RWJC Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, -DLC- said: What about the wishy washy "we don't want to but we are" stuff? What kind of crap is that? If you, the management team, doesn't "want to"...you don't. Simple as that. You're in charge...be decisive. Own it. Accountability is huge for me. Say "he's not our guy" and stand behind it. Absolute fence sitting jargon. Using tact is important....Bruce has assistants seemingly hand picked by JR who also need to have some fingers pointed in their direction. I don't see that happening. They're quick to call Bruce out but he's part of a "team" of coaches. PK? D? They're atrocious....so maybe others should get some of this heat that Bruce is absorbing. Scapegoats often cover up much bigger issues. My feeling is getting rid of Bruce is to deflect a bit. See? We're doing stuff. Reactionary. I want strategic plans not fly by night "wait and see's". Although, them pegging Bruce from the start may be part of it? I just don't want it to be because there are others waiting in the wings in JR's contact list. Due process. I'd love to hear reports on who else they're "talking to/calling". Or is it just one guy from JR's past? Good points, but as a GM are you yourself going to come out and basically cut down your team last season in the midst of what looked like it was going to be a Cinderella push for the playoffs. No, you’re not going to do that. the team has been wishy washy and performing without accountability (especially defensively this season). now it’s being addressed. It’s just that simple. The narrative of it sucks, but that’s also frustration coming out from JR having to double down on what was shown last season, and give it and Bruce another shot at it this year. A lot of fans here on CDC wanted that, let’s see if we can progress off what we saw. But we haven’t. That’s conflict. Conflict can’t always be managed peacefully or equitably, especially when it’s perceived that their are serious faults that need to be addressed, but one half season’s performance last year leaves everything in flux. Ya know what I mean? it’s very unpleasant to witness but it is boiled over frustration on all levels for a lack of execution on all levels. Implosion! Edited January 21, 2023 by RWJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, -DLC- said: Not really...previously, we couldn't score much at all. Now we are. Bruce instilled confidence in these players...there are other coaches whose jobs it is to refine the team. To work on areas like the PK. D. Bruce is the main guy but there are "specialists" in place who need to be scrutinized. Why is that not happening within this management group? If some things are working and others are not, maybe fine tune the areas that are not rather than getting rid of the guy who's at least having success in keeping the players half motivated thorughout it all. I totally agree. I was on these boards a long time ago pushing for Bruce to replace Green. I’d love for him to stay and think he’s proven his worth. I ask you…have the players proven Bruce’s worth? No. They are still complacent and playing junior B level hockey under an amazing coach, and after serious $$$ investment into all aspects of their experience as a Vancouver Canuck. yeah, there is totally fault with the assistant coaches. Absolutely. but there is cancer present and as we all know, when cancer is detected, the safest thing to do the majority of the time is simply just cut it all out and take the collaterally damaged or exposed tissues with it too. That’s the “major surgery” (at least get your wording straight JR) that is required. it sucks, but it’s where we were heading all along. Edited January 21, 2023 by RWJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, RWJC said: Good points, but as a GM are you yourself going to come out and basically cut down your team last season in the midst of what looked like it was going to be a Cinderella push for the playoffs. No, you’re not going to do that. the team has been wishy washy and performing without accountability (especially defensively this season). now it’s being addressed. It’s just that simple. The narrative of it sucks, but that’s also frustration coming out from JR having to double down on what was shown last season, and give it and Bruce another shot at it this year. A lot of fans here on CDC wanted that, let’s see if we can progress off what we saw. But we haven’t. That’s conflict. Conflict can’t always be managed peacefully or equitably, especially when it’s perceived that their are serious faults that need to be addressed, but one half season’s performance last year leaves everything in flux. Ya know what I mean? it’s very unpleasant to witness but it is boiled over frustration on all levels for a lack of execution on all levels. Implosion! New assistants coaches were put into place in the summer. So that changed and now the team's struggling. Under Bruce last year, they managed to really start to generate some momentum. Again...goaltending was beyond good so that did hide a lot of flaws. It is an implosion and instead of things starting to be "fixed" they are getting worse. Before we just pin that on the coach who has managed to find some success with this group (for whatever reason), it seems only fair to look at the guys above him (too). Which is what many of us are doing. Anyhow, cheers...going to do something positive. Right now, seeing Bruce tear up saddens me...he deserved a better send off than this. He bought into a project that required a lot of work and he tried. Good luck to his successor because the bar has been set....fix it or be gone. At least Bruce was a decent human being with integrity...we need a bit more of that right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, -DLC- said: New assistants coaches were put into place in the summer. So that changed and now the team's struggling. Under Bruce last year, they managed to really start to generate some momentum. Again...goaltending was beyond good so that did hide a lot of flaws. It is an implosion and instead of things starting to be "fixed" they are getting worse. Before we just pin that on the coach who has managed to find some success with this group (for whatever reason), it seems only fair to look at the guys above him (too). Which is what many of us are doing. Anyhow, cheers...going to do something positive. Right now, seeing Bruce tear up saddens me...he deserved a better send off than this. He bought into a project that required a lot of work and he tried. Good luck to his successor because the bar has been set....fix it or be gone. At least Bruce was a decent human being with integrity...we need a bit more of that right now. We will see, though I think the required fixes are much deeper than what we’ve hoped. try not to be affected or swayed with the negative though Deb. We still have a hockey club to cheer on, regardless of its state of transition. GCG 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete13 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Due diligence has not been a strong suit of this group so far. What could possibly go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 The team wins 7 in a row when BB comes in. At the time it looked as though the team instantly responded in relief of green being gone, letting the offence do its thing rather than greens defensive approach. Prior to greens firing he’d lost the room. BB was a breath of fresh air. After about 15 gms things kind of levelled out again. The rumblings of BB coming in weren’t as loud as they are with tochett waiting in the wings. In fact it’s the polar opposite. Things were bleak prior to BB but by comparison tochetts arrival seems worse than a COVID cloud coming in off the ocean with nothing we can do about it only to wait and see? I worry the team doesn’t buy in. In spite of jr. which perpetuates more losses. Which also gets the trade movement thing going. A force reaction deliberate hard nose approach. Instant Cold turkey away from the country club atmosphere. This along with the “rumoured” problems in the room. Amazing how 1.5 seasons go by. Aquaman looked like genius bringing Boudreau in and now total grinch’s on his exit. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, chon derry said: The team wins 7 in a row when BB comes in. At the time it looked as though the team instantly responded in relief of green being gone, letting the offence do its thing rather than greens defensive approach. Prior to greens firing he’d lost the room. BB was a breath of fresh air. After about 15 gms things kind of levelled out again. The rumblings of BB coming in weren’t as loud as they are with tochett waiting in the wings. In fact it’s the polar opposite. Things were bleak prior to BB but by comparison tochetts arrival seems worse than a COVID cloud coming in off the ocean with nothing we can do about it only to wait and see? I worry the team doesn’t buy in. In spite of jr. which perpetuates more losses. Which also gets the trade movement thing going. A force reaction deliberate hard nose approach. Instant Cold turkey away from the country club atmosphere. This along with the “rumoured” problems in the room. Amazing how 1.5 seasons go by. Aquaman looked like genius bringing Boudreau in and now total grinch’s on his exit. Absolutely! Bruce was brought in as a best case scenario coach given where this team sat at that time…rebuild or reinvest. The decision was made by all, by all, to reinvest. It’s a group failure, and sadly Bruce served his intended purpose: Either you can get these sad sacks to play meaningful hockey or no one can and direction is finally resolved. any way you slice it Bruce is/was an interim to see if the former regimes roster could be salvaged. If it could, Bruce would have easily earned a new extension soon and still be our coach. unfortunately, even he couldn’t succeed with this group of players. That’s the real sadness in all this. That’s what disappoints me most. The passion is not present. it’s now been attempted and results are evident. An abject failure. Best thing to do is wipe the slate clean and start designing anew. I also believe that if Bruce wants to continue in the NHL, there is a job in mgmt or exec capacity out there for him in a heartbeat. Sadly tonight may be his last game as an NHL coach. All respects to Bruce for his efforts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, RWJC said: I totally agree. I was on these boards a long time ago pushing for Bruce to replace Green. I’d love for him to stay and think he’s proven his worth. I ask you…have the players proven Bruce’s worth? No. They are still complacent and playing junior B level hockey under an amazing coach, and after serious $$$ investment into all aspects of their experience as a Vancouver Canuck. yeah, there is totally fault with the assistant coaches. Absolutely. but there is cancer present and as we all know, when cancer is detected, the safest thing to do the majority of the time is simply just cut it all out and take the collaterally damaged or exposed tissues with it too. That’s the “major surgery” (at least get your wording straight JR) that is required. it sucks, but it’s where we were heading all along. The cancer is Rutherford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, King Heffy said: The cancer is Rutherford. That’s true. All the playoff wins, cups accolades and successes recently have all evaporated since he showed up, yeah? I kid, but then again, maybe you are right Heff and that’s the true intention of his hire as President? To play the villain and blow this team up -quick- when ownership finally decides it’s time and regardless of casualties. perhaps he’s also just an accepted interim hire himself, like Bruce, in place as an instrument of mgmt’s design for the very purpose of accelerating a rebuild if its necessary. Of all people in hockey to be hired, this President has a reputation for going after what he wants. I think ownership sees that demeanour and wants to capitalize on his experience so that if patience is to be had during a re-whatever, that the patience required is mitigated down to the minimal. to me that’s the crux of why JR is approaching this the way he is. it’s exactly what he was hired for. so yeah, Rutherford may now be the cancer, but by design though. Edited January 21, 2023 by RWJC 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, RWJC said: Absolutely! Bruce was brought in as a best case scenario coach given where this team sat at that time…rebuild or reinvest. The decision was made by all, by all, to reinvest. It’s a group failure, and sadly Bruce served his intended purpose: Either you can get these sad sacks to play meaningful hockey or no one can and direction is finally resolved. any way you slice it Bruce is/was an interim to see if the former regimes roster could be salvaged. If it could, Bruce would have easily earned a new extension soon and still be our coach. unfortunately, even he couldn’t succeed with this group of players. That’s the real sadness in all this. That’s what disappoints me most. The passion is not present. it’s now been attempted and results are evident. An abject failure. Best thing to do is wipe the slate clean and start designing anew. I also believe that if Bruce wants to continue in the NHL, there is a job in mgmt or exec capacity out there for him in a heartbeat. Sadly tonight may be his last game as an NHL coach. All respects to Bruce for his efforts. Other things factor in. Demko playin lites out. Masking defensive deficiencies. Slightly better defensive coach’s. And not having the off ice problems , that weren’t near as evident last year as apposed to it this year. Signing miller before horvat jr wasn’t conducting thorough due diligence. Comparing all the pros and cons of both or furthermore that not addressing the defensive core. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: The cancer is Rutherford. What about our owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, RWJC said: That’s true. All the playoff wins, cups accolades and successes recently have all evaporated since he showed up, right? He can be touted for that. But until he brings it to vancity convincing the fanbase he isn’t will be next to impossible. Further to that point how does the base react to a possible losing record on tochett? Because I see him as another quality compromise. A bandaid solution for total hemorrhage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, chon derry said: He can be touted for that. But until he brings it to vancity convincing the fanbase he isn’t will be next to impossible. Further to that point how does the base react to a possible losing record on tochett? Because I see him as another quality compromise. A bandaid solution for total hemorrhage. Keenan had that kind of resume as well, and had similar character issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 3 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said: Special advisor to the GM, Daniel Sedin had a lot to do with the decision. https://www.nhl.com/news/oliver-ekman-larsson-can-help-vancouver-canucks/c-325790002 This is very true. Let's be clear here for anyone reading. When our beloved players take up roles in management (i.e. Linden/Sedins), we also have to be prepared to praise AND criticize their decisions. I'm in the camp that the trade isn't as bad as what this fanbase has been saying, but I also agree that the trade hasn't helped us win. I do not think having Guenther would've helped us in the short term. While it's possible that he could help us long term, we do not need anymore wingers. They are easier to develop than either a center or a defenseman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 28 minutes ago, Alflives said: What about our owner? He’s a puppy puncher. A kitten kicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 32 minutes ago, RWJC said: That’s true. All the playoff wins, cups accolades and successes recently have all evaporated since he showed up, yeah? I kid, but then again, maybe you are right Heff and that’s the true intention of his hire as President? To play the villain and blow this team up -quick- when ownership finally decides it’s time and regardless of casualties. perhaps he’s also just an accepted interim hire himself, like Bruce, in place as an instrument of mgmt’s design for the very purpose of accelerating a rebuild if its necessary. Of all people in hockey to be hired, this President has a reputation for going after what he wants. I think ownership sees that demeanour and wants to capitalize on his experience so that if patience is to be had during a re-whatever, that the patience required is mitigated down to the minimal. to me that’s the crux of why JR is approaching this the way he is. it’s exactly what he was hired for. so yeah, Rutherford may now be the cancer, but by design though. I've read all your posts. There's always a theme with them. Excuses for JR, every single time. You always bring up JR's accolades or you talk about how players should be blamed, except JR has had a hand in constructing this roster. Now you've shifted back to ownership. While it may be hard to blame people lower on the heirachy, JR is very clearly second in command. Aquilini very clearly will not have any expertise with the day to day stuff (supposedly, that was being taken care of by Allvin), nor the Canucks staff (JR) Every single time, it's either the players or ownership, but never a shred of criticism for JR. It's almost like you are JR's lawyer or that he's someone that you personally know. There's gotta be some conflict of interest behind your posts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: Ha, okay there is a teeny tiny chance we come out of this and Miller is still capable of adding value in a couple of years when we need it. Pretty small though as he'll probably do more damage being toxic to young players along the way as he will do any good. It's like someone is really struggling with life and paying their rent and you help them get everything cleaned up, get the car running, get the power and water bill paid, feed them, get them a job, and then learn they took all the rent money and blew it gambling on the 30th of the month. That's the Canucks, and Miller is the money wasted on gambling and the resulting eviction notice. I hate being responsible as I get older but the Canucks org is like a 14 year old kid with their spending habits. Deplorable. So I infer you see Boudreau as an appallingly poor judge of character in his giving JT the "A"........ you don't pin the "A" on a player who is "toxic to young players" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Googlie said: So I infer you see Boudreau as an appallingly poor judge of character in his giving JT the "A"........ you don't pin the "A" on a player who is "toxic to young players" I think the "toxic to young players" argument was extremely overblown. I'm guessing that Miller has the ability to reflect on his own actions, even if he doesn't admit it in the media. He's probably a very likeable guy off the ice, but is "Mr. Serious" once he's on it. He's not a bad player by any means, but he's not the type of player we need right now. The fact that management locked him up before realizing that we needed major surgery is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 5 hours ago, Maginator said: I actually think Tocchet could be a solid coach here. Watching some of his interviews and getting an idea of who he is as a person/coach has me excited. He seems to demand effort from his players but also seems personable. I just hope he is the right fit here.. I really hope so. I'm not sold on his number in Tampa and Arizona being absolutes of his quality of coaching. Tampa was trying to find themselves after Hedman/Stamkos being drafted and an over the hill Lecavalier. Arizona was perpetually young/inexperienced. I am concerned about JR & co simply hiring their croney because they are familiar with him.. so let's hope he's just actually a good fit here. Playing with effort & an edge is what this team has been missing for years so hopefully RT can bring it out of this group. You bring good points here. Arizona's rosters, in particular, has always been poorly constructed. I also completely agree that JR has been hiring his cronies. This does remind us of the so-called "country club" atmosphere. The reviews for Tocchet haven't been good though. As mentioned, Arizona thinks we'll be seeing a lot of low scoring hockey, given their extensive experience with him as a coach. I believe their assessments, but hope they're wrong as well. That being said, if we need major surgery, we don't need a coach to help us try and reach the playoffs. Management needs to make the preparations for us to tank now, which means trading players for picks, among other things. We have to do bad this ONE year, at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, -DLC- said: Bruce instilled confidence in these players...there are other coaches whose jobs it is to refine the team. To work on areas like the PK. D. Bruce is the main guy but there are "specialists" in place who need to be scrutinized. Why is that not happening within this management group? If some things are working and others are not, maybe fine tune the areas that are not rather than getting rid of the guy who's at least having success in keeping the players half motivated thorugh out it all. Seems like a fall guy deal but are the right guys falling? The (informed?) speculation is that Tocchet would bring his own guys ... https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/tocchet-close-signing-canucks-new-assistant-coaches Also, Dahliwall has floated Recchi's name as another that might come on Tocchet's coattails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now