[3-Way Trade] Blue Jackets acquire Ivan Provorov; Flyers acquire Cal Petersen, Sean Walker, Helge Grans, 2023 1st-round pick, 2024 2nd-round pick, conditional 2024 2nd-round pick; Kings acquire Kevin Connauton, Hayden Hodgson

[wai_lai416]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So.  Hold up here.

 

he's a cap dump?

 

So we took a cap dump back in the trade for Horvat?  That makes this trade look far worse.  Unless that doesn't suit the narrative of course

 

Unless of course you're EXACTLY the person I spoke of who craps on everything Canucks unless it suits your narrative.  middle 6 wingers have value.  Period.  We literally pay out the arse for them every off season.  AB is not a cap dump.  Not with 1 single season left on his contract.  Not against a long list of players just like him who have been traded over the past few years without sweeteners in trades fans here moan about happening that we're never involved in.

 

You can have your opinion and you can sit in a room with EP and juggle it for all I care.  But he is not a cap dump.  This management paying to get rid of his contract does suggest they are truly bad at their jobs though.

 

Now stay on topic, this is about a 3 way trade involving the Kings getting fleeced.  not about yet another long running gripe about everything canuck

lmao whatever suits your narrative.. now stay on topic?? you are the one that went off topic

[DrJockitch]

7 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

1) you are wrong, this is a playoff team. The main components are there. The mix has been tinkered with and the new general (coach) is the also the right fit. 
 

2) that move was JB’s desperation to save his job. This new management is not under the same gun and won’t make a move like that

 

 

Well when Bruce came in to coach us he showed we are clearly a playoff team.  We just need a full season with Bruce and we should be fine. 

[grandmaster]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

Well when Bruce came in to coach us he showed we are clearly a playoff team.  We just need a full season with Bruce and we should be fine. 

We since addressed the defensive side of the game and brought in a legit top 4 RHD. BB’s wins were mostly based on elite goaltending and offence. RT has them “playing the right way”

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, grandmaster said:

We since addressed the defensive side of the game and brought in a legit top 4 RHD. BB’s wins were mostly based on elite goaltending and offence. RT has them “playing the right way”

Bruce's bump was better than Tocchet's. 

[grandmaster]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

Bruce's bump was better than Tocchet's. 

Not as sustainable though. Many of the analysts believe the overall trajectory is better with RT’s style of coaching 

[Timråfan]

So how can we compare this deal to Horvat/Hronek?

Best deal? 

[grandmaster]

Just now, Timråfan said:

So how can we compare this deal to Horvat/Hronek?

Best deal? 

We rocked that trade. 
 

[DrJockitch]

Just now, grandmaster said:

Not as sustainable though. Many of the analysts believe the overall trajectory is better with RT’s style of coaching 

Second winningest coach in NHL history, an impressive .626 after coaching in Vancouver.  What would he know.

Tocchet's overall record as coach .485.

The problem wasn't coaching it was Benning and then JR.

[DrJockitch]

3 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

So how can we compare this deal to Horvat/Hronek?

Best deal? 

Hronek cost 17th OA and a second for 1 year no retention.

Provorov cost a first they got for UFA 22nd, a 2nd but has 2 years and 30% retention.

We probably overpaid by a second but we already knew that.

[Timråfan]

4 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Hronek cost 17th OA and a second for 1 year no retention.

Provorov cost a first they got for UFA 22nd, a 2nd but has 2 years and 30% retention.

We probably overpaid by a second but we already knew that.

Aren’t we supposed to take Gavrikov also in this equation?

[DrJockitch]

2 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Aren’t we supposed to take Gavrikov also in this equation?

Yeah, they got the 22nd for Gavrikov, he was the UFA.

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

You can be smug and smile all you want.  but we paid out the arse to dump one years worth of contracts a couple seasons back.  Gave up a 9th OA pick and more.

 

You can sit and be smug and smile about it, but if this management group is willing to pay to dump a contract like Beauviliier or Myers for one single season they are criminally stupid.

 

This team could dump OEL, Myers, AB, Boeser and every person on IR right now and would spend every dime in freedom on free agents and STILL not make it past the first round.  This is still not a playoff team and buying out the last year of any of the expiring contracts is idiocy

Agreed, but there is one very reasonable caveat to cost dumping contracts which is having shopping space in the short term because you never know who or what will come available to market that fits a 5 year fundamental need (eg. 3rd line C, top 3-4 RD).  How else do you build the foundation to become a playoff team other than marinating draft picks and hoping that concept eventually works out in the same time frame?

 

Remember who owns this club…from one perspective it’s great because we will always spend to cap (or over) to try and be competitive.
On the other hand, there is no patience, just business, and an urgency to manufacture a club rather than let it build organically. 
Given we know the mandate, it’s to be expected that a buyout will come to fruition if need be and that money already earmarked for a replacement. 
 

May not be a winning strategy at all as proven to a degree as of late, but, it’s at least better than being lame duck and content in that situation.

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, RWJC said:

Agreed, but there is one very reasonable caveat to cost dumping contracts which is having shopping space in the short term because you never know who or what will come available to market that fits a 5 year fundamental need (eg. 3rd line C, top 3-4 RD).  How else do you build the foundation to become a playoff team other than marinating draft picks and hoping that concept eventually works out in the same time frame?

 

Remember who owns this club…from one perspective it’s great because we will always spend to cap (or over) to try and be competitive.
On the other hand, there is no patience, just business, and an urgency to manufacture a club rather than let it build organically. 
Given we know the mandate, it’s to be expected that a buyout will come to fruition if need be and that money already earmarked for a replacement. 
 

May not be a winning strategy at all as proven to a degree as of late, but, it’s at least better than being lame duck and content in that situation.

This is the long standing conventional wisdom but there are holes in it.  

Not all positions hold the same value.  D and C have a premium.

Not all handedness has the same value, right handedness adds a premium.

These need to be considered along with size, speed, vision etc.

I also think you need to look at what is in the pipeline.

 

Think of it more like a fantasy draft.  You want the best players you can get but you also need to fill positions.

If you go into a year and just draft wingers (thanks Benning) and then assume you will be able to trade for RHD and Centres you are going to be paying a larger premium than the gap that was between the winger you picked and what was likely the next best centre or D.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Looks like Danny Briere has been given the green light to do a full on rebuild. 

 

Goes to show, clearing significant cap space comes at a significant cost. Not sure Canucks can do that sort of cap clearing with that sort of cost. 

Cal Peterson is a pure cap clear. 

 

5 million for a guy that's not playing in the NHL. 

 

Different from Beauvillier, Garland, Myers, and Boeser

[cripplereh]

Let the trades begin.

 

I think all team got something but more should come.The CBJ need more to be a playoff team.But they moved up.

 

Philly looks to rebuild and LA got cap room.

[cripplereh]

For us I would love to see 

 

Miller

Myers

BB

 

2 of these if not all gone and us getting a young C back and a player or two plus picks.

 

Let's face it BB can score someone will take him.Miller proven 1c that can do it all.Myers a team like the hawks could use and get a second at tdl if he will go there.

 

We have options and Beau might get us something else so we have trading pieces.

[grandmaster]

41 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Second winningest coach in NHL history, an impressive .626 after coaching in Vancouver.  What would he know.

Tocchet's overall record as coach .485.

The problem wasn't coaching it was Benning and then JR.

When BB was asked why the team would have ridiculous breakdowns in play from time to time, he had no answers. He looked puzzled and completely baffled.
 

The guy coached one of the best top 5 players of all time in OV and could never win the Cup. Why do you suppose is that?
 

His coaching had limitations and if you can’t see that and how RT is better for this team based on their improved defensive play then I can’t say much more to you.

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, grandmaster said:

When BB was asked why the team would have ridiculous breakdowns in play from time to time, he had no answers. He looked puzzled and completely baffled.
 

The guy coached one of the best top 5 players of all time in OV and could never win the Cup. Why do you suppose is that?
 

His coaching had limitations and if you can’t see that and how RT is better for this team based on their improved defensive play then I can’t say much more to you.

My point is only that coaching bumps are meaningless.  This team is actually built more to play BB's style.

Our current makeup does not suit the way Tocchet coaches, as he and the management has highlighted.

I am hoping for some major moves this offseason to build a team that suits Tocchet but I think I will be bitterly disappointed.

[grandmaster]

1 minute ago, cripplereh said:

For us I would love to see 

 

Miller

Myers

BB

 

2 of these if not all gone and us getting a young C back and a player or two plus picks.

 

Let's face it BB can score someone will take him.Miller proven 1c that can do it all.Myers a team like the hawks could use and get a second at tdl if he will go there.

 

We have options and Beau might get us something else so we have trading pieces.

Miller is a core piece. He is off the table unless another team makes an offer they can’t refuse. We would never make the playoffs without his ability to quarterback the PP the way he does and power that second line centre position. His other intangibles regarding hits, fights and leadership are also highly valued among the team, coach and management.
 

Miller is staying and if he goes I’m done with this team

[grandmaster]

3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

My point is only that coaching bumps are meaningless.  This team is actually built more to play BB's style.

Our current makeup does not suit the way Tocchet coaches, as he and the management has highlighted.

I am hoping for some major moves this offseason to build a team that suits Tocchet but I think I will be bitterly disappointed.

We’ll see this coming up season and let’s hope neither of us get disappointed!

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by grandmaster