grandmaster Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Baratheon said: So that’s it then? Lucic, Reaves, Wilson (did I miss anyone?) or bust? If there are so few of them then maybe there’s a reason for it. If we can only employ one player that will make a world of difference then so be it. We have too many soft players. This is not the case with other teams. One Lucic on his own can balance the scales. We can’t make too many moves Edited June 15, 2023 by grandmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) He was a force, but he's older- going to be 36 to start next year he will almost certainly be slower He's been a minus player, for 7 straight years been below 55 pims in 3 of last four seasons 54,46,84 and 43 last year. had 3 fights last year, against Ian Cole, Mathieu Olivier and Kurtis MacDermid 4 Canucks had more scraps and 2 had the same amount. If this guy was available a decade ago, sure-get him. Kyle Burroughs played on defense for about 6 minutes more per game than Lucic, had more scraps and ended up with a better plus/minus Calgary scored 258 and allowed 247 goals Canucks scored 270 and allowed 296 goals. Edited June 15, 2023 by Gurn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meh Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, Meh said: Meh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sims Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Know the guy, know the family, like the guy. Don't want him on this team. Easiest pass imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 People loved Gino but hate Looch...,interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: People loved Gino but hate Looch...,interesting. I'm going to suggest that not that many folk would want a 36 year old Gino on the team, either. It looks like Gino was out of the league when he was 31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gurn said: Did Lucic get more points than Demko? I know it isn't the goalies job to get points, or most of the defensemen's either, but still Lucic got more points than them? Awesome. I excluded goalies Otherwise it would be 30 Edited June 15, 2023 by canuck73_3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: People loved Gino but hate Looch...,interesting. People loved Cooke, Kesler, Ruutu, Brashear, etc etc amongst a slew of guys who played for us on the edge or over it, but for some reason dismiss it as just revisionist history (and dependency) on guys like that. Sorry, can’t have it both ways. This team’s had always had its share of deterrents and agitators and still needs them badly. Considering bench boss, it’s in our favour to employ a couple again. I’m not talking strictly goons, I’m talking guys who can play actual shifts and be effective. As I’ve mentioned before, a Lucic is a perfect stop gap deterrent while we resolve cap. Like him or not right now, I think most of the passive or “moral projectionist” type fans would rather have EP QH or Podz playing healthy and with a little more room knowing that there is someone who, if required, can target and punish some of the top talent in retaliation. I would rather have a guy that we can afford to lose to suspension for a few games out of protecting teammates, than to not have one. Lucic could be cheap and relatively disposable. The folks who keep harping on the way he plays the game should take a step back and look at what and who else is employed around the league. Kind of tired of hearing about his perceived lack of ethics and sportsmanship. It ain’t ballet. It’s a physical sport and the top teams tend to have both grit and stature. We are severely lacking in both departments. Until we can afford to obtain the young talent that fits this roster and such a need, stop gap is our best and cheapest option. Maybe try looking at the game from ice level, not from some moral high ground that, if you watched any of the playoffs, was more than occasionally put aside in the pursuit of success. Build a team that is playoff-centric and we will start to see success again. Compose some finesse club that looks great in the regular season, and that’s as far as we will get. Edited June 15, 2023 by RWJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 minute ago, RWJC said: People loved Cooke, Kesler, Ruutu, Brashear, etc etc amongst a slew of guys who played for us on the edge or over it, but for some reason dismiss it as just revisionist history (and dependency) on guys like that. Sorry, can’t have it both ways. This team’s had always had its share of deterrents and agitators and still needs them badly. Considering bench boss, it’s in our favour to employ a couple again. I’m not talking strictly goons, I’m talking guys who can play actual shifts and be effective. As I’ve mentioned before, a Lucic is a perfect stop gap deterrent while we resolve cap. Like him or not right now, I think most of the passive or “moral projectionist” type fans would rather have EP QH or Podz playing healthy and with a little more room knowing that there is someone who, if required, can retaliate and punish some of the top talent in retaliation. I would rather have a guy that we can afford to lose to suspension for a few games out of protecting teammates, than to not have one. Lucic could be cheap and relatively disposable. The folks who keep harping on the way he plays the game should take a step back and look at what and who else is employed around the league. Kind of tired of hearing about his perceived lack of ethics and sportsmanship. It ain’t ballet. It’s a physical sport and the top teams tend to have both grit and stature. We are severely lacking in both departments. Until we can afford to obtain the young talent that fits this roster and such a need, stop gap is our best and cheapest option. Maybe try looking at the game from ice level, not from some moral high ground that, if you watched any of the playoffs, was more than occasionally put aside in the pursuit of success. Build a team that is playoff-centric and we will start to see success again. Compose some finesse club that looks great in the regular season, and that’s as far as we will get. Exactly, I did not like Cooke here I thought he was a completely reckless and dangerous player, his predatory hit on Savard and numerous kneeing plays proves that. And find it hilarious when people whine about Lucic, Wilson, Marchand etc. and praise Cooke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) Further to my last post, it may prove helpful to some to conceptualize this team’s needs from and through the bench out, rather than some alternate reality where we’re still trying to wrestle with identity. We have established what that looks like going forward now. Tocchet was brought in because we are transitioning style. That’s a fact. Embrace it. It might provide CDC with some more constructive discussion when people are debating their points on what and who we need given the trajectory that has been set in place. Is Lucic the answer? Hardly! He doesn’t fit the speed, youth or 3/4 line ideal, but he is a legit insurance option at a time where options are relatively limited for this club. For those thinking it’s a waste of a roster spot or cap space, we have a few guys still on ELC’s who will definitely be getting time with the big club this year. We can accommodate a low salary short term “presence” player amid all the auditioning. And to to that point, wouldnt you rather have a hired gun to protect those young players should the need ever be required? Let’s cover all the bases. Lucic or someone else, it’s time for a presence again. Schenn is gone, Burroughs, as loyal as he is, is not intimidating. Neither is Joshua, nor is any of the D call ups. We have NO ONE that imposes on other clubs, which unfortunately for us seems to be part of the recipe of recent successful Stanley Cup Playoff teams. It’s time to consider that again, and imho the majority of the fan base would be appreciative of having someone physically dominant on this roster again. finally, do some research and see through past and present how many of his teammates discuss Lucic’s impact and what it provides his team. He may be past his prime, but he is still highly valued by those teammates who benefit from his type of player. Edited June 15, 2023 by RWJC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenalian Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Gurn said: He was a force, but he's older- going to be 36 to start next year he will almost certainly be slower He's been a minus player, for 7 straight years been below 55 pims in 3 of last four seasons 54,46,84 and 43 last year. had 3 fights last year, against Ian Cole, Mathieu Olivier and Kurtis MacDermid 4 Canucks had more scraps and 2 had the same amount. If this guy was available a decade ago, sure-get him. Kyle Burroughs played on defense for about 6 minutes more per game than Lucic, had more scraps and ended up with a better plus/minus Calgary scored 258 and allowed 247 goals Canucks scored 270 and allowed 296 goals. I was just going to say the same thing. Lucic 10 years ago was a deterrent, Lucic now, not so much. There’s probably loads of big speedy AHLers that could be signed who would be more effective enforcers than current Lucic 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, arsenalian said: I was just going to say the same thing. Lucic 10 years ago was a deterrent, Lucic now, not so much. There’s probably loads of big speedy AHLers that could be signed who would be more effective enforcers than current Lucic Then can you please name them…? And if you could, please include the intangibles and experience they bring along with them…like being a former Stanley Cup champion or have put up 20 pts in their last NHL season last year as a so called has been. Edited June 16, 2023 by RWJC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenalian Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 1 minute ago, RWJC said: Then can you please name them…? Nope don’t follow the AHL, but that’s how effective Lucic is these days 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, arsenalian said: Nope don’t follow the AHL, but that’s how effective Lucic is these days Then why are you assuming it’s so easy to find such a player? Edited June 16, 2023 by RWJC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenalian Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Just now, RWJC said: Then why are you assuming it’s so easy to find such a player? It was mostly tongue in cheek. Watching the games Lucic played against the Canucks last year though, I didn’t notice Lucic at all. Like…in a bad way… not like in; “I didn’t notice our rookie D thrown into the fire on the second pairing” type of not noticed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 15 hours ago, arsenalian said: It was mostly tongue in cheek. Watching the games Lucic played against the Canucks last year though, I didn’t notice Lucic at all. Like…in a bad way… not like in; “I didn’t notice our rookie D thrown into the fire on the second pairing” type of not noticed His underlying numbers fell off a cliff last season. He went from a responsible defensively good 4th line player to a liability 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said: His underlying numbers fell off a cliff last season. He went from a responsible defensively good 4th line player to a liability To be fair, Lucic wasn’t put in a role for him to succeed under Sutter. He probably thought this was the same Lucic he coached in LA. It’s a telling story when two of his most common linemates were Huberdeau and Kadri. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 27 minutes ago, shiznak said: To be fair, Lucic wasn’t put in a role for him to succeed under Sutter. He probably thought this was the same Lucic he coached in LA. It’s a telling story when two of his most common linemates were Huberdeau and Kadri. If he is willing to spend time in Abby as well on a one way contract for sure, not sure he is worth a roster spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, arsenalian said: Nope don’t follow the AHL, but that’s how effective Lucic is these days AHL players don't score 20 pts in the NHL, so nope. Edited June 16, 2023 by canuck73_3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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