[Discussion] Draft and Off Season Talk

[Fakename70]

11 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I really don't know why some fans have trouble with this, yes, we will be buying years of UFA, and we will likely be paying market value to do so. This is the way it always is with everyone.

 

If we chose to resign Horvat, we would have been buying UFA years at 8.5 million per season. We chose instead to turn him into other assets.

 

We needed a solid young center who is close to being NHL ready (Raty) - Check

We needed a top 4 RD, we got a 1st round pick and turned it into a top 4 RD at a time when that's REALLY hard to do.

We got another solid asset who's a former 1st round pick who looked pretty good here since the trade. Since the trade, Horvat recorded 7 goals and 9 assists (16 points) playing top line minutes for the Islanders. Beauvillier recorded 9 goals and 11 assists playing mainly top 6 and some 3rd line minutes and was effective and is signed for another year at 4.15 million, a really tradeable number if we do need to move him

 

Hronek's numbers in the NHL have been really solid, if he performs like he did earlier this year for the Canucks, he's going to cost us 6.5 - 7 million to extend long-term!

 

Hronek at 6.5 million for 6 or 7 year extension = AWESOME! Exactly what we were looking for, and we get to test drive him for a whole season at a nice reasonable cap rate before we make that decision.

“We”? “Us”? Are you in the room when those decisions are being made?

[Plaguez]

Shocker, we didn't actually win something.  Get ready for next year when we squeak into the playoffs and get wiped out in 4 straight.  Should be the pattern for 3-4 years before we need to start another 12 year rebuild.

[VegasCanuck]

Reading posts on this site, I really feel like there's a lot of people who don't understand the concept of inflation or market driven economics and value comparables.

 

Remember when the first cap came in, 39 million? If we could have signed a guy of Pettersson's level back then for 6 million for life, everyone would have freaked out tying up that much percentage of a 39 million cap. Now, let's say that magically he's still playing today and producing at the same level on a 6 million hit against the current 83.5 million Cap....

 

Every GM in the NHL, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, signs Long-Term contracts on the assumption of inflation and a cap that climbs incrementally, year after year.

 

You buy years of UFA on the understanding that the optics on the deal will look better with age in comparison to future NHL caps.

[VegasCanuck]

Just now, Fakename70 said:

“We”? “Us”? Are you in the room when those decisions are being made?

No, but with 35 years of negotiating contracts with Fortune 500 companies, I guess you could say that I have a little bit of insight into the overall process and how future budget planning works within large scale operation that are constantly trying to forecast forward market conditions in everything they do!

 

How's that?

[Fakename70]

12 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Players care about the money for the most part.

How many years have we spent on these boards talking about Shea Weber wanting to come home?

Depends on your definition of “we”. I’ll just assume you’re speaking for/of the same delusional and hard-headed CDC’rs who tried their best year-in, year-out to trade Edler after he made it clear he had no interest in waiving his NMC. 

[Fakename70]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

No, but with 35 years of negotiating contracts with Fortune 500 companies, I guess you could say that I have a little bit of insight into the overall process and how future budget planning works within large scale operation that are constantly trying to forecast forward market conditions in everything they do!

 

How's that?

Nice. But, as I asked, “in the room when those decisions are being made” for the Vancouver Canucks, specifically. 

[Odd.]

34 minutes ago, Provost said:

Virtually all the Cup winners do it on the backs of really high picks that they got from being terrible.

 

Go look back at the Cup winners and see their top 5 picks driving the teams at the top of their production.  Does Colorado win without guys like Mackinnon and Makar?  Where were Hedman and Stamkos drafted?  Pittsburgh, Chicago, Washington… all won from elite franchise top end draft picks.

 

I like Petterson and Hughes a lot… but they are low rent versions of the superstars who won Cups for their teams.  

Please stop writing. It’s hard to take you serious when you write crap like this.

[dougieL]

17 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I really don't know why some fans have trouble with this, yes, we will be buying years of UFA, and we will likely be paying market value to do so. This is the way it always is with everyone.

 

If we chose to resign Horvat, we would have been buying UFA years at 8.5 million per season. We chose instead to turn him into other assets.

 

We needed a solid young center who is close to being NHL ready (Raty) - Check

We needed a top 4 RD, we got a 1st round pick and turned it into a top 4 RD at a time when that's REALLY hard to do.

We got another solid asset who's a former 1st round pick who looked pretty good here since the trade. Since the trade, Horvat recorded 7 goals and 9 assists (16 points) playing top line minutes for the Islanders. Beauvillier recorded 9 goals and 11 assists playing mainly top 6 and some 3rd line minutes and was effective and is signed for another year at 4.15 million, a really tradeable number if we do need to move him

 

Hronek's numbers in the NHL have been really solid, if he performs like he did earlier this year for the Canucks, he's going to cost us 6.5 - 7 million to extend long-term!

 

Hronek at 6.5 million for 6 or 7 year extension = AWESOME! Exactly what we were looking for, and we get to test drive him for a whole season at a nice reasonable cap rate before we make that decision.

The point is we effectively have one more year of him at cost-control. After this year, we effectively sign him at a UFA rate, minus the small difference due to his final RFA-status year spread out over the life of the contract. This is my point. 

 

[VegasCanuck]

1 minute ago, Fakename70 said:

Nice. But, as I asked, “in the room when those decisions are being made” for the Vancouver Canucks, specifically. 

No one on this board is "in the room" or any of the media that everyone here likes to listen to.

 

If Hronek's demands on contract are too high, then he'll sit out camp while his agent and Canucks management negotiate. That's how it works every time!

[Fakename70]

15 minutes ago, swimsWithDucks said:

This is just great. Chicago will go on to create another cup dynasty while the Canucks will spend another decade deciding whether to rebuild or retool.

Time will tell. But, Chicago’s a long way out from “another cup dynasty”, with or without Bedard. I just hope the kid doesn’t collapse under the weight of carrying massive expectations and turn out to be another Eichel. 

[swimsWithDucks]

6 minutes ago, Plaguez said:

Shocker, we didn't actually win something.  Get ready for next year when we squeak into the playoffs and get wiped out in 4 straight.  Should be the pattern for 3-4 years before we need to start another 12 year rebuild.

It's cute you think we will actually squeak into the playoffs. Our model is lose the first half half the season and then win the other half in order to maintain the level of mediocrity we built over the years.

 

After 5 years when Miller can't skate and Petterson and Hughes signs onto new teams. This team will announce that our new core will be [insert player a b c] and we will make the playoffs next season. Rinse and repeat

[swimsWithDucks]

2 minutes ago, Fakename70 said:

Time will tell. But, Chicago’s a long way out from “another cup dynasty”, with or without Bedard. I just hope the kid doesn’t collapse under the weight of carrying massive expectations and turn out to be another Eichel. 

Chicago has experience in building dynasties. So my money is on them winning another cup before we even make the playoffs again

[Fakename70]

4 minutes ago, swimsWithDucks said:

Chicago has experience in building dynasties. So my money is on them winning another cup before we even make the playoffs again

Keep your money. Stay out of Vegas. 

[coryberg]

59 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

in almost 20 years on these boards, I've never reported anyone....and I won't start now.....

 

....but I do know when someone is obviously not worth responding to moving forward....

You can go ahead and report me if you would like. You said something that was completely wrong. This is a message board and you are not immune to being called out for your bull.

Edited May 9, 2023 by coryberg

[*Buzzsaw*]

Congratulations to Management and Coach Tocchet for their brilliant drive for the playoffs at the last moment in the season.  (even though the team could never get there) 

 

Now the Canucks have reaped the reward for just missing a playoff slot by receiving a draft position which will provide them with a 11th rate prospect.

 

Yes, the Canucks will not have a chance at the elite top 5 group of prospects, but that is completely unimportant when you consider they won lots of (meaningless) games at season end.

 

Although the Chicago Black Hawks will be drafting Connor Bedard, (yes, he will sign there... one of his Uncle's was a Hawk) and will have a chance to build a Cup Winning dynasty in the same way they did after they signed Patrick Kane, again, that is clearly unimportant when you consider the Canucks have the bragging rights to say they had a much better record than the Hawks over the last 20 games of the 2023 season.

 

Every Canuck fan is now satisfied to know the team is in good hands and the drive for mediocrity continues. 

[mll]

Here's the draw.

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Congratulations to Management and Coach Tocchet for their brilliant drive for the playoffs at the last moment in the season.  (even though the team could never get there) 

 

Now the Canucks have reaped the reward for just missing a playoff slot by receiving a draft position which will provide them with a 11th rate prospect.

 

Yes, the Canucks will not have a chance at the elite top 5 group of prospects, but that is completely unimportant when you consider they won lots of (meaningless) games at season end.

 

Although the Chicago Black Hawks will be drafting Connor Bedard, (yes, he will sign there... one of his Uncle's was a Hawk) and will have a chance to build a Cup Winning dynasty in the same way they did after they signed Patrick Kane, again, that is clearly unimportant when you consider the Canucks have the bragging rights to say they had a much better record than the Hawks over the last 20 games of the 2023 season.

 

Every Canuck fan is now satisfied to know the team is in good hands and the drive for mediocrity continues. 

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

do you underdstand what the point of the league is?  Hint.......it's not accumulating draft picks

In the salary cap era, teams that have won cups have made it a point to accumulate draft capital during their rebuild phases. The Canucks are one of the few teams that refuse to do so. 

 

I feel like draft capital is vastly underestimated by this community as a tool for sustainable success and consistent winning in a tight cap world.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Oh yeah...  I would not be surprised in the least if in the distant future it slips out that the 2023 Lottery was fixed.

 

Chicago's Wirtz family is one of the long established power centers of the NHL, and the owner can get Bettman on the phone any time he wiggles his little finger.

[Bounce000]

5 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Congratulations to Management and Coach Tocchet for their brilliant drive for the playoffs at the last moment in the season.  (even though the team could never get there) 

 

Now the Canucks have reaped the reward for just missing a playoff slot by receiving a draft position which will provide them with a 11th rate prospect.

 

Yes, the Canucks will not have a chance at the elite top 5 group of prospects, but that is completely unimportant when you consider they won lots of (meaningless) games at season end.

 

Although the Chicago Black Hawks will be drafting Connor Bedard, (yes, he will sign there... one of his Uncle's was a Hawk) and will have a chance to build a Cup Winning dynasty in the same way they did after they signed Patrick Kane, again, that is clearly unimportant when you consider the Canucks have the bragging rights to say they had a much better record than the Hawks over the last 20 games of the 2023 season.

 

Every Canuck fan is now satisfied to know the team is in good hands and the drive for mediocrity continues.