Trevor Linden speaks on Canucks captaincy and life after hockey

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Not sure why this is a conversation.

 

McLean is in the BC Hockey Hall of Fame.

Luongo is in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

Comparing the playoff runs is quite tricky. I'd argue McLean had a fantasy-driven team in front of him, Luongo had a battered team in front of him by the time the Bruins series came around. Honestly it reminded me a lot of the Canucks most recent playoff series (was a couple of years ago now...) against Vegas. We blew our lid in the playoff bubble, got extremely jacked up, and just didn't have enough offence in the tank for Vegas. Demko somehow stands on his head and gets us to a game 7 and they win by one goal somehow and we never looked like scoring, we were just gassed.

 

The same goes for the 2011 team, they had been on such an emotional run starting with Chicago in 7, Kesler carried us against Nashville, our PP and the Sedins make light work of a prime SJS team, we take a 2-0 series lead against Boston and honestly after that we just lost all the juice. You can blame Luongo for the bad road losses where we scored a couple of goals but on home ice, the team just disappeared in front of him - couple of clutch goals but 3rd and 4th liners but he had little to no help. The game 7 was obviously a real shame, anything could have happened, but without Lu that's a 4 or 5 game series loss.

 

I think Canucks fans really loved McLean and hyped him up a lot but in the grand scheme of the NHL he was far from a world-class goalie, whereas Luongo was.

Simple.  How many playoff rounds did Luongo win for us.   And yes he did win against CHI, but also almost blew that lead.   McLean was a great goalie for awhile - just didn't last as long as Luongo did.   One of my favourite things right now, is watching save percentages crater, as the skill goes up.   McLean had a .923sp in 1994, and went up against two contenders, a very good team and the best team in the league in the final (3 contenders).   Luongo, played on the best team and for sure he was a huge part of that.   And did great until the final, then turned into a yo-yo.  

Edited June 1, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, grandmaster said:

No I’m almost 50 and yes I did watch that. I won’t dismiss some of his big games back then but my opinion still remains the same.

Did you watch him in 1989? 

[Alflives]

Just now, IBatch said:

Did you watch him in 1989? 

Trevor was a fantastic player. But he is behind Bure, Twins, Lou, Kes. So he’s 6-10. 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Trevor was a fantastic player. But he is behind Bure, Twins, Lou, Kes. So he’s 6-10. 

Kesler?  Nope.   Kesler was out of this world for maybe two years.   Linden is a fringe HHOF player.  

[chon derry]

19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Kesler?  Nope.   Kesler was out of this world for maybe two years.   Linden is a fringe HHOF player.  

An good analogy of kesler would have been live hard die  fast whereas lindens career had  more  continuity to it.  both ironically banged up badly in each of their finals the difference  linden scores 2 goals in game 7 and nearly won it on his own. 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, chon derry said:

An good analogy of kesler would have been live hard die  fast whereas lindens career had  more  continuity to it.  both ironically banged up badly in each of their finals the difference  linden scores 2 goals in game 7 and nearly won it on his own. 

Yes.  The difference between the two is one did it shortly after he got the C.  This is where I have the problem with ranking Kesler ahead of Linden.  The only other players we've drafted that is as good as him right off the hop is Bure, QHs and EP.   That's it.   Linden would have scored over 400 goals if he wasn't moved to center to handle Otto.    Pretty close anyways.   Like Kesler he also struggled with injuries and it also affected his career.   One also played in a tougher era than the other.     Kesler was a great player for us for a little while, and a decent player for us for a little while.   We've had others to consider like Sundstrom, Tanti, Smyl and Gradin ...

[chon derry]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes.  The difference between the two is one did it shortly after he got the C.  This is where I have the problem with ranking Kesler ahead of Linden.  The only other players we've drafted that is as good as him right off the hop is Bure, QHs and EP.   That's it.   Linden would have scored over 400 goals if he wasn't moved to center to handle Otto.    Pretty close anyways.   Like Kesler he also struggled with injuries and it also affected his career.   One also played in a tougher era than the other.     Kesler was a great player for us for a little while, and a decent player for us for a little while.   We've had others to consider like Sundstrom, Tanti, Smyl and Gradin ...

The previous top ten list up above I had to chuckle since it fell so short of defencemen through our Canucks history but players in general almost as if players didn’t exist because it was before their time.lol.   Tanti’s numbers at the time were phenomenal  for a team that was as thin on offence as it was. To take it even further back Andre Boudrea had a couple of phenomenal points seasons for the Canucks as well. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by chon derry

[Kevin Biestra]

26 minutes ago, chon derry said:

The previous top ten list up above I had to chuckle since it fell so short of defencemen through our Canucks history but players in general almost as if players didn’t exist because it was before their time.lol.   Tanti’s numbers at the time were phenomenal  for a team that was as thin on offence as it was. To take it even further back Andre Boudrea had a couple of phenomenal points seasons for the Canucks as well. 

 

What Tanti achieved was actually pretty remarkable and he suffers from round numbers being used for milestones.  He scored 39 goals or more five years in a row.  The number of NHLers who have had five 40 goal seasons in a row is phenomenally small.  So is the list with 39+ goals for five years in a row...probably the same number plus Tanti and maybe one other guy...but nobody keeps track of that.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[Kevin Biestra]

Seeing some of these lists I find it difficult to believe some people actually saw Linden and McLean play.  Especially in 1994 but in the five years prior to that and the one year following also.  Which featured another Vezina nomination for Kirk, at least two more comebacks from down 3-1 in a series (in addition to the 1994 run) and...sigh, maybe you had to see it happen to understand why Linden is quite a bit ahead of Kesler.

 

The same thing happens with the 1982 lineup - younger Canucks fans say stuff like Smyl shouldn't be in the rafters - but at least with 1994 the media still does some work to remember and talk about those players so there aren't really any excuses.

 

Go a little further back and something like Gary Smith's near Vezina and Hart Trophy winning year in 1975 has already long ago slipped below the waves.  The best season any Canuck goalie ever had except for Luongo's 47 win season I would say.  Now...Gary who?

[Kevin Biestra]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Simple.  How many playoff rounds did Luongo win for us.   And yes he did win against CHI, but also almost blew that lead.   McLean was a great goalie for awhile - just didn't last as long as Luongo did.   One of my favourite things right now, is watching save percentages crater, as the skill goes up.   McLean had a .923sp in 1994, and went up against two contenders, a very good team and the best team in the league in the final (3 contenders).   Luongo, played on the best team and for sure he was a huge part of that.   And did great until the final, then turned into a yo-yo.  

 

Yeah the thing with a lot of the great Canucks pre-Linden and Ronning is that they were generally done by age 31 or so.  Smyl done as any kind of scorer at all by 30, retired at 33 but it felt like he was 40.  Tanti done offensively by 26, done in the NHL at 28.  Skriko 27/30.  Barry Pederson 27/30.  Dale Tallon 25/29.  Jocelyn Guevremont 24/28.  Oddleifson 26/30.  Bobby Lalonde 27/30.  Ververgaert 24/27.  Kevin McCarthy 26/29.  Rick Lanz 24/30.  Thomas Gradin out of the NHL at 30.  Ron Sedlbauer done at 26.

 

I guess we opened with a Gordie Howe type though.  Orland Kurtenbach actually became the best he ever was at 34 and 35 and lasted a couple years after that.  Dennis Kearns had a pretty good run too.  Didn't have very many of these kinds of guys though.  30 years old was like a brick wall for Canucks.

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[Strawbone]

Loved Trevor as a player but he’s too good at being diplomatic and doesn’t say much interesting in interviews as far as I’m concerned. Certainly not the most colourful character. 

[Ilunga]

6 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

What Tanti achieved was actually pretty remarkable and he suffers from round numbers being used for milestones.  He scored 39 goals or more five years in a row.  The number of NHLers who have had five 40 goal seasons in a row is phenomenally small.  So is the list with 39+ goals for five years in a row...probably the same number plus Tanti and maybe one other guy...but nobody keeps track of that.

 

 

Bobby Hull, Ovie, Gretz, Mario, Mike Bossy, Brett Hull, and that's just off the top of my head. 

It's an elite club.

[Kevin Biestra]

13 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Bobby Hull, Ovie, Gretz, Mario, Mike Bossy, Brett Hull, and that's just off the top of my head. 

It's an elite club.

 

Yeah it's still less than 20 players ever (would be 20 today including Tanti I think) and it was only about 10 when Tanti did it.

 

Another thing most people don't know about the old Canucks is that Dave Babych retired easily in the top 20 of defensemen all time in terms of points...almost top 15.

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah the thing with a lot of the great Canucks pre-Linden and Ronning is that they were generally done by age 31 or so.  Smyl done as any kind of scorer at all by 30, retired at 33 but it felt like he was 40.  Tanti done offensively by 26, done in the NHL at 28.  Skriko 27/30.  Barry Pederson 27/30.  Dale Tallon 25/29.  Jocelyn Guevremont 24/28.  Oddleifson 26/30.  Bobby Lalonde 27/30.  Ververgaert 24/27.  Kevin McCarthy 26/29.  Rick Lanz 24/30.  Thomas Gradin out of the NHL at 30.  Ron Sedlbauer done at 26.

 

I guess we opened with a Gordie Howe type though.  Orland Kurtenbach actually became the best he ever was at 34 and 35 and lasted a couple years after that.  Dennis Kearns had a pretty good run too.  Didn't have very many of these kinds of guys though.  30 years old was like a brick wall for Canucks.

 

Bad luck maybe, coupled with how the game was played maybe.   Linden kind of had two careers too, when his iron man streak was broken (injury), he wasn't the same, and for sure switching to center changed his role and factored into his goal scoring.    Curiously both the Sedins and Naslund peaked in their late 20's.    Naslund kind of petered out too, and Bertuzzi never was the same after the Moore incident.    We also don't have a long list of guys who played 1000 games for us, or guys that played a significant time with us that played 1000 or more games either overall.    

 

Wish we signed Jovo as a free agent.    Went on to do his thing and do it will in PHx.     Babych of course settled in as a second pairing D after 30 for us.   Had some high hopes OEL and Myers would manage that role as well.   Not really. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, Strawbone said:

Loved Trevor as a player but he’s too good at being diplomatic and doesn’t say much interesting in interviews as far as I’m concerned. Certainly not the most colourful character. 

Compared to Naslund, he was Brett Hull or Roenick interesting in his player interviews.   He also played in a way different era, back then all you got was a sound bite if you were the first star of the game ...  and maybe he Captain hung back and said a few words but usually you got nothing.   Started to change in the Messier era a little ... and by Naslunds, he was interviewed fairly often, wearing his under armour and said the exact same things each and every time more or less - with no emotion win or lose.   Now it's like every non regular season game is pumped up like a prize fight, and the coach has to spend way too much time doing pre and post game stuff.   It's actually both silly and ridiculous.   If anything save that for the conference final and the finals. 

 

As for his president stuff, didn't mind how he handled the media at all.   Defended the Sedins often enough.   And did more than Rutherford has so far as well.   Town meetings every year for seasons ticket holders etc...not even sure when the last time was they did one of those.   Was a little tough to watch him in the lottery, and his face when we slipped 2 or 3 spots.   At least aside from OJ, we did ok despite that. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

29 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Bad luck maybe, coupled with how the game was played maybe.   Linden kind of had two careers too, when his iron man streak was broken (injury), he wasn't the same, and for sure switching to center changed his role and factored into his goal scoring.    Curiously both the Sedins and Naslund peaked in their late 20's.    Naslund kind of petered out too, and Bertuzzi never was the same after the Moore incident.    We also don't have a long list of guys who played 1000 games for us, or guys that played a significant time with us that played 1000 or more games either overall.    

 

Wish we signed Jovo as a free agent.    Went on to do his thing and do it will in PHx.     Babych of course settled in as a second pairing D after 30 for us.   Had some high hopes OEL and Myers would manage that role as well.   Not really. 

 

Yeah that injury kind of fast forwarded Linden to his Penguins Trottier days.

[-DLC-]

On 6/2/2023 at 4:39 AM, IBatch said:

Bad luck maybe, coupled with how the game was played maybe.   Linden kind of had two careers too, when his iron man streak was broken (injury), he wasn't the same, and for sure switching to center changed his role and factored into his goal scoring.    Curiously both the Sedins and Naslund peaked in their late 20's.    Naslund kind of petered out too, and Bertuzzi never was the same after the Moore incident.    We also don't have a long list of guys who played 1000 games for us, or guys that played a significant time with us that played 1000 or more games either overall.    

 

Wish we signed Jovo as a free agent.    Went on to do his thing and do it will in PHx.     Babych of course settled in as a second pairing D after 30 for us.   Had some high hopes OEL and Myers would manage that role as well.   Not really. 

Was different for sure....they did NOT have the same access to the rehab and training they have today. Makes a difference. 

 

A different time back then and I'd be interested to see a comparison in career span between the past and the here and now.