Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[dougieL]

6 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

bet anything that with demko healthy + hronek in the lineup, minus horvat, we're already a bubble playoff team

 

a penalty killing 3c and an additional big shutdown defenseman make us a competitive playoff team

 

 

And with what cap space will we be signing a penalty killing 3C and a big shutdown dman?  

 

You seriously need to start learning numbers bud.

 

 

[dougieL]

19 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Because we have the players to get us to playoff the coming season. We don’t need to rush it.

We have players that are injured and at least one will not come back this year.

 

A little sidestep here…

If PA trade away the 1st some here will believe it’s a stressed decision when it’s a calculated strategy to get the bpa for us. And if that happen he will throw away one of the wingers we don’t need because we trade dollar for dollar also. 

There is no chance anybody here can claim two lottery tickets is worth more than an established player. Fine, you get two cost controlled players but you won’t know if they ever play in NHL.

 

So, can you please answer my question now? 
Or do you have more questions instead? 

 

 

 

 

I'll answer your questions when you actually manage to write a coherent post 

[dougieL]

6 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

except it really isnt

 

where on earth is everyone seeing these massive cap issues that i keep hearing about

 

we are "over the cap" only if you count pearson and poolman, both of which are going to be sitting on LTIR

 

if you put those two on LTIR, and include our 850k bonus overage, we start next year at 78.35

 

Add 3m for Bear and youre at 81.35m + 800k for Silovs and youre at 82.15

 

So with ZERO moves we are 1 million under the cap

 

If JR makes ONE move this offseason (lets say he moves Garland with 1m retention) thats 5 million dollars for a 3C + some sandpaper on D. 

 

Next year, Beauviller and Myers contracts fall off - 10.5 million of space opens up. 

 

Petey needs a 3 million raise to take him over 10 million, Hronek will need a 3 million raise most likely. 

 

Salary cap is projected now to go up by an ADDITIONAL 4 million

 

So we go into the following season, WITH raises for our expensive RFAs, with around 8 million dollars of cap space

 

 

Literally where are these massive cap issues everyones talking about. We aren't minesota with 12 million in actual dead cap. 

Wait so you think they'll let Beauvillier walk after touting him as a piece that has the value of a first-rounder? 

[eeeeergh]

18 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Uh what??? How many players do you think are on a full NHL roster?

 

Assuming Pearson and Poolman go on LTIR, we have 79.26m committed to 20 skaters. That leaves around 4.25m to sign 3 more skaters. Let's go with your estimate of 3m for Bear (although I'm willing to assume we can sign him for under 3m). 

 

That leaves in the neighborhood of 1.25m to sign 2 more players.

 

Oh and do you feel like we should sign Hoglander? If so, he'll cost what...1.5m? And then what?

 

Okay now, given this cap situation (do we agree now that we are in a cap crunch?), what do you think teams will ask from us to take 4m of our books (for 3 years!!!) in Garland? People just somehow magically have us getting rid of money and term with little or no pain. You're seriously dreaming if you don't think we're in a cap crunch.

 

 

What cap crunch? 
 

3m for Bear 

2 more at league minimum 

 

Hoglander spent last season in the nhl he’s getting league minimum. It’ll be a 1 way deal if he’s lucky. 
 

Stop being a doomer, Garland is valuable, other teams media have proposals out there with THEM giving us assets without us having to retain.

 

we literally have so many options it’s silly. 

[eeeeergh]

16 minutes ago, dougieL said:

And with what cap space will we be signing a penalty killing 3C and a big shutdown dman?  

 

You seriously need to start learning numbers bud.

 

 

Boeser or Garland moved with some retention worst case scenario 

Myers moved after his bonus is paid 

OEL bought out 

 

seems like plenty of choices to create the cap space to me. 
 

stop being a doomer. Don’t be sad. Get glad! 

[dougieL]

2 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

What cap crunch? 
 

3m for Bear 

2 more at league minimum 

 

Hoglander spent last season in the nhl he’s getting league minimum. It’ll be a 1 way deal if he’s lucky. 
 

Stop being a doomer, Garland is valuable, other teams media have proposals out there with THEM giving us assets without us having to retain.

 

we literally have so many options it’s silly. 

This is hilarious. It's been costing teams a late first rounder to move out 6m for one year. Garland is at around 15m for 3 years. Just as a rough guideline, let's say that's around the same value as 6m for 2 years. So Garland will have to have value ABOVE two late first rounders in order for us to collect assets in moving him out. I don't know man...I wish I shared your optimism, but the more likely reality is we'd have to pay through the nose to move either him or Boeser unless we're willing to retain a significant portion.

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, dougieL said:

This is hilarious. It's been costing teams a late first rounder to move out 6m for one year. Garland is at around 15m for 3 years. Just as a rough guideline, let's say that's around the same value as 6m for 2 years. So Garland will have to have value ABOVE two late first rounders in order for us to collect assets in moving him out. I don't know man...I wish I shared your optimism, but the more likely reality is we'd have to pay through the nose to move either him or Boeser unless we're willing to retain a significant portion.

There’s a huge difference between a 6 million dollar body that doesn’t belong in the NHL

 

and Conor garland who’s a proper middle6 forward and is a leading nhl’er 5v5 

 

Red Wings media put out a proposal offering real assets for him without asking for retention from us 

 

moving OEL would cost us a lot to dump

 

But there are teams out there who would LOVE garland on their team especially if we retained a bit 

[dougieL]

6 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Boeser or Garland moved with some retention worst case scenario 

Myers moved after his bonus is paid 

OEL bought out 

 

seems like plenty of choices to create the cap space to me. 
 

stop being a doomer. Don’t be sad. Get glad! 

Myers has a no-move. And he's still 6m on the cap, regardless of his actual salary. And even if you think that bonus being paid helps a bit, that bonus is paid in the middle of September, not in July when there is much more fluidity in the market. I can guarantee that moving him will be much tougher than typing the words "Myers moved"

 

Allvin has said he his preference is not to use buyouts, and OEL would be a massive buyout that leaves almost a decade of dead cap. 

 

And again, moving Boeser or Garland is assuredly much more difficult and painful than just typing those words. If only everything was as easy as you made it out to be...

 

 

[Chicken.]

[dougieL]

8 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

There’s a huge difference between a 6 million dollar body that doesn’t belong in the NHL

 

and Conor garland who’s a proper middle6 forward and is a leading nhl’er 5v5 

 

Red Wings media put out a proposal offering real assets for him without asking for retention from us 

 

moving OEL would cost us a lot to dump

 

But there are teams out there who would LOVE garland on their team especially if we retained a bit 

Uh okay...

 

And OEL is not going anywhere unless bought out. He has a NMC, and his contract is literally toxic.

Edited May 21, 2023 by dougieL

[eeeeergh]

6 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Myers has a no-move. And he's still 6m on the cap, regardless of his actual salary. And even if you think that bonus being paid helps a bit, that bonus is paid in the middle of September, not in July when there is much more fluidity in the market. I can guarantee that moving him will be much tougher than typing the words "Myers moved"

 

Allvin has said he his preference is not to use buyouts, and OEL would be a massive buyout that leaves almost a decade of dead cap. 

 

And again, moving Boeser or Garland is assuredly much more difficult and painful than just typing those words. If only everything was as easy as you made it out to be...

 

 

Sure but my point was 

we dont have to do anything at all to ice a compliant roster next year 

a roster that’s already way better with Hronek and beauviller over Horvat 

and with demko jealthy 

 

and the following year myers falls off, as does Beauvillier. 
 

so even if I’m wrong and moving ANYONE this year is impossible, we simply don’t have to 

[dougieL]

8 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

There’s a huge difference between a 6 million dollar body that doesn’t belong in the NHL

 

and Conor garland who’s a proper middle6 forward and is a leading nhl’er 5v5 

 

Red Wings media put out a proposal offering real assets for him without asking for retention from us 

 

moving OEL would cost us a lot to dump

 

But there are teams out there who would LOVE garland on their team especially if we retained a bit 

Yes I know. So a useless 6m player costs a late first to move. A slightly less useless player at 6m might cost a second rounder. And so on. So a player has to have usefulness ABOVE the late first in order to recover positive assets in a move.

[dougieL]

2 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Sure but my point was 

we dont have to do anything at all to ice a compliant roster next year 

a roster that’s already way better with Hronek and beauviller over Horvat 

and with demko jealthy 

 

and the following year myers falls off, as does Beauvillier. 
 

so even if I’m wrong and moving ANYONE this year is impossible, we simply don’t have to 

Yeah...being cap compliant is a pretty low bar, and that's assuming we can sign Hoglander at your league minimum. According to you, without any additional movies, this has us as a bubble playoff team. Fantastic. Can't wait for next season.

 

And again, what makes you think they'll let Beauvillier walk after touting him as having the value of a first-rounder?

[dougieL]

14 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

There’s a huge difference between a 6 million dollar body that doesn’t belong in the NHL

 

and Conor garland who’s a proper middle6 forward and is a leading nhl’er 5v5 

 

Red Wings media put out a proposal offering real assets for him without asking for retention from us 

 

moving OEL would cost us a lot to dump

 

But there are teams out there who would LOVE garland on their team especially if we retained a bit 

Out of curiosity, what was the proposal?

[eeeeergh]

5 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Out of curiosity, what was the proposal?

Robby Fabbri (Center) mcissac (defense prospect) and 2nd round pick 

 

for 
 

Garland 

 

Fabbri plays on the pk, use him as our 3C. He’s only got 1 year left on his contract. If he’s good, keep him. If not, let him walk at UFA 

[iceman64]

4 hours ago, Timråfan said:

I’m a little bit curious if the SHL prospects needs more than a year in SHL before NHL.

 

It’s not like the childrens leagues in WHL and so on.

It’s the third league in the world with men against men.

Leo Carlsson plays for Sweden already in WC par example.

ASP after a year in SHL after the draft is probably a 5/6 D already with a lot of development.

Your comment about SHL another year, I strongly disagree to it, why? Because the biggest difference is how much faster the NHL is due to lack of time and space on a smaller rink, I'd rather have them on a smaller rink asap. 

It's long talked about that it's the biggest adjustment because the room to skate around and do whatever you want is gone. 

 I'm not saying there's not elite prospects who can make the adjustment a lot easier but that not the norm so... 

 Anyway just an opinion 

[dougieL]

5 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Robby Fabbri (Center) mcissac (defense prospect) and 2nd round pick 

 

for 
 

Garland 

 

Fabbri plays on the pk, use him as our 3C. He’s only got 1 year left on his contract. If he’s good, keep him. If not, let him walk at UFA 

I'm not sure how much stock I put in Hockeywriters trade proposals, but okay.

 

Fabbri has 2 years left on his contract at 4m. Not one.

 

And another thing...pretty sure he plays as left wing, and not a center.

 

[Timråfan]

2 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Your comment about SHL another year, I strongly disagree to it, why? Because the biggest difference is how much faster the NHL is due to lack of time and space on a smaller rink, I'd rather have them on a smaller rink asap. 

It's long talked about that it's the biggest adjustment because the room to skate around and do whatever you want is gone. 

 I'm not saying there's not elite prospects who can make the adjustment a lot easier but that not the norm so... 

 Anyway just an opinion 

Agree regarding reaching the full potential. 
Just look at Petey. Now is he close to the player he can be. 
What I mean is that the player has reached a level to start play in NHL.

But Abby can be best place to start.

[-DLC-]

On 5/16/2023 at 4:04 PM, Warhippy said:

Doesn't he need to maybe play more than say 4 games before that statement is made?

While I agree with this, apply it on both sides. "Best" and "bust" (which some here are leaning toward with the tone of their posts). 

 

Wait and see before we decide...but it is perfectly ok to be hopeful and optimistic. Some here dredge up the past and are stuck on past mistakes that bring everything into a negative light. That was then this is now.

 

 

[Warhippy]

40 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

While I agree with this, apply it on both sides. "Best" and "bust" (which some here are leaning toward with the tone of their posts). 

 

Wait and see before we decide...but it is perfectly ok to be hopeful and optimistic. Some here dredge up the past and are stuck on past mistakes that bring everything into a negative light. That was then this is now.

 

 

You're right.  This is now.

 

And until we see what happens I'll still maintain a wait and see position before I make a decision either way.

 

I've bought way to many jerseys for players that just sit in the closet now