(Discussion) Is it just me?

[nameci]

I just finished reading that the Canucks have NOT given other teams permission to talk to Bo’s agent about a new contract.  I find this to be extremely confusing and counter productive. It seems that Bo will be moving on next season as either a free agent or a sign and trade player.  To maximize his return it makes more sense that he be a sign and trade candidate rather than just a rental player.  Doesn’t it make more sense to let any potential trade partner speak with Bo’s camp to find out just what signing Bo will entail costwise?  Knowing that they have those important details in place will make them more willing to trade for someone who they can count on for a specified time rather than simply a rental, thereby maximizing our return.   And if we do trade Bo, we had better maximize our return or this will become just another Canucks “tire fire” that we will have to live with.

[Nucker 67]

Maybe they'll re-sign him.

[ABNuck]

This is a tactic on Allvin's side...forcing Bo's camp to take a potentially lower "more secure" deal with the Canucks. Not sure I agree with it, but if the priority is to get Bo to sign here then they must try every tactic at their disposal. I'm certain that if nothing can be reached by about 10-14 days before the TDL, they'll allow the contract extension discussions in order to maximize return.

 

I prefer a deal sooner than later. We may be able to convince a team to overpay now in order to keep Bo away from a bidding war at the TDL.

[Alflives]

If a team makes an offer Allvin likes then he might give that team a chance to extend Bo before a trade? 

[Phil_314]

7 minutes ago, ABNuck said:

This is a tactic on Allvin's side...forcing Bo's camp to take a potentially lower "more secure" deal with the Canucks. Not sure I agree with it, but if the priority is to get Bo to sign here then they must try every tactic at their disposal. I'm certain that if nothing can be reached by about 10-14 days before the TDL, they'll allow the contract extension discussions in order to maximize return.

 

I prefer a deal sooner than later. We may be able to convince a team to overpay now in order to keep Bo away from a bidding war at the TDL.

I don't see it forcing Bo's camp's hand at all - he's having by far his best career year (already at 30 goals) so I doubt they'd take a discount.  Seeing how a lot of the world is "post-pandemic" stage, there's probably a perception that money would be more available in the near future e.g., with cap increases, so if anything teams would throw money at one of the best potential FA's out there during the signing period.  If teams would willingly throw money while our team tries this to save money to "provide security" (when he can still sign long term as a FA), I don't see why he takes it.  Also, from our perspective we very much should want a bidding war -- unless there's a contender that views him as a can't-miss #2 C that they'll trade and sign for long-term before TDL, it's probably best that we drive up his market price, then perhaps we can sign and trade him then to max out the deal.  

[ABNuck]

1 minute ago, Phil_314 said:

I don't see it forcing Bo's camp's hand at all - he's having by far his best career year (already at 30 goals) so I doubt they'd take a discount.  Seeing how a lot of the world is "post-pandemic" stage, there's probably a perception that money would be more available in the near future e.g., with cap increases, so if anything teams would throw money at one of the best potential FA's out there during the signing period.  If teams would willingly throw money while our team tries this to save money to "provide security" (when he can still sign long term as a FA), I don't see why he takes it.  Also, from our perspective we very much should want a bidding war -- unless there's a contender that views him as a can't-miss #2 C that they'll trade and sign for long-term before TDL, it's probably best that we drive up his market price, then perhaps we can sign and trade him then to max out the deal.  

Agree with the above...but that is the take a month from now, not where we are at currently. Remember that the closer we get to the TDL, the more uncertainty enters the equation. What if the offers dry up as the TDL approaches? Then we'd end up selling low. What if neither happens? No deal and no trade partner willing to buck up...we lose everything. Allvin has a responsibility to try everything...it may not work, but he has to try otherwise he's just throwing in the towel and the return will be diminished. Everyone has stated (other than JR's stupid comment that they've taken their best shot...what an idiot, shut your mouth goof) that the #1 goal is to re-sign Bo. If they toss in the towel too early then other GM's know that our hands are tied...we need to build up Bo's trade value, not tear it down, in order to maximize return.

[Phil_314]

12 minutes ago, ABNuck said:

Agree with the above...but that is the take a month from now, not where we are at currently. Remember that the closer we get to the TDL, the more uncertainty enters the equation. What if the offers dry up as the TDL approaches? Then we'd end up selling low. What if neither happens? No deal and no trade partner willing to buck up...we lose everything. Allvin has a responsibility to try everything...it may not work, but he has to try otherwise he's just throwing in the towel and the return will be diminished. Everyone has stated (other than JR's stupid comment that they've taken their best shot...what an idiot, shut your mouth goof) that the #1 goal is to re-sign Bo. If they toss in the towel too early then other GM's know that our hands are tied...we need to build up Bo's trade value, not tear it down, in order to maximize return.

That's fair, though we still might be in a better position a bit closer to the deadline.  With some stars beginning to return from the IR, teams might want to see what their roster and cap look like (as well as how realistically competitive they are in relation to their standing) and what they can part with, before making offers for Horvat.  Of course it's a tough call as to whether to sell at a certain point vs. hold for a deal that may or may not come, so I think there needs to be a return that, when reached Allvin would say "deal" to right away.

Agreed that we should build up his value for sure, and Rutherford needs to learn to hold his cards closer to his chest, but at least he's got a more proactive approach than Benning (so history would attest).  Just hope before the trade he wakes up and smells the coffee and sees that "guys who didn't quite live up to their expectations in their first contract" shouldn't be guys he should look to retool with.

[ABNuck]

6 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

That's fair, though we still might be in a better position a bit closer to the deadline.  With some stars beginning to return from the IR, teams might want to see what their roster and cap look like (as well as how realistically competitive they are in relation to their standing) and what they can part with, before making offers for Horvat.  Of course it's a tough call as to whether to sell at a certain point vs. hold for a deal that may or may not come, so I think there needs to be a return that, when reached Allvin would say "deal" to right away.

Agreed that we should build up his value for sure, and Rutherford needs to learn to hold his cards closer to his chest, but at least he's got a more proactive approach than Benning (so history would attest).  Just hope before the trade he wakes up and smells the coffee and sees that "guys who didn't quite live up to their expectations in their first contract" shouldn't be guys he should look to retool with.

100% agree...so many failed experiments. Leave those experiments for PTO's, not trading away your best chip for. We need our first back (the one we used to acquire Bo), and compensation for developing him into a top 50 NHL'er...I say a top prospect is the cost for that, not a has-been maybe could be.

[DrJockitch]

I think if someone comes with a deal that they like they can get permission to talk to agent. 
‘Our poorly run management has been leaking like a sieve to the press, otherwise I would say that is the sort of thing that is done in secret anyway. If CBJ puts in an offer and he says I don’t want to go there it does no good for anyone involved for that to get out. Could also kill the best deal if they know Bo isn’t interested in signing with them. 
(CBJ just example) 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

let's just wait and see.

 

all this bo speculation has been a rollercoaster.

[eeeeergh]

4 hours ago, nameci said:

I just finished reading that the Canucks have NOT given other teams permission to talk to Bo’s agent about a new contract.  I find this to be extremely confusing and counter productive. It seems that Bo will be moving on next season as either a free agent or a sign and trade player.  To maximize his return it makes more sense that he be a sign and trade candidate rather than just a rental player.  Doesn’t it make more sense to let any potential trade partner speak with Bo’s camp to find out just what signing Bo will entail costwise?  Knowing that they have those important details in place will make them more willing to trade for someone who they can count on for a specified time rather than simply a rental, thereby maximizing our return.   And if we do trade Bo, we had better maximize our return or this will become just another Canucks “tire fire” that we will have to live with.

Its a way to keep competitive bidding going to drive up the price before narrowing it down to the best couple of offers. Here's what they do:

 

1. Entertain ALL offers (as a rental, and then what each team would be willing to add in if they were to extend him)

2. Pick the best 2-3 offers, then the nucks go to Bo and ask him if he would re-sign there based on what rough numbers the teams would offer him. E.g. Would you be willing to sign with Boston for around 8m x 8?

3. Then whichever best offer also matches the OK from Bo is given permission to talk to Bo, and by then its already pretty much a done deal. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

They did the same with Miller which was a key reason why Lou pulled out in NYI, otherwise they could have discussed an extension and he'd likely be moved. Instead, the prevented this so Allvin could sign him maybe a bit cheaper. Got made to look the fool in the Miller move.

 

I get it for Bo though, if we can resign him we should try our best, but it was so stupid with Miller because he had a year left on his contract, wasn't an essential move last year and now we're shackled with an 8M 3rd line winger.

[Ted Lasso]

13 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

They did the same with Miller which was a key reason why Lou pulled out in NYI, otherwise they could have discussed an extension and he'd likely be moved. Instead, the prevented this so Allvin could sign him maybe a bit cheaper. Got made to look the fool in the Miller move.

 

I get it for Bo though, if we can resign him we should try our best, but it was so stupid with Miller because he had a year left on his contract, wasn't an essential move last year and now we're shackled with an 8M 3rd line winger.

Great post until this last part. Come on now, haha