Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[Gawdzukes]

On 5/18/2023 at 12:06 PM, Odd. said:

If that’s the case then why do we cater towards Pettersson and Hughes’s needs wand wants rather than doing what’s best for this team? 
 

This team is nowhere near ready to compete yet management is trading 1st round picks for other teams expendables just so we can play an extra 3 weeks in April. Tell me, what bottom 10 team in recent memory you ever see become buyers at the TDL. No draft capital, no blue chip prospects, overpaid wingers, overpaid defenseman, underperforming core guys, no quality defenseman significant enough to be a contributing factor after Hughes, no cap space.
 

So we go and get Hronek who’s not a top pairing defenseman but was played like

one due to how incredibly shallow Detroit’s defense was. He’s not a two way defenseman, he had a defensive defenseman babysit him in Maata back in Detroit, and he has one of the worst GSVA’s for defenseman the last 3 years.

 

We are retooling rather than doing what’s right and beneficial for the team because we’re letting two star players dictate decisions. No team has retooled and gotten as far as competing for the cup. It’s not worked before, it’s not going to work again. All it does is puts us in perpetual mediocrity. We just went 8 years of retooling with Benning and now we’re doing the same thing. Horvat = Trading Kesler. Hronek = Acquiring Gudbranson and trading McCann and picks.

Yeah, this whole having to do this and that for Petey and Hughes concept is pretty shaky imo. So after we spend every available penny, and make a couple of crappy/insignificant moves are Petey and Hughes staying put just because they're happy we tried? As it stands this team isn't going to be much better next year but I would actually be trying to do things that make the team better at some point and I would hope they would understand that. Forcing it now instead of actually planning for the future is a mistake imo but I guess let's see what happens this summer. They might do some really crazy stuff or they might just stand pat and roll the same team back..

[Gurn]

E.P. and Hughes may well leave, no matter what the Nucks do.

Hughes might well want to play for an East Coast team, to be closer to his family

E.P. may decided that planes rides from New York area to Sweden are so much shorter as to be worth going to a different team.

 

Not a single one of us truly knows.

 

So why let the worry of them leaving, have anything to do with how you build the team.?

[chon derry]

7 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I'm glad to see someone chime-in with a bit of common sense and not "Claim" HornWreck is the next coming of Christ after watching him play for a whole 20 minutes.  Even though we all have to hope for him to be a star - now that we're stuck with him for at least 1 year until his contract is up - the timing of this trade and especially the extremely sky-high statospheric cost are questionable at best, and have "the scent of Aqua-lini desperation to keep fans in the seats NOW" - written all over this trade!

 

As many "Normal" fans have said, this type of trade is something you'd normally expect to see from a team in contention, not one that is dreaming of such. 

 

 I hope this means that JR & Co. know something we don't!

Sky high stratospheric cost ?  It was a pick the Canucks  didn’t even have prior to the horvat deal. With the return of hronek raty beaullivier was in line. What wasn’t was a 3rd rd pk for schenn it should have been a 2 nd to replace the one in the hronek deal. But once schenn was slated for trade there had to be some defenceman coming back somehow someway. I can only imagine the sniveling here had there been no acquirment of a quality dman. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by chon derry

[Gawdzukes]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:54 PM, spook007 said:

Would you prefer to start all over? The two stars you are referring to are the now of this team. 

Amazing its so hard to understand that they may wanna win...

If they won'y hang around for rebuild then what? Sell them and start all over???

This is what I was talking about in my last post. So has Petey or Hughes said they are leaving if we don't win this year or something so we're just going trying to trick them into staying by flashing some shiny toys at them or something? What if like most teams there is realistic timeline for when you can expect to be a top team? I would say for this team that's the 2-4 year mark. I'm not sure we can just waive a magic wand and make us ultra competitive right now. I don't quite get the notion that it has to be now, now, now., and if we don't win yesterday we have to just quit and sell everyone. McDavid stuck it out in Edmonton. Matthews seems to want to stay in Toronto. I think hockey players understand not every team is amazing and getting there takes time and effort.

 

If we are forced into making poor decisions and sacrificing the overall quality of the team for short term bench marks that certainly doesn't sound like a situation that will end with a winner. Personally if I was Petey, or Quinn, I would be more on board with a solidly orchestrated plan rather than just short sighted stabs in the dark.  

[iceman64]

On 5/18/2023 at 3:47 PM, spook007 said:

You are so right Dixon...

Thank you...

 

Lets get some positive vibes...

C'mon we all know the CDC is the happiest when there's something to bitch about..  

[spook007]

3 hours ago, hammertime said:

Honestly though sure. I'm a big fan of Pete and Hughes but if they put themselves before the team deal em. The return would be huge and we might be able to actually rebuild this mess properly. 

I don't see it as easy as that hammer. 
i'd hate to have people on the team that didn't want to win every game they played in. 
And also, if they'd want to leave in order to win, in case we didn't give them the opportunities to do so, I wouldn't blame them. 
As I've said lots of time, either start a total rebuild ( think they ought to wait a few years) or run with the horse we have.  
There is no in between... just a total waste. 
Petey and QH are a few years too old to still continue the rebuild. 
Just my 5c

Edited May 20, 2023 by spook007

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

This is what I was talking about in my last post. So has Petey or Hughes said they are leaving if we don't win this year or something so we're just going trying to trick them into staying by flashing some shiny toys at them or something? What if like most teams there is realistic timeline for when you can expect to be a top team? I would say for this team that's the 2-4 year mark. I'm not sure we can just waive a magic wand and make us ultra competitive right now. I don't quite get the notion that it has to be now, now, now., and if we don't win yesterday we have to just quit and sell everyone. McDavid stuck it out in Edmonton. Matthews seems to want to stay in Toronto. I think hockey players understand not every team is amazing and getting there takes time and effort.

 

If we are forced into making poor decisions and sacrificing the overall quality of the team for short term bench marks that certainly doesn't sound like a situation that will end with a winner. Personally if I was Petey, or Quinn, I would be more on board with a solidly orchestrated plan rather than just short sighted stabs in the dark.  

Its a lot easier to make players wanna stay, when they are winning. 
Why on earth would QH, Petey and Demko wanna hang around, if we are still treading water in 2-4 years? Players have a time line, and even though they like the clubs they play for, they want to win accolades. 
Matthews and McD wanting stay is all good, but if they weren't winning, I doubt they would show the same enthusiasm towards staying with their clubs. 
But of course that is just how I see it...

Edited May 20, 2023 by spook007

[spook007]

8 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I'm glad to see someone chime-in with a bit of common sense and not "Claim" HornWreck is the next coming of Christ after watching him play for a whole 20 minutes.  Even though we all have to hope for him to be a star - now that we're stuck with him for at least 1 year until his contract is up - the timing of this trade and especially the extremely sky-high statospheric cost are questionable at best, and have "the scent of Aqua-lini desperation to keep fans in the seats NOW" - written all over this trade!

 

As many "Normal" fans have said, this type of trade is something you'd normally expect to see from a team in contention, not one that is dreaming of such. 

 

 I hope this means that JR & Co. know something we don't!

How much have you seen Hrorak play?

Honest question as a lot of folks seems to write him of as a dogs breakfast without having seen him play. 
if PA says they've been scouting him since last year, I would kind of think, hey have a good read on him by now ...

 

8 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by spook007

[hammertime]

9 minutes ago, spook007 said:

I don't see it as asy as that hammer. 
i'd hate to have people on the team that did want to win every game they played in. 
And also, if they'd want to leave in order to win, in case we didn't give them yje opportunities to do so, I wouldn't blame them. 
As I've said lots of time, either start a total rebuild ( think they ought to wait a few years) or run with the horse we have.  
There is no in between... just a total waste. 
Petey and QH are a few years to old to still continue the rebuild. 
Just my 5c

If they want to win is one thing. I don't get the impression Pete will be signing any Sedinesque contract or donating a mill to Canucks for kids. I saw it as Horvat put himself before the team with his wild contract demand and if Petey wants to squeeze every penny he will be traded too. If he wants to win thats different he will leave a sliver of pie to have a better team around him.  

[spook007]

11 minutes ago, hammertime said:

If they want to win is one thing. I don't get the impression Pete will be signing any Sedinesque contract or donating a mill to Canucks for kids. I saw it as Horvat put himself before the team with his wild contract demand and if Petey wants to squeeze every penny he will be traded too. If he wants to win thats different he will leave a sliver of pie to have a better team around him.  

That is fair amigo. If he puts himself first at the top of tree, then he'll have to take, what he has coming, however they are not going to suck to get a higher draft pick. 

PS. A little drizzled tonight so the spelling is slightly off 

Edited May 20, 2023 by spook007

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

He was fast, forechecked well, and was one of our only reliable penalty killers 

a more than worthy 4c for 925k 

 

at 22 years old, with lots of time as well to improve faceoffs, put on weight, etc. 

 

most important thing is he has the defensive instincts to already be an excellent penalty killer. That tells me his future is a good shutdown 3c

We'll see. I agree he played well and I was quite happy with his play. He didn't set the world on fire though and I think 3C is a far cry from playing limited 4th line minutes. He seems decent defensively but how much did he even kill penalties? Wasn't our PK just awful too? I think usually they look for a little more offence at that position as well. It would be nice if he progresses like you suggest though I don't really know if that's his projection. I would be happy if just solidifies himself on the 4th line to be honest. His 38% face offs definitely needs work for either position but he definitely didn't look deserving of a boost up the line-up.

[dougieL]

On 5/17/2023 at 7:20 PM, spook007 said:

... get a guy in free agencyor at significantly reduced trade cost...?

 

Sorry, are you saying the JR/PA, who have been GM'ing for years just traded for a player using a 1st and a 2nd they could just have gotten cheaper in free agency?

 

And how are you exactly going to do that? 
Think its been proven several times in this thread, what the going rate is for a good rhd. 
 

FA is where we got Myers...

 

Do agree that its possible to get a player in FA but not cheaper, and more likely not at the same stature. 

Did I every say they could have signed a Hronek-level player in FA at 1 year for 4.4m? You know what - if you want to go down that route, yeah, we're about to get a Hronek-level player in FA, and you're absolutely right that he won't be cheaper. He'll be a hell of a lot more expensive. You know who that player is going to be? Yeah...Hronek 

 

And yeah, we could have taken advantage of a team in a cap crunch to poach players at reduced cost...kind of the same thing teams will likely do to us now that we're the ones in the cap crunch.

 

The consequences of this trade will not have been fully felt until we see (a) how much it's going to cost us to get out of our current cap predicament, and (b) how much we sign Hronek for.

 

This whole "the 18th pick will likely never be as good as Hronek" or "the 18th pick will not help us within X years" is nonsense. People need to understand the value of cap space, and until you do, you're only seeing half the picture. What did people say about Garland for our 9th overall? Some variant of "Guenther won't help us for at least 2-3 years" or "Guenther's ceiling is comparable to what Garland is now." And yet, do you think for one second that a team would give us a Guenther-level prospect in exchange for Garland and his cap hit?

 

Give your heads a shake people - this trade is nowhere near the slam dunk you think it is.

 

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, dougieL said:

Did I every say they could have signed a Hronek-level player in FA at 1 year for 4.4m? You know what - if you want to go down that route, yeah, we're about to get a Hronek-level player in FA, and you're absolutely right that he won't be cheaper. He'll be a hell of a lot more expensive. You know who that player is going to be? Yeah...Hronek 

 

And yeah, we could have taken advantage of a team in a cap crunch to poach players at reduced cost...kind of the same thing teams will likely do to us now that we're the ones in the cap crunch.

 

The consequences of this trade will not have been fully felt until we see (a) how much it's going to cost us to get out of our current cap predicament, and (b) how much we sign Hronek for.

 

This whole "the 18th pick will likely never be as good as Hronek" or "the 18th pick will not help us within X years" is nonsense. People need to understand the value of cap space, and until you do, you're only seeing half the picture. What did people say about Garland for our 9th overall? Some variant of "Guenther won't help us for at least 2-3 years" or "Guenther's ceiling is comparable to what Garland is now." And yet, do you think for one second that a team would give us a Guenther-level prospect in exchange for Garland and his cap hit?

 

Give your heads a shake people - this trade is nowhere near the slam dunk you think it is.

 

 

 

Cup winners always have lots of cap space. 

[dougieL]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:12 PM, Timråfan said:

 

You two is talking about cap problems.

How does it look the coming season? 
How much over are or how much do you two think we’re over the cap?

Our cap situation in terms of how little space we have is probably one of the worst in the league at this point. 

 

[dougieL]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Cup winners always have lots of cap space. 

Uh...

[Gawdzukes]

52 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Its a lot easier to make players wanna stay, when they are winning. 
Why on earth would QH, Petey and Demko wanna hang around, if we are still treading water in 2-4 years? Players have a time line, and even though they like the clubs they play for, they want to win accolades. 
Matthews and McD wanting stay is all good, but if they weren't winning, I doubt they would show the same enthusiasm towards staying with their clubs. 
But of course that is just how I see it...

Yes exactly true. People like winning. I guess what I'm saying is I think there are more ways to get the job done than the current vision of some folks. It's actually kind of funny for me as I'm typing these posts because really I don't mind the trade. In my opinion we are lacking 3 RD's. The ones we have are all complete rubbish so in that vein we needed to do something. Getting experienced, qualified guarantees at that position is the hardest thing so at least we got one right?

 

Is there a way the team could have kept the pick and been further ahead in 3 years. I think that's absolutely possible. The goal should be building the best team possible. It's a shame we burnt through so many assets that's what we had to give up, and we still need two more Rd's. In this panic to make sure Petey and Quinn are happy and satisfied shouldn't we just be burning through all of our other assets as well then, like our 11OA, our first next year, Lekkerimaki, D Petey, and Silovs, because they're all useless to us now and could turn out to be nothing?

 

I have to chuckle as I have to keep reminding myself Petey is just 24. With all the talk around here it's kind of feels like the Ray Bourque situation where he deserves a Cup before he retires or something so we're desperately trying to get him one. The difference was Bourque was 40 ... I'm sure he can wait a couple years. 

[dougieL]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Cup winners always have lots of cap space. 

Teams that are out of the playoffs by January typically shouldn't be in a cap crunch 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Uh...

Duh. 

[Gawdzukes]

20 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Did I every say they could have signed a Hronek-level player in FA at 1 year for 4.4m? You know what - if you want to go down that route, yeah, we're about to get a Hronek-level player in FA, and you're absolutely right that he won't be cheaper. He'll be a hell of a lot more expensive. You know who that player is going to be? Yeah...Hronek 

 

And yeah, we could have taken advantage of a team in a cap crunch to poach players at reduced cost...kind of the same thing teams will likely do to us now that we're the ones in the cap crunch.

 

The consequences of this trade will not have been fully felt until we see (a) how much it's going to cost us to get out of our current cap predicament, and (b) how much we sign Hronek for.

 

This whole "the 18th pick will likely never be as good as Hronek" or "the 18th pick will not help us within X years" is nonsense. People need to understand the value of cap space, and until you do, you're only seeing half the picture. What did people say about Garland for our 9th overall? Some variant of "Guenther won't help us for at least 2-3 years" or "Guenther's ceiling is comparable to what Garland is now." And yet, do you think for one second that a team would give us a Guenther-level prospect in exchange for Garland and his cap hit?

 

Give your heads a shake people - this trade is nowhere near the slam dunk you think it is.

 

 

 

The whole notion that people think an 18OA is useless because it might not turn out or if it does it might be in a year, or two, or three, is absolutely ludicrous imo. This is hockey that's where players come from like it or not. It's like people are like I want a Cup, but only if I get it right now. What?  Unfortunately hockey and most sports are an ongoing process that sometimes requires patience and sometimes it takes longer than you think. Having picks, the higher the better is a good thing believe it or not. I don't know any team that couldn't use a stud player 3 years from now.

[iceman64]

2 hours ago, spook007 said:

I don't see it as easy as that hammer. 
i'd hate to have people on the team that didn't want to win every game they played in. 
And also, if they'd want to leave in order to win, in case we didn't give them the opportunities to do so, I wouldn't blame them. 
As I've said lots of time, either start a total rebuild ( think they ought to wait a few years) or run with the horse we have.  
There is no in between... just a total waste. 
Petey and QH are a few years too old to still continue the rebuild. 
Just my 5c

I'm not convinced tearing it down is a step forward 

Edited May 20, 2023 by iceman64