[RUMOUR] Carolina looking to make major moves

[wai_lai416]

3 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I’ll believe it when I see it

sure but there are more teams with cap space that are playoff hopefuls than u think ottawa buffalo columbus the 3 up and coming teams that have the cap space and the draft capital to make it happen. nashville if they want to retool can make it happen.. seattle have the space for it not sure if they need it.. Edmonton actually can fit in a pesce and still be under the cap at 20man and fill the 23 mand roster with minimum depth players. so there are plenty of teams of teams out there that would like to add a pesce.. and not against the cap like u said.

 

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Chatfield was pushing 23 minutes a night last year for several games while Slavin was injured with no reduction at all in his play. He finished #2 overall in the NHL for Dmen in on ice expected GA per 60 minutes and #6 overall in high danger shot attempts. He’s on the 3rd pairing because Burns and Pesce are ahead of him. He’s easily a top 4 Dman on many teams including Vancouver. He’d slot right in with Hughes. 

If he's that good they would have given him a lot more dZ starts, more minutes and tougher opposition while their top guys were not injured. This would keep their top 4 fresh and open up more scoring opportunities for them with more oZs's.

 

Lots of bottom pairing guys are able to elevate their play for several games. Doesn't mean they can sustain it for the season. And do you think a cup contender would risk putting a bottom pairing guy in their top 4 to start the season? What happens when another top 4 guy gets injured? That would be a poor strategy for CAR. Chatfield is fine as a 7th Dman or a sheltered 3rd pairing Dman on a contender. He's not a top 4 Dman on a contender.

 

VAN is not a cup contender, so I would have no trouble trying Chatfield on our top pairing with Hughes. I'm not confident he would work out there but we don't have much to lose compared to CAR.

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure but there are more teams with cap space that are playoff hopefuls than u think ottawa buffalo columbus the 3 up and coming teams that have the cap space and the draft capital to make it happen. nashville if they want to retool can make it happen.. seattle have the space for it not sure if they need it.. Edmonton actually can fit in a pesce and still be under the cap at 20man and fill the 23 mand roster with minimum depth players. so there are plenty of teams of teams out there that would like to add a pesce.. and not against the cap like u said.

 

Alright.  I was thinking true contenders and places that wouldn’t show up on an NTC.  Edmonton, Buffalo, Ottawa and Columbus would be on most 15 team no trade lists.  
 

Seattle has no need and Nashville has Josi, Schenn and Fabbro and doesn’t look like they’re poised to give up assets to push.  4 of those teams didn’t make the playoffs last year.  
 

But yes, some teams could add without giving a contract back.  
 

Where do you think he goes then?  (if anywhere?) 

 

In any case, the main whole point of my post was to say dangling an unprotected 1st was the best asset we had to offer. I’m curious who would take that gamble.  I don’t think it happens - and I’m fine standing pat - I just think it’s interesting.  
 

What’s admittedly not interesting to me is cap discussion of our own team, let alone other teams.  But if we’re going to play fantasy proposals we’d need to send something back.  Myers would at least be worth a spin until the deadline to see if he fits.  He’d play well with any of Carolina’s LD IMO and would be a big body in the playoffs where the east is brutal right now. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by ilduce39

[wai_lai416]

16 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Alright.  I was thinking true contenders and places that wouldn’t show up on an NTC.  Edmonton, Buffalo, Ottawa and Columbus would be on most 15 team no trade lists.  
 

Seattle has no need and Nashville has Josi, Schenn and Fabbro and doesn’t look like they’re poised to give up assets to push.  4 of those teams didn’t make the playoffs last year.  
 

But yes, some teams could add without giving a contract back.  
 

Where do you think he goes then?  (if anywhere?) 

 

In any case, the main whole point of my post was to say dangling an unprotected 1st was the best asset we had to offer. I’m curious who would take that gamble.  I don’t think it happens - and I’m fine standing pat - I just think it’s interesting.  
 

What’s admittedly not interesting to me is cap discussion of our own team, let alone other teams.  But if we’re going to play fantasy proposals we’d need to send something back.  Myers would at least be worth a spin until the deadline to see if he fits.  He’d play well with any of Carolina’s LD IMO and would be a big body in the playoffs where the east is brutal right now. 

nashville is already reported very interested in pesce as he would slot in beside josi ahead of barrie and be a direct replacement for barrie next season when his contract expires. nashville seems like a very ideal place for pesce as they have 11 draft picks next season.. and they are not going to rebuild with a forsberg signed during his prime so it make sense if they go for it

 

buffalo and columbus are both up and coming and looks to have a decent future.. they might be on his no trade list or they might not.. i mean he have to submit 15 teams he doesn't want to be traded to but doesn't necessary means all 15 teams he refuse to go to.. the management can always go to him and ask. i have no issue with dangling an unprotected 1st.. let's face it.. this team will never be bad enough to have a legitimate chance at the lottery.. they'll prolly be in the 14-18 range.. adding a pesce and re-signing him turns our questionable defence to a legitimate defence and prolly one of the best in our division.. not just for this year but for years to come.. having a top 3 of hronek pesce hughes and hopefully Willander in a few years will give us a rock solid defence for years to come.. 

 

i'm under the believes all our picks/prospect minus willander and maybe lemm is in play.. i doubt PA could convince FA to buy out OEL and tell him the plan is to sign some stop gap player the next couple years and then we'll be a contender.. if his plan was to buy out OEL and use the 2 beneficial cap season for stop gap players.. that's not really much of a plan.. he's 100% going to be doing what he can to make the playoff this year.. otherwise all his moves makes 0 sense ie keeping miller buying out OEL and then going into the next 2 season and hope we play better while waiting for lemm and wallinder to get in the nhl.

[NMHockey]

2 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Firstly, because Pesce is worth a lot more than that in a trade. Secondly, because Carolina still have a need for a top 4 Dman and until they fill that role, then trading Pesce does not make their team better.

 

I'm not sure how you think this trade creates $3.6m of cap space. Pesce $4.025m out, Beau (50%) $2.075m in = $1.95m in cap space created. Not $3.6m

 

In isolation adding Beauvillier is not a bad move for any team. However, when you consider the big picture (they already have much better forwards than Beau) and that they would depleting their D to get him, then it doesn't stack up for CAR.

 

Because Rathbone is a fringe NHL player that would not make their roster. And as soon as CAR waive Rathbone he will be picked up on waivers by a lesser team.

 

McDonough might be an NHL player one day, but he won't help CAR right now. And they are in win now mode.

 

Adding a 3rd and 4th round pick is never bad, except when it costs you a 2nd round pick (and the conditions under which CAR got that 2nd round pick have no influence on its value, i.e. they're not looking to give it away because they got it for "free")

This is probably the fourth time I've said this but anyways once again... Carolina needs cap space and they are struggling to re-sign Pesce regardless. It has nothing to do with them being a contender now and worrying about losing a solid top four D. It's just about getting cap space and getting any value at all for Pesce before he walks. As @Elias Pettersson said as well..

Jalen Chatfield has shown he can handle bigger minutes and he is ready for more responsibility. Not to mention they have

Dylan Coghlan who is ready for more minutes AND as I said they are re-acquiring DeAngelo tomorrow. That is THREE RHDs to fill in for Pesces presence for now. If need be they can and will acquire another D-man at the trade deadline. So all in all getting Beauvillier (retained), two prospects, two picks, and more cap space is a big win. And Rathbone is not a fringe NHL player. He is a top prospect that our former draft guru Judd Brackett found and he was pushing management to draft Rathbone. Rathbone is a rare character kid who has been taking care of his autistic brother for years. He has loads of perseverance and has been stalled by two freak injuries off of two dangerous cross checks in the AHL. I've seen Rathbone play live and that kid can run a powerplay and has alot of jump in his crossovers and mobility. As for McDonough he is a solid prospect thrown into the deal and gets to go with his best friend Rathbone. 

 

Also in my deal for Carolina it is $4.025 Million out (Pesce). Then $2.075 Million in

(Beauvillier at 50% retention), plus Rathbone at $850,000. $4,025,000 cap space added minus $2,075,000 and $850,000 is

$1,100,000 cap space added but then you factor in Poolmans LTIR in the deal and they can exceed the cap limit by Poolmans $2,500,000 which is $3,600,000 in cap space essentially added. Add on the fact they currently already have $3,320,583 in cap space and this deal brings more cap flexibility for them.

 

"They already have much better forwards than Beau" is not the point and nor is it true.

In Carolinas bottom two forward lines none of Noesen, Martinook, or Fast are better players than Beauvillier. Beauvillier is younger, healthier, MUCH faster, has more upside, and is as good a postseason performer as any of them. It is about adding more depth up front which is their main goal this off-season. Adding a skilled forward who's also a proven clutch playoff performer is perfect for them (they could have used some OT clutch goals in that Florida series!). 

 

When you break down the value of this deal and the need to trade Pesce as I mentioned above you will see that Carolina should have to balance it out by adding the Philadelphia 2nd that as I mentioned they essentially got for free.

 

Pesce

for

Beauvillier (retained)

Rathbone 
McDonough

2026 3rd

 

Then Philadelphias 2024 2nd is swapped for New Jerseys 2024 4th (the one Vancouver got in the Lazar trade). This is to balance out the value as we're giving up Beauvillier, two prospects, replacing CARs 2026 3rd that they lost in the Gostisbehere deal, and we're retaining on Beauvillier on top of giving them more cap flexibility.

 

 

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

If he's that good they would have given him a lot more dZ starts, more minutes and tougher opposition while their top guys were not injured. This would keep their top 4 fresh and open up more scoring opportunities for them with more oZs's.

 

Lots of bottom pairing guys are able to elevate their play for several games. Doesn't mean they can sustain it for the season. And do you think a cup contender would risk putting a bottom pairing guy in their top 4 to start the season? What happens when another top 4 guy gets injured? That would be a poor strategy for CAR. Chatfield is fine as a 7th Dman or a sheltered 3rd pairing Dman on a contender. He's not a top 4 Dman on a contender.

 

VAN is not a cup contender, so I would have no trouble trying Chatfield on our top pairing with Hughes. I'm not confident he would work out there but we don't have much to lose compared to CAR.

Pretty much.

 

It’s the same thing with Burroughs. He actually had really good underlying numbers. Does that mean he’s a top 4? No way.

[BigTramFan]

14 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

This is probably the fourth time I've said this but anyways once again...

You have explained yourself very well. There's no need to repeat it. There is no problem with my comprehension either. The problem is that I do not agree with your assessment of value in the proposed trade. Doesn't matter if you say it 10 times, 100 times, it does not stack up.

 

Did you post it on Capfriendly? Did you get some feedback from CAR fans on this?

 

14 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

Carolina needs cap space and they are struggling to re-sign Pesce regardless. It has nothing to do with them being a contender now and worrying about losing a solid top four D.

Carolina DO NOT need any cap space currently. Their NHL team, with the likely 21 players they would currently keep on their roster, still gives them $4.47m in cap space. That is the space they have to improve their roster. They don't need to panic about resigning Pesce for 2024-25 right now, he is already signed for this season and included in the 21 players I mentioned. 

 

As I have said a few times, the only way I see CAR trading Pesce is if they can line up a better player for that top 4 RD slot.

 

20 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

Jalen Chatfield has shown he can handle bigger minutes and he is ready for more responsibility. Not to mention they have

Dylan Coghlan who is ready for more minutes AND as I said they are re-acquiring DeAngelo tomorrow. That is THREE RHDs to fill in for Pesces presence for now.

I disagree that any of those players can fill the role of Pesce as a top 4 Dman. It would require Chatfield to move from 14 mins to 21 mins per game, playing against much higher quality of opposition. CAR are not dumb enough to take that risk in a season where they are looking to contend for the cup.

 

21 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

And Rathbone is not a fringe NHL player. He is a top prospect that our former draft guru Judd Brackett found and he was pushing management to draft Rathbone. Rathbone is a rare character kid who has been taking care of his autistic brother for years.

Rathbone is a great human. But your opinions of him don't change the FACT that he is a fringe NHL player...28 games in 3 seasons proves he is a fringe NHL player. He *might* make the VAN roster this season. He wouldn't make it onto the CAR roster. Remember Bear who couldn't crack their lineup and then came and played top 4 in VAN?

 

24 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

Also in my deal for Carolina it is $4.025 Million out (Pesce). Then $2.075 Million in

(Beauvillier at 50% retention), plus Rathbone at $850,000. $4,025,000 cap space added minus $2,075,000 and $850,000 is

$1,100,000 cap space added but then you factor in Poolmans LTIR in the deal and they can exceed the cap limit by Poolmans $2,500,000 which is $3,600,000 in cap space essentially added. Add on the fact they currently already have $3,320,583 in cap space and this deal brings more cap flexibility for them.

Sorry but that is not how LTIR works. Poolman's cap counts against the total cap, but CAR get $2.5m relief for it, so there is no gain in cap space by taking on Poolman. CAR would then be operating in LTIR and there are also lots of negative reasons for not operating in LTIR (which I don't want to get into), so taking on Poolman is not a positive for CAR.

 

27 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

In Carolinas bottom two forward lines none of Noesen, Martinook, or Fast are better players than Beauvillier. Beauvillier is younger, healthier, MUCH faster, has more upside, and is as good a postseason performer as any of them

For the role that these guys play, they are better than Beauvillier. He is not a good defensive player. And he is not good enough to be in CAR's top 6.

 

Martinook-Staal-Fast is CAR's shutdown line. They have proven chemistry, play against top competition and had SF% of almost 60%. Beau is not going to split those guys up. 

 

Noesen is on a $762k cap hit (less than half Beau at 50% retained) and plays a good defensive game. Perfect 4th line player for the price. 36 pts last season with avTOI 12 mins. Beau scored 40 pts with avTOI of 16 mins.

 

CAR aren't going to trade Pesce to put Beauvillier on their 4th line. There are better and cheaper options in free agency for that role.

 

33 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

When you break down the value of this deal and the need to trade Pesce as I mentioned above you will see that Carolina should have to balance it out by adding the Philadelphia 2nd that as I mentioned they essentially got for free.

No. It is poor value for CAR no matter how you try and explain it. They wouldn't even do the deal without adding a 2nd round pick.

 

[mll]

2 hours ago, NMHockey said:

This is probably the fourth time I've said this but anyways once again... Carolina needs cap space and they are struggling to re-sign Pesce regardless. It has nothing to do with them being a contender now and worrying about losing a solid top four D. It's just about getting cap space and getting any value at all for Pesce before he walks. As @Elias Pettersson said as well..

Jalen Chatfield has shown he can handle bigger minutes and he is ready for more responsibility. Not to mention they have

Dylan Coghlan who is ready for more minutes AND as I said they are re-acquiring DeAngelo tomorrow. That is THREE RHDs to fill in for Pesces presence for now. If need be they can and will acquire another D-man at the trade deadline. So all in all getting Beauvillier (retained), two prospects, two picks, and more cap space is a big win. And Rathbone is not a fringe NHL player. He is a top prospect that our former draft guru Judd Brackett found and he was pushing management to draft Rathbone. Rathbone is a rare character kid who has been taking care of his autistic brother for years. He has loads of perseverance and has been stalled by two freak injuries off of two dangerous cross checks in the AHL. I've seen Rathbone play live and that kid can run a powerplay and has alot of jump in his crossovers and mobility. As for McDonough he is a solid prospect thrown into the deal and gets to go with his best friend Rathbone. 

 

Also in my deal for Carolina it is $4.025 Million out (Pesce). Then $2.075 Million in

(Beauvillier at 50% retention), plus Rathbone at $850,000. $4,025,000 cap space added minus $2,075,000 and $850,000 is

$1,100,000 cap space added but then you factor in Poolmans LTIR in the deal and they can exceed the cap limit by Poolmans $2,500,000 which is $3,600,000 in cap space essentially added. Add on the fact they currently already have $3,320,583 in cap space and this deal brings more cap flexibility for them.

 

"They already have much better forwards than Beau" is not the point and nor is it true.

In Carolinas bottom two forward lines none of Noesen, Martinook, or Fast are better players than Beauvillier. Beauvillier is younger, healthier, MUCH faster, has more upside, and is as good a postseason performer as any of them. It is about adding more depth up front which is their main goal this off-season. Adding a skilled forward who's also a proven clutch playoff performer is perfect for them (they could have used some OT clutch goals in that Florida series!). 

 

When you break down the value of this deal and the need to trade Pesce as I mentioned above you will see that Carolina should have to balance it out by adding the Philadelphia 2nd that as I mentioned they essentially got for free.

 

Pesce

for

Beauvillier (retained)

Rathbone 
McDonough

2026 3rd

 

Then Philadelphias 2024 2nd is swapped for New Jerseys 2024 4th (the one Vancouver got in the Lazar trade). This is to balance out the value as we're giving up Beauvillier, two prospects, replacing CARs 2026 3rd that they lost in the Gostisbehere deal, and we're retaining on Beauvillier on top of giving them more cap flexibility.

 

 

 

LTIR doesn't work like that - Poolman is a negative for Carolina as it was for Vancouver.

 

LTIR contracts count against the cap.  It's on both sides of the equations where instead of being

 

Regular roster <=  83.5M it becomes

Regular roster + LTIR contract <= 83.5M + LTIR contract

 

Only LTIR contracts can exceed the cap - the regular roster is still under the cap limit.  

 

In LTIR the unused cap space gets forfeited while if a team can avoid LTIR they can bank it.  It's how Minnesota had nearly 18M in cap space at the TDL and were able to cover Boldy's bonus at season's end while Vancouver had to push Kuzmenko's 850K bonus to this season's cap.  

 

Say a regular roster of 82M and no LTIR contract.  Each day that team can set 1.5M aside for future use - 1.5M being the difference between 83.5M and 82M.

 

If that same team has a 3M LTIR contract they could go as high as 86.5M as 83.5M for the regular roster + 3M for the LTIR contract which is the only contract that can exceed the cap.  If their regular roster is at 82M their total cap hit is 85M.  That's less than the possible 86.5M - ie they still have 1.5M of unused LTIR cap space.  That unused LTIR cap space gets forfeited while if they hadn't had that LTIR contract on their books they could have banked it.

 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, NMHockey said:

This is probably the fourth time I've said this but anyways once again... Carolina needs cap space and they are struggling to re-sign Pesce regardless. It has nothing to do with them being a contender now and worrying about losing a solid top four D. It's just about getting cap space and getting any value at all for Pesce before he walks. As @Elias Pettersson said as well..

Jalen Chatfield has shown he can handle bigger minutes and he is ready for more responsibility. Not to mention they have

Dylan Coghlan who is ready for more minutes AND as I said they are re-acquiring DeAngelo tomorrow. That is THREE RHDs to fill in for Pesces presence for now. If need be they can and will acquire another D-man at the trade deadline. So all in all getting Beauvillier (retained), two prospects, two picks, and more cap space is a big win. And Rathbone is not a fringe NHL player. He is a top prospect that our former draft guru Judd Brackett found and he was pushing management to draft Rathbone. Rathbone is a rare character kid who has been taking care of his autistic brother for years. He has loads of perseverance and has been stalled by two freak injuries off of two dangerous cross checks in the AHL. I've seen Rathbone play live and that kid can run a powerplay and has alot of jump in his crossovers and mobility. As for McDonough he is a solid prospect thrown into the deal and gets to go with his best friend Rathbone. 

 

Also in my deal for Carolina it is $4.025 Million out (Pesce). Then $2.075 Million in

(Beauvillier at 50% retention), plus Rathbone at $850,000. $4,025,000 cap space added minus $2,075,000 and $850,000 is

$1,100,000 cap space added but then you factor in Poolmans LTIR in the deal and they can exceed the cap limit by Poolmans $2,500,000 which is $3,600,000 in cap space essentially added. Add on the fact they currently already have $3,320,583 in cap space and this deal brings more cap flexibility for them.

 

"They already have much better forwards than Beau" is not the point and nor is it true.

In Carolinas bottom two forward lines none of Noesen, Martinook, or Fast are better players than Beauvillier. Beauvillier is younger, healthier, MUCH faster, has more upside, and is as good a postseason performer as any of them. It is about adding more depth up front which is their main goal this off-season. Adding a skilled forward who's also a proven clutch playoff performer is perfect for them (they could have used some OT clutch goals in that Florida series!). 

 

When you break down the value of this deal and the need to trade Pesce as I mentioned above you will see that Carolina should have to balance it out by adding the Philadelphia 2nd that as I mentioned they essentially got for free.

 

Pesce

for

Beauvillier (retained)

Rathbone 
McDonough

2026 3rd

 

Then Philadelphias 2024 2nd is swapped for New Jerseys 2024 4th (the one Vancouver got in the Lazar trade). This is to balance out the value as we're giving up Beauvillier, two prospects, replacing CARs 2026 3rd that they lost in the Gostisbehere deal, and we're retaining on Beauvillier on top of giving them more cap flexibility.

 

 

Exactly! 
very well put and 110% correct. 
Your offer for Pesce is more than fair. 

[D.B Cooper]

1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, mll said:

 

 

 

 

 

Watch out fellas.  
He is an expert and is related to hockey players.  
He doesn’t need you to explain his incredibly obvious errors in player valuation, or his lack of understanding with the LTIR.  
 

If he tells you Rathbone, who at 24 can’t make the Canucks, has tons of value to the Canes…. You best believe it!

If he says Beauvillier would be a top 6 on a contender…. It’s true!

 

If you go to a hockey board with folks from all over NA, they are starting the offers with a 1st and a good prospect, but our loose change, pocket lint, an old button and a peppermint…… that’s the winner

[NMHockey]

2 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

You have explained yourself very well. There's no need to repeat it. There is no problem with my comprehension either. The problem is that I do not agree with your assessment of value in the proposed trade. Doesn't matter if you say it 10 times, 100 times, it does not stack up.

 

Did you post it on Capfriendly? Did you get some feedback from CAR fans on this?

 

Carolina DO NOT need any cap space currently. Their NHL team, with the likely 21 players they would currently keep on their roster, still gives them $4.47m in cap space. That is the space they have to improve their roster. They don't need to panic about resigning Pesce for 2024-25 right now, he is already signed for this season and included in the 21 players I mentioned. 

 

As I have said a few times, the only way I see CAR trading Pesce is if they can line up a better player for that top 4 RD slot.

 

I disagree that any of those players can fill the role of Pesce as a top 4 Dman. It would require Chatfield to move from 14 mins to 21 mins per game, playing against much higher quality of opposition. CAR are not dumb enough to take that risk in a season where they are looking to contend for the cup.

 

Rathbone is a great human. But your opinions of him don't change the FACT that he is a fringe NHL player...28 games in 3 seasons proves he is a fringe NHL player. He *might* make the VAN roster this season. He wouldn't make it onto the CAR roster. Remember Bear who couldn't crack their lineup and then came and played top 4 in VAN?

 

Sorry but that is not how LTIR works. Poolman's cap counts against the total cap, but CAR get $2.5m relief for it, so there is no gain in cap space by taking on Poolman. CAR would then be operating in LTIR and there are also lots of negative reasons for not operating in LTIR (which I don't want to get into), so taking on Poolman is not a positive for CAR.

 

For the role that these guys play, they are better than Beauvillier. He is not a good defensive player. And he is not good enough to be in CAR's top 6.

 

Martinook-Staal-Fast is CAR's shutdown line. They have proven chemistry, play against top competition and had SF% of almost 60%. Beau is not going to split those guys up. 

 

Noesen is on a $762k cap hit (less than half Beau at 50% retained) and plays a good defensive game. Perfect 4th line player for the price. 36 pts last season with avTOI 12 mins. Beau scored 40 pts with avTOI of 16 mins.

 

CAR aren't going to trade Pesce to put Beauvillier on their 4th line. There are better and cheaper options in free agency for that role.

 

No. It is poor value for CAR no matter how you try and explain it. They wouldn't even do the deal without adding a 2nd round pick.

 

After Carolina fills out to a 23 man roster and makes the upgrades they want and need (Tarasenko, etc) they will not be cap compliant. This has been reported by direct NHL sources as has the part of them shopping Pesce.

 

Chatfield has already played the high minutes you spoke of and shown he can handle that role. I also mentioned Coghlan and DeAngelo coming back tomorrow but you apparently don't read details.

 

Nice try but how LTIR works is the players cap hit counts but you are allowed to exceed the salary cap by the LTIR players cap amount. Thus Poolmans $2.5 Million would let them exceed the salary cap limit by that much.

 

Stefan Noesen was bouncing around on waivers, the NHL to the AHL, and went through six teams in less than ten years before having a good season last year in Carolina. Saying for the role that him,  Martinook, and Fast play, that they're better than Beauvillier is insanity. Beauvillier is younger, healthier, and has much faster foot speed than all of them and has been a far more proven clutch playoff player than any of them and was on pace for 50 points in back to back seasons (the ones that got shortened because of Covid). And if their bottom six forwards like the ones you mentioned were good enough than they would have stepped up and helped Carolina more and not gotten swept by Florida. Beauvillier is the exact type of player who can step up and play with elite players and also NYI fans have commented how he scores BIG goals in BIG moments. Carolina is not trading Pesce to put Beauvillier on their 4th line and you saying that proves that I do have to repeat myself. As I said Carolina is trading Pesce to gain cap space and not risk losing him for nothing. My proposal gives them a proven NHL forward in Beauvillier who makes their forward group better while also giving them cap space and also gives them two prospects and two draft picks. 

 

So no it is NOT a poor deal for Carolina and the 2nd round pick being added is actually more than fair. You and many other seriously overrate Pesces value and bash Beauvillier and his value. Exactly one of the things wrong with our fanbase. Bashing our own players and being completely out of touch with the reality of the hockey world.

Edited July 9, 2023 by NMHockey

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

After Carolina fills out to a 23 man roster and makes the upgrades they want and need (Tarasenko, etc) they will not be cap compliant. This has been reported by direct NHL sources as has the part of them shopping Pesce.

 

Chatfield has already played the high minutes you spoke of and shown he can handle that role. I also mentioned Coghlan and DeAngelo coming back but you apprently don't read details.

 

Nice try but how LTIR works is the cap hit counts but you are allowed to exceed the salary cap by the LTIR players cap amount. Thus Poolmans $2.5 Million would let them exceed the salary cap limit by that much.

 

Stefan Noesen was bouncing around on waivers, the NHL to the AHL, and went through six teams in less than ten years before having a good season last year in Carolina. Saying for the role that him,  Martinook, and Fast play, that they're better than Beauvillier is insanity. Beauvillier has been a far more proven clutch playoff player than any of them and was on pace for 50 points in back to back seasons (the ones that got shortened because of Covid). And if their bottom six forwards like the ones you mentioned were good enough than they would have stepped up and helped Carolina more and not gotten swept by Florida. Beauvillier is the exact type of player who can step up and play with elite players and also NYI fans have commented how he scores BIG goals in BIG moments. Carolina is not trading Pesce to put Beauvillier on their 4th line and you saying that proves that I do have to repeat myself. As I said Carolina is trading Pesce to gain cap space and not risk losing him for nothing. My proposal gives them a proven NHL forward in Beauvillier who makes their forward group better while also giving them cap space and also gives them two prospects and two draft picks. 

 

So no it is NOT a poor deal for Carolina and the 2nd round pick being added is actually more than fair. You and many other seriously overrate Pesces value and bash Beauvillier and his value. Exactly one of the things wrong with our fanbase. Bashing our own players and being completely out of touch with the reality of the hockey world.

[NMHockey]

39 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

 

Watch out fellas.  
He is an expert and is related to hockey players.  
He doesn’t need you to explain his incredibly obvious errors in player valuation, or his lack of understanding with the LTIR.  
 

If he tells you Rathbone, who at 24 can’t make the Canucks, has tons of value to the Canes…. You best believe it!

If he says Beauvillier would be a top 6 on a contender…. It’s true!

 

If you go to a hockey board with folks from all over NA, they are starting the offers with a 1st and a good prospect, but our loose change, pocket lint, an old button and a peppermint…… that’s the winner

Continuing to spew nonsense at someone and not even posting points about hockey now. Have you made one articulate or factual point or made any credibie point at all? How LTIR works is the LTIR players cap hit counts against the salary cap but you're allowed to exceed the salary cap limit by that players cap amount. This is why Tampa Bay acquired Brent Seabrooks LTIR cap and have made room using it the last couple seasons.

 

By the way Rathbone jusf turned 24 after this season and has played NHL games between the ages of 21-23 on top of missing time from concussions to two illegal cross checks in fhe AHL. Man I hope Jack sees your comments about him. Your stench of arrogance probably leaks through this forum and down to Rogers Arena.

 

[BigTramFan]

35 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

After Carolina fills out to a 23 man roster and makes the upgrades they want and need (Tarasenko, etc) they will not be cap compliant. This has been reported by direct NHL sources as has the part of them shopping Pesce.

It is a rumor. If CAR want to pay Tarasenko the rumored $5m he is asking for, they will need to make room for him. I think we are all aware of that. Do you know there are quite a few different ways to make cap space? I don't think they will do it by trading away one of their top 4 Dmen to add a middle 6 forward (Beauvillier) and Tarasenko. 

 

35 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

Chatfield has already played the high minutes you spoke of and shown he can handle that role. I also mentioned Coghlan and DeAngelo coming back tomorrow but you apparently don't read details.

Yes I read details and if you bothered to read my response, I already answered that comment.

 

35 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

Nice try but how LTIR works is the players cap hit counts but you are allowed to exceed the salary cap by the LTIR players cap amount. Thus Poolmans $2.5 Million would let them exceed the salary cap limit by that much.

Yes that's what I said. There's no extra cap space by adding a player in LTIR. So now you accept that the trade you proposed doesn't open up $3.6m of cap space for CAR.

 

35 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

You and many other seriously overrate Pesces value and bash Beauvillier and his value. Exactly one of the things wrong with our fanbase. Bashing our own players and being completely out of touch with the reality of the hockey world.

I don't think I'm overrating Pesce. He is a top 4 RD. I'd put him in at a similar value to Hampus Lindholm, who Boston acquired for a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks on the final year of his last contract. And then resigned him for $6.5m x 8 years.

 

I am not "bashing" Beauvillier just because he isn't as valuable in a trade as you think he is. He's a good player but isn't worth trading a top 4 RD for.

 

Thanks for the insults calling me insane and out of touch with the hockey world. I didn't resort to personal attacks, but you do you do. It's all good.

 

Did you put that trade idea onto Capfriendly yet? Keep an open mind to the responses and I think it might help you to understand what CAR is looking for.

Edited July 9, 2023 by BigTramFan

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, BigTramFan said:

It is a rumor. If CAR want to pay Tarasenko the rumored $5m he is asking for, they will need to make room for him. I think we are all aware of that. Do you know there are quite a few different ways to make cap space? I don't think they will do it by trading away one of their top 4 Dmen to add a middle 6 forward (Beauvillier) and Tarasenko. 

 

Yes I read details and if you bothered to read my response, I already answered that comment.

 

So now you accept that the trade you proposed doesn't open up $3.6m of cap space for CAR.

 

I don't think I'm overrating Pesce. He is a top 4 RD. I'd put him in at a similar value to Hampus Lindholm, who Boston acquired for a 1st round pick and two 2nd round picks on the final year of his last contract. And then resigned him for $6.5m x 8 years.

 

I am not "bashing" Beauvillier just because he isn't as valuable in a trade as you think he is. He's a good player but isn't worth trading a top 4 RD for.

 

Thanks for the insults calling me insane and out of touch with the hockey world. I didn't resort to personal attacks, but you do you do. It's all good.

 

Did you put that trade idea onto Capfriendly yet? Keep an open mind to the responses and I think it might help you to understand what CAR is looking for.

Why do we Canuck fans, on our board, care two hoots for what other clubs’ fans think? 
This trade offer is very fair. Actually we lose this trade. And our fans (on our board) are all who matter.

Now bow to Alf’s empties. 

[BigTramFan]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Why do we Canuck fans, on our board, care two hoots for what other clubs’ fans think? 
This trade offer is very fair. Actually we lose this trade. And our fans (on our board) are all who matter.

Now bow to Alf’s empties. 

Because it takes both sides to agree on a trade. We don't have to LIKE the other club's fans!

[Elias Pettersson]

In the case of LTIR, if Carolina was at the cap and traded a contract for Poolman’s contract then it is a benefit to them as they would now effectively be allowed to sign another contract for up to $2.5 million above the salary cap limit. Tampa Bay has done this multiple times. I understand that teams don’t want to operate in LTIR and there are issues with that, but technically speaking several teams have traded for LTIR contracts which benefited them.  

 

For example, if Carolina was at $83 million and traded Pesce ($4 million) to Vancouver for Beauvillier 50% retained ($2 million) plus Tucker Poolman ($2.5 million), then Carolina would be at $83.5 million. $83.5 million is their ACSL. However, they would now have Poolman’s contract on the books so it would now allow them to exceed their ACSL by $2.5 million so they could add a 3rd contract for another $2.5 million and get to $86 million and still be cap compliant. They wouldn’t have been able to add that 3rd contract for $2.5 million if they kept Pesce and never traded for Beauvillier and Poolman.

 

This has been explained many times in the forum but seems to always be confusing every time it’s mentioned. If you have Poolman’s contract on your books then your cap limit is now $86 million not $83.5 million.  Which is why the Canucks are currently cap complaint even though CapFriendly shows us as being over the cap by $3.2 million.  

Edited July 9, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Alflives]

41 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Because it takes both sides to agree on a trade. We don't have to LIKE the other club's fans!

 There are no “two sides” here. We are making stuff up. We are not GMs who are negotiating trades. We are Canuck fans proposing ideas to improve our club. So there is no reason to include other teams’ fans. This is make believe. Trying to diminish another Canuck’s fans idea to improve our club by saying other teams’ fans won’t agree (in our make believe world here) makes no sense. 
Now bow to Alf’s empties! 

[mll]

23 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

In the case of LTIR, if Carolina was at the cap and traded a contract for Poolman’s contract then it is a benefit to them as they would now effectively be allowed to sign another contract for up to $2.5 million above the salary cap limit. Tampa Bay has done this multiple times. I understand that teams don’t want to operate in LTIR and there are issues with that, but technically speaking several teams have traded for LTIR contracts which benefited them.  

 

For example, if Carolina was at $83 million and traded Pesce ($4 million) to Vancouver for Beauvillier 50% retained ($2 million) plus Tucker Poolman ($2.5 million), then Carolina would be at $83.5 million. $83.5 million is their ACSL. However, they would now have Poolman’s contract on the books so it would now allow them to exceed their ACSL by $2.5 million so they could add a 3rd contract for another $2.5 million and get to $86 million and still be cap compliant. They wouldn’t have been able to add that 3rd contract for $2.5 million if they kept Pesce and never traded for Beauvillier and Poolman.

 

This has been explained many times in the forum but seems to always be confusing every time it’s mentioned. If you have Poolman’s contract on your books then your cap limit is now $86 million not $83.5 million.  Which is why the Canucks are currently cap complaint even though CapFriendly shows us as being over the cap by $3.2 million.  

They can achieve the same thing without adding Poolman and being forced into LTIR.  

 

Taking your example but excluding Poolman.  Carolina is at 83M and trade Pesce for Beauvillier 50% retained.  It puts them at 81M which is 2.5M under the cap.   Adding Poolman does nothing other than force them into LTIR and prevents them from banking cap space and limit recall options.  

 

Beauvillier is not worth Pesce even at 50% retained and it makes the deal even worse for Carolina by adding Poolman and forcing them into LTIR.  

 

[BigTramFan]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 There are no “two sides” here. We are making stuff up. We are not GMs who are negotiating trades. We are Canuck fans proposing ideas to improve our club. So there is no reason to include other teams’ fans. This is make believe. Trying to diminish another Canuck’s fans idea to improve our club by saying other teams’ fans won’t agree (in our make believe world here) makes no sense. 
Now bow to Alf’s empties! 

Let's not propose any trades, since VAN already has all the best players!

 

How many empties are we talking?

Edited July 9, 2023 by BigTramFan