Trevor Linden speaks on Canucks captaincy and life after hockey

[grandmaster]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

WTH's a "Nassy"?

 

"Nazzy"

 

Dissing Linden gets my hackles up. Don't even go there...reduce it to "charitable work". Right.

 

 

Whatever. 
 

Also it’s not a complete diss to call someone overrated. I still respect him enough to make my 10 spot in that top 10

[chon derry]

28 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Nope. Not sorry either. Lui was the greatest goalie we EVER had and earned every record he broke. 
 

Never saw Tanti or Gradin play. Before my time I became a Canucks fan (began in the early 90’s).

 

Sadly, imo, QH is the only defender I recognize in the top 10.

McLean was mentally stronger than lui there was NO mental break downs when it mattered. He could also handle the puck  ie; make pass’s or clear the puck out along the boards something luongo was horrible at. I attribute 2 loss’s in the 2011 series directly on luongo. Schneider had to come in , in releaf and didn’t fare any better. The other one is all on luongo. That never happened with McLean. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by chon derry

[RU SERIOUS]

39 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Whatever. 
 

Also it’s not a complete diss to call someone overrated. I still respect him enough to make my 10 spot in that top 10

True and at least you didn't rank him 11th.   Just imagine !

[grandmaster]

32 minutes ago, chon derry said:

McLean was mentally stronger than lui there was NO mental break downs when it mattered. He could also handle the puck  ie; make pass’s or clear the puck out along the boards something luongo was horrible at. I attribute 2 loss’s in the 2011 series directly on luongo. Schneider had to come in , in releaf and didn’t fare any better. The other one is all on luongo. That never happened with McLean. 

Lui was spectacular in his wins during that Final. Ya he crapped the bed in the losses but so did EVERYONE else. How do you expect a team to win when they scored only 8 goals in that 7 game Final and with a 0 PP production?
 

Lui was better. 

[chon derry]

32 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Lui was spectacular in his wins during that Final. Ya he crapped the bed in the losses but so did EVERYONE else. How do you expect a team to win when they scored only 8 goals in that 7 game Final and with a 0 PP production?
 

Lui was better. 

How can say lui was better and yet still admit he crapped the bed? McLean played every minute of all 7 games and the separation in goal deferential  was only ONE goal.  1 goal. Lmfao. 

[chon derry]

8 minutes ago, chon derry said:

How can say lui was better and yet still admit he crapped the bed? McLean played every minute of all 7 games and the separation in goal deferential  was only ONE goal.  1 goal. Lmfao. The Canucks failed to show up on home ice for gm 7  whereas game 7 in 94 was decided on hostile territory (NY) by 1 goal  that separated the whole series  1 goal  

 

[grandmaster]

1 hour ago, chon derry said:

How can say lui was better and yet still admit he crapped the bed? McLean played every minute of all 7 games and the separation in goal deferential  was only ONE goal.  1 goal. Lmfao. 

McLean had his team play well in each game. I would guarantee that if the 2011 forwards and defence played in 94, McLean would have dropped his play as well.

[chon derry]

52 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

McLean had his team play well in each game. I would guarantee that if the 2011 forwards and defence played in 94, McLean would have dropped his play as well.

Right. What ever that means ????? 

[chon derry]

54 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

McLean had his team play well in each game. I would guarantee that if the 2011 forwards and defence played in 94, McLean would have dropped his play as well.

So your saying it was the team that failed luongo ?  And made him have the mental lapses. And that same team in front of McLean would have made him do the same.  Because that’s really hypothetical. Here’s some facts. McLean came better prepared as did the team that played in front of him. Don’t give me the 2011 team played injured either because  the 94 team was as well. Your what if’s are absurd. 

[grandmaster]

3 minutes ago, chon derry said:

So your saying it was the team that failed luongo ?  And made him have the mental lapses. And that same team in front of McLean would have made him do the same.  Because that’s really hypothetical. Here’s some facts. McLean came better prepared as did the team that played in front of him. Don’t give me the 2011 team played injured either because  the 94 team was as well. Your what if’s are absurd. 

Are you kidding me? Lui would arrive at the rink well before the others to practice. He was famous for that

[chon derry]

Just now, grandmaster said:

Are you kidding me? Lui would arrive at the rink well before the others to practice. He was famous for that

That even makes his weak mental lapses he displayed in 2 games even more perplexing. He caved under the pressure. And WAS NOT ready. Period ! 

[Ghostsof1915]

5 hours ago, Baratheon said:

“On the ice” Linden outproduced everyone on your list come playoff time.  Higher totals than any of them.  Although Bure Petey and Hughes have higher PPG (in the playoffs), Linden is on par with both Petey and Hughes if you look at the same ages.  Linden didn’t get his points in the bubble though.

 

Playoffs are where it matters most and Trev was every bit as good as people remember him.

He was also a natural RW who was converted to a centre, because Quinn could never get enough depth at centre for some reason.

He pretty much did everything that was asked of him, and more.

 

[grandmaster]

26 minutes ago, chon derry said:

That even makes his weak mental lapses he displayed in 2 games even more perplexing. He caved under the pressure. And WAS NOT ready. Period ! 

You can’t judge him based on 2 games he didn’t play well. His body of work speaks for itself. McLean and Lui are a draw for helping their teams make the SCF but that’s it. Lui goes well beyond;

 

- most wins in a season (252 in 448 games). Kirk had 211 in 516 games.

- most all time shut outs (38). McLean had (20)

- best save percentage .919. Kirk ranked 9th at .887.

- most shutouts in a season (9). McLean had 8th spot with 5

- best GAA at 2.36 while Kirk ranked at 8th spot with 3.28

 

The playoffs are similar in numbers where Lui dominated as first and Kirk lower on that list.

 

Every goaltending record has been dominated by Lui.

 

Lets also remember Lui was big in that 2010 gold medal victory and did great as the back up for the 2014 gold.

 

Lui is in the HHOF and McLean is not for a reason. 

 

Nostalgia is not a fact. It’s your emotion remembering things that were not as good as factually evident.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by grandmaster

[chon derry]

Just now, grandmaster said:

You can’t judge him based on 2 games he didn’t play well. His body of work speaks for itself. McLean and Lui are a draw for helping their teams make the SCF but that’s it. Lui goes well beyond;

 

- most wins in a season (252 in 448 games). Kirk had 211 in 516 games.

- most all time shut outs (38). McLean had (20)

- best save percentage .919. Kirk ranked 9th at .887.

- most shutouts in a season (9). McLean had 8th spot with 5

- best GAA at 2.36 while Kirk ranked at 8th spot with 3.28

 

The playoffs are similar in numbers where Lui dominated as first and Kirk lower on that list.

 

Lets also remember Lui was big in that 2010 gold medal victory and did great as the back up for the 2014 gold.

 

Lui is in the HHOF and McLean is not for a reason. 

 

Nostalgia is not a fact. It’s your emotion remembering things that were not as good as factually evident.

Those 2 games cost the Canucks the Stanley cup   That gives me 2 very big reasons to judge him. So your dam right I’ll judge him. The rest of his career isn’t in question. Like at all. It’s his appearance in the cup final that we’re talking about.  And thats defined him as not quite the winner he could or should have been. 

[chon derry]

@grandmaster this game is on luongo. All by himself.  Schneider’s coming only made it worse. The nux couldn’t overcome the 3 goals early in the 1st. Once again mcleans goal differential for the whole series was 1 goal. The game winning overtime goal. So that particular lose wasn’t on McLean as much as the 3 goals were on luongo. But then there’s the second suspect game luongo had. Any way you look at the 2 goalies. Ask yourself who was really ready ?  Either you weren’t paying attention or your in denial of both series. 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by chon derry

[DownUndaCanuck]

Looking back at Linden's stats, he had a nice streak of 30 goal seasons in his prime but was only really a 70 point player then, his best was 80 points. I know in the later part of his career scoring in general was down but he was never a massive force on the ice. He did play with heart and soul and was a pretty big guy on the ice, but boy did he come alive in the playoffs. He was pretty much PPG in the playoffs his whole career and scored some massive goals.

 

Offence-wise he was always a tier down from say the Sedins and Naslund (funny to see Naslund finished his career with just 2 points more than Linden though), he's more on the comparable list with guys like Burrows and Kesler but it's a sliding scale.

 

Probably one of my top-5 Canucks (along with the Sedins and Luongo) and of course he's over-rated amongst Canucks for good reason.

 

To be really controversial, have a look at his 1988 draft where he was taken 2nd overall. Modano goes first, a bunch of busts after Linden but then look at who we could have drafted - Roenick, Brind'Amour and Selanne. I'd take Teemu over Trevor any day.

[DownUndaCanuck]

4 hours ago, grandmaster said:

Lui was spectacular in his wins during that Final. Ya he crapped the bed in the losses but so did EVERYONE else. How do you expect a team to win when they scored only 8 goals in that 7 game Final and with a 0 PP production?
 

Lui was better. 

Not sure why this is a conversation.

 

McLean is in the BC Hockey Hall of Fame.

Luongo is in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

Comparing the playoff runs is quite tricky. I'd argue McLean had a fantasy-driven team in front of him, Luongo had a battered team in front of him by the time the Bruins series came around. Honestly it reminded me a lot of the Canucks most recent playoff series (was a couple of years ago now...) against Vegas. We blew our lid in the playoff bubble, got extremely jacked up, and just didn't have enough offence in the tank for Vegas. Demko somehow stands on his head and gets us to a game 7 and they win by one goal somehow and we never looked like scoring, we were just gassed.

 

The same goes for the 2011 team, they had been on such an emotional run starting with Chicago in 7, Kesler carried us against Nashville, our PP and the Sedins make light work of a prime SJS team, we take a 2-0 series lead against Boston and honestly after that we just lost all the juice. You can blame Luongo for the bad road losses where we scored a couple of goals but on home ice, the team just disappeared in front of him - couple of clutch goals but 3rd and 4th liners but he had little to no help. The game 7 was obviously a real shame, anything could have happened, but without Lu that's a 4 or 5 game series loss.

 

I think Canucks fans really loved McLean and hyped him up a lot but in the grand scheme of the NHL he was far from a world-class goalie, whereas Luongo was.

[chon derry]

7 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Not sure why this is a conversation.

 

McLean is in the BC Hockey Hall of Fame.

Luongo is in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

Comparing the playoff runs is quite tricky. I'd argue McLean had a fantasy-driven team in front of him, Luongo had a battered team in front of him by the time the Bruins series came around. Honestly it reminded me a lot of the Canucks most recent playoff series (was a couple of years ago now...) against Vegas. We blew our lid in the playoff bubble, got extremely jacked up, and just didn't have enough offence in the tank for Vegas. Demko somehow stands on his head and gets us to a game 7 and they win by one goal somehow and we never looked like scoring, we were just gassed.

 

The same goes for the 2011 team, they had been on such an emotional run starting with Chicago in 7, Kesler carried us against Nashville, our PP and the Sedins make light work of a prime SJS team, we take a 2-0 series lead against Boston and honestly after that we just lost all the juice. You can blame Luongo for the bad road losses where we scored a couple of goals but on home ice, the team just disappeared in front of him - couple of clutch goals but 3rd and 4th liners but he had little to no help. The game 7 was obviously a real shame, anything could have happened, but without Lu that's a 4 or 5 game series loss.

 

I think Canucks fans really loved McLean and hyped him up a lot but in the grand scheme of the NHL he was far from a world-class goalie, whereas Luongo was.

The goal differentials 23-8. Versus 1 less goal than the rangers tells the whole story. But a similar debate would be if Mario Lemieux stayed healthy he would have surpassed Gretzky. But the fact of the matter remains Gretzky stayed healthy whereas Mario never so it’s a moot point. Good teams are deep. Good teams can over come adversity. My point is luongo wasn’t as dialed in as he should have been. After Schneider  came in he let 5 more in ,so 18 of the 23 goals against were on luongo. Regardless of the rest of his career in my opinion he simply put wasn’t ready. Had the scores remained low as was the case in the first 2 games maybe it turns out different. But there’s been nothing to indicate luongo was suffering from any injury’s. 

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, grandmaster said:

I’ll probably get flamed for this but I always thought of Linden as the most over rated player (based on all the fandom on this site).
 

I won’t dispute his charitable work, but on the ice, he was not a great as folks remember him to be. 
 

He just barely makes my top 10:

 

1) Bure

2) Hank

3) Dank

4) Lui

5) Nassy

6) Petey

7) Hughes 

8) Bert

9) Kesler

10) Linden

Huh?   Did you just watch the regular season games or something?   Even when he was almost done and relegated to a third line role, he did his thing when Luongo and Turco were battling it out (when the guys paid the big bucks couldn't get it done) .   Like your list, but the order is screwy.  7 30 plus goal seasons in a row was it...who else did that and where the heck is Smyl?   But of those guys, who did more for us in the post season?  And for Linden, it kind of started in 1989 as a rookie.   Yes he wasn't the most skilled guy, that for sure goes to Bure, Mogilny and maybe EP and QHs at some point.   But having a Linden on your team, was like getting an automatic bye to the second round.   It's also why he's still the leader in those categories (playoffs).   The biggest slight to me, is having him behind Kesler, and well EP and QHs haven't  help take us to the post season yet either.  

Edited June 1, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, chon derry said:

McLean was mentally stronger than lui there was NO mental break downs when it mattered. He could also handle the puck  ie; make pass’s or clear the puck out along the boards something luongo was horrible at. I attribute 2 loss’s in the 2011 series directly on luongo. Schneider had to come in , in releaf and didn’t fare any better. The other one is all on luongo. That never happened with McLean. 

Yep.   McLean was better than Luongo when it mattered for sure.   Luongo was a great goalie too.    Had a couple great series for us.    Turco the best one.  But he didn't match McLeans heroics in 1994.