Edited January 15, 2023 by Alflives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) I’m not a fan of Tocchet, by any means, but if he’s hired, I’ll keep an open mind and definitely try to be patient and give him a chance. What I really hate is the process behind this apparent hiring. In typical Canucks fashion (at least under Aquilini ownership), we’re seeing yet another backwards process where they seem to wait and let a bad situation fester, when it comes to not being clear and decisive in the decision to fire someone. And then they’re abrupt and knee jerk in the replacement hiring. We’ve seen Rutherford take shots at Boudreau for months. And it should be noted that the Boudreau hiring was also backwards, with a coach brought in before the PoHO and GM. So Bruce was never JR and PA’s “guy.” But why let him twist in the wind? If they don’t like the coach, fire him. And then start a careful process and a wide search for the next coach. And get the hiring right. Instead, we have another lame duck situation, months of everyone knowing that management doesn’t back the coach, but Bruce is somehow expected to show up every day and try to be positive. He’s expected to lead and motivate this group, when he doesn’t have the support of the guys above him. And he knows he’s living on borrowed time. And why are we hiring Rick Tocchet before firing Bruce, and before doing anything close to a widespread coaching search? Why aren’t we waiting until the best window when the most candidates are available? Why aren’t we taking our time to find the best candidate? It just boggles the mind. But it’s typical Aquilini. Just think back to the Benning firing and Rutherford hiring. Benning was left in place for far too long. Should have been fired countless times before it finally happened. And then we get Aquilini and interim boss Smyl and told there’s going to be a careful process to hire the next management team. They’re going to look at lots of candidates and take their time to get it right. And then in a matter of mere days, Rutherford is announced as president. Did they even bother to interview anyone else? It’s hardly the first time, either. Even going back to the Gillis hiring. Nonis fired on April 14th, 2008. Gillis hired April 21st. Gillis fired April 8th, 2014. Linden hired April 9th, less than 24 hours later. Has this organization (under Aquilini) ever taken their time in finding a replacement? Have they ever really done a lengthy process, looking at a wide group of candidates, doing careful interviews, making a shortlist. Reinterviewing. And then picking the very best person for the job? And don’t even get me started on the fact that it was Rutherford and Aquilini who went down to Vegas to meet with Tocchet. JR constantly tells us that Allvin is the GM. And Aquilini bristles at the suggestion that he meddles. But when it’s time to find a coach, which is typically the GM’s job, Allvin doesn’t get to come along, and it’s the owner and PoHO who make the trip? And they don’t bother to look at other candidates, but rather, just go offer the job to yet another former Penguin from JR’s old staff? Ugh. Will it ever change? I’m thinking probably not, unless there are new owners. None of this is Tocchet’s fault, of course, so I’m not going to hold it against him. He’s far from my pick, but I rarely see this team hire the people on my personal shortlists, so I’m used to that. If and when he’s announced as the next head coach, I’m going to try to be optimistic. I definitely want the next coach to succeed here. I just wish this team (and especially ownership) did things differently. Edited January 15, 2023 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, OldFaithfulCap said: I’m not gonna use his coaching record from Arizona as a fair example. No coach can work miracles with a team that has no interest in winning. He won two cups as an assistant so it’s not like he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Also one as a player. That’s more cups than our last three coaches have combined. My concern is more to do with playing style. If Rutherford wants this team to play like the Cup winning Pens he’s got a ton of work to do. Edited January 15, 2023 by DeNiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: I’m not gonna use his coaching record from Arizona as a fair example. No coach can work miracles with a team that has no interest in winning. He won two cups as an assistant so it’s not like he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Also one as a player. That’s more cups than our last three coaches have combined. Again, I hate tocchet, but I think it was generally accepted that he had AZ playing above their pay grade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 12 minutes ago, stawns said: What did they do? They released him after rumours surfaced he was pushing hard for a rebuild. 11 minutes ago, stawns said: He was trying to rebuild, nor is there any evidence to support that beyond trading Schneider, which was necessary He absolutely was trying to retool this team and was trying to build for a future after successive playoff exits He never got a chance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Just now, stawns said: Again, I hate tocchet, but I think it was generally accepted that he had AZ playing above their pay grade Defintely, and that’s all you can ask. I mean it’s either gonna work and JR will look like a genius or it’s gonna blow up in spectacular fashion. If it blows up, well I guess we’re going full rebuild. Which might have been the trajectory regardless of what coach we chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said: They released him after rumours surfaced he was pushing hard for a rebuild. He absolutely was trying to retool this team and was trying to build for a future after successive playoff exits He never got a chance Lots of rumours, too, that he didn't want to rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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