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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

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The whining (sign of weakness) always preceeds the caving. Back in early fall Daly was whining about how the NHLPA hadn't made any real counter offers. The next thing that happens is "make whole" is born. Admittedly it was pretty ugly at first but has since matured into something the players can stomach.

Now the players are whining. So I expect the next thing will be for the players to wave a white flag on the contracting and damage due to lockout issues.

Hooray for hockey in Dec.

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Drybone, let's pretend you aren't just talking out of your posterior for a minute and give you a chance to prove your frequent assertions. You keep saying Fehr is the problem and without him players would get more and owners would be demanding less. Where is a single piece of proof? They didn't have him last time and lost in almost every regard. What proof do you have that he is in any way damaging anything? And what proof do you have that Fehr is more damaging than Bettman, who is often openly antagonistic? What proof do you have to support your silly assertion that owners wouldn't be demanding so much if only it weren't for their overriding dislike of Fehr?

And your hockey player turned lawyer turned owner lover ("to walk in their shoes") turned union rep idea is laughable. Remind me again, how many owners were players first and understand their perspective? How many owners were GMs first and truly understand how to run a team? How many owners actually run the team like a regular business (which is their only area of expertise but completely irrelevant if they aren't using those skills)? And what prior hockey experience did Bettman have? If you think players should have a homegrown union rep, shouldn't the NHL itself be led by someone with a lifelong relationship with the sport?

I look forward to seeing if you have any actual facts to back up the crap you keep saying instead of just relying on more of your own opinions as your only "proof."

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Its about time. In fact, they should FIRE Fehr and that would go a LONG way to getting the owners to ease up and give back some concessions.

There was NO WAY the Owners were going to let some outsider walk in and try to BULLY them at their own game.

The sooner the NHLPA fires Fehr the sooner the owners can back down.

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Remind me again, how many owners were players first and understand their perspective?

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Its about time. In fact, they should FIRE Fehr and that would go a LONG way to getting the owners to ease up and give back some concessions.

There was NO WAY the Owners were going to let some outsider walk in and try to BULLY them at their own game.

The sooner the NHLPA fires Fehr the sooner the owners can back down.

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I guess you guys might want to actually ADMIT the league has all the power and the NHLPA has none whatsoever.

The owners are royally pissed off at Fehr and the players have made a huge mistake by hiring him. The owners do not have to do anything and its now showing.

Perhaps next time the NHLPA will grow their own attorney. They will get a guy who is a hockey player, even if it was only at the AHL or even east coast league level. Get a guy who has been a hockey guy his whole life then became a professional attorney Then have that guy study and practice labor law and sports law for decades.

Then , after he is ready, then have that guy walk a mile in the owners shoes, earn their respect, and THEN represent the union in negotiations.

The NHLPA will have far smoother sailing having a home grown legal talent WITHIN the NHL ranks rather than bring some outsider as their hired gun.

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Global news interviewed larionov who's in town and he let slip that he spoke with both union and Colin Campbell and felt the 2 sides would be wrapping up a CBA soon... Gretzky also chimed in again and felt by next month well have a CBA signed.... Are we close or not close???

Edit: Phil Esposito also thinks hockey returns in December... So does hockeyyinsiderr (ugh)

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If they don't start playing by January the league is going to lose a lot of fans. ..

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Global news interviewed larionov who's in town and he let slip that he spoke with both union and Colin Campbell and felt the 2 sides would be wrapping up a CBA soon... Gretzky also chimed in again and felt by next month well have a CBA signed.... Are we close or not close???

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Drybone, let's pretend you aren't just talking out of your posterior for a minute and give you a chance to prove your frequent assertions. You keep saying Fehr is the problem and without him players would get more and owners would be demanding less. Where is a single piece of proof? They didn't have him last time and lost in almost every regard. What proof do you have that he is in any way damaging anything? And what proof do you have that Fehr is more damaging than Bettman, who is often openly antagonistic? What proof do you have to support your silly assertion that owners wouldn't be demanding so much if only it weren't for their overriding dislike of Fehr?

And your hockey player turned lawyer turned owner lover ("to walk in their shoes") turned union rep idea is laughable. Remind me again, how many owners were players first and understand their perspective? How many owners were GMs first and truly understand how to run a team? How many owners actually run the team like a regular business (which is their only area of expertise but completely irrelevant if they aren't using those skills)? And what prior hockey experience did Bettman have? If you think players should have a homegrown union rep, shouldn't the NHL itself be led by someone with a lifelong relationship with the sport?

I look forward to seeing if you have any actual facts to back up the crap you keep saying instead of just relying on more of your own opinions as your only "proof."

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Global news interviewed larionov who's in town and he let slip that he spoke with both union and Colin Campbell and felt the 2 sides would be wrapping up a CBA soon... Gretzky also chimed in again and felt by next month well have a CBA signed.... Are we close or not close???

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I think I'm in denial... every time I hear that both sides are talking, I get excited. I think that they're grown men and naturally they would be able to resolve this like adults.... but then nothing happens.

I want hockey for christmas.

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League stooge? Hyperbole? You are reduced to personal insults now? In other words the NHLPA argument has failed.

It it is utterly irrelevant what you think . Just as it doesnt matter what I think or what my personal feelings are. Just so you know, I would prefer they get on with a contract so we can get on with the season.

It is irrelevant to you or what the terms are. Neither of us will ever have anything to do with how they split it up . Just as we will never hoist the Stanley Cup nor ever play in the NHL or have anything to do with the Canucks other than just be fans.

However, I have come to discuss the facts from a dispassionate point of view of the real world. And those facts are exactly as I have laid them out. I am not sugar coating this for anyone.

League has all power, NHLPA has none.

Again, it is irrelevant what you WANT TO BELIEVE. Its what the actual reality is. Anyone who believes the NHLPA has any power at this point must be deluded i. Its so obvious they dont.

I have been telling you all along . I am sorry you dont want to believe it. However, I'm not going to sink to throwing personal insults at you. If you are still holding a vigil for the NHLPA to somehow 'win' , I feel sorry for you.

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Your post rambles and unfornutately does not add anything of value.You spend too much time insisting that Ido something to help your understanding. I would advise you read it again and I am sure it will come to yourself.

I feel sorry for those who still believe the NHLPA are somehow going to win. I pity you.

They have no power. Anyone who thinks they do is deluded. . Hiring Fehr has hurt the Union.

We shall see how far he will go to make a deal. I can assure you the owners dont have to make any deal.

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I think Fehr's done a good job. All he has done is organised the players into an effective communication hub. I think he really does speak on behalf of the players and not for them. Bettman on the other hand, I'm not so sure. Let's change that governing board vote to a 50%+1 pass and see what happens. It's never going to happen, but it would probably change the attitude of the NHL offers.

I really hope the make whole is "made whole" by the owner that signed the contract to begin with. I don't want the league to collectively share in that payment. Craig Leipold deserves to pay every last dime.

What I am really wishing is that some of the NHL veteran leadership would speak out to the union. I don't want to hear any more Crosby whining towards the NHL owners. (I wonder how Mario feels about this). It was nice to hear Jagr speak out, but how about Iginla or Doan, considering they are also part owners of a money losing Blazers WHL team? They need to speak to their own union, not the NHL, and tell the younger players to take a few punches and move on.

Edit, apparently they did speak out. The Iginla article is a good read, honest, and to the point.

“It’s not a matter of us trying to get anything back from the owners. We’re trying to find a way to get a deal that, in five years, Gary won’t be coming back and saying, ‘The game is better than ever, but there’s still a few teams (struggling) and instead of 50%, we want you to take 40%,’ ” Iginla said.
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Yuk yuk yuk~! Some of these people who try to push there ideal package on the CBA are about as sharp as a butter knife...

I can see that you may have an opinion on the CBA and its more weighted to the NHLPA but when realism kicks in you get all butt hurt. Thats why I say some people are so clingy to the players jock straps that they feel the need to cut anyone who says the NHLPA are not going to get what they are asking for...."Will to!" UUH HUUH! lol

Who locked who out here? {NHL} Who hired the gun to rep them in this battle? {Players}Who asked the NHLPA Rep Fehr to stick to these meetings and get er done? {Players} because maybe just MAYBE they are starting to realize that "Well damn Im not in demand as I think I am"

You see the players will lose, and Fehr will have done nothing but poke the beast that is the NHL~!

I watched the OHL/Russia games and was entertained some of them have the stuff...so I know that the NHL will always have talent...and the ones waiting for this CBA will only get old.

Go OWNERS~!

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So that would be a big fat "no" to having a single shred of proof to back up your many assertions then.

How sad that you find direct questions to be "rambling." Or is that simply a convenient excuse to avoid answering a single one of them?

And yes, I expected you "help me understand" your point. It's called participating in a discussion. This is a discussion forum, after all. It's simply too bad you were incapable of either defending your position with more than your own feelings or responding to direct questions with anything more than childishly stomping your foot and saying, "Just take my word because I said so!"

But rest assured, you still more than managed to tell me everything I need to know about your actual knowledge of the situation and the weight your opinion should be afforded.

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