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AV should be on thin ice...

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#31 WHL rocks

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

This is what happens when you have a veteran, back to back Presidents Trophy team. The players are given more responsibly.

AV not going anywhere for a couple of years unless there is a sudden meltdown and the team misses playoffs or goes on extended slide (10 games)

Edited by WHL rocks, 19 January 2013 - 04:05 PM.

#32 newgm


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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:44 PM

There's any number of innovative hockey minds (like Roger Nielson) that were good coaches and never won a Stanley Cup.

AV is a capable bread and butter systems coach that has been given a great deal of talent, but his version of innovative was talking Gillis into agreeing with the stupid idea of making Luongo Captain which was a lose lose position for him and the team.

Detroit has one Stanley Cup to show for winning 5 Presidents trophies, twice back to backs failed to deliver a Cup. In 27 years only Edmonton, Calgary and Dallas have won Stanley Cups after winning their second Presidents Trophy back to back and no team has won the Presidents trophy three years in a row.

The problem with AV is his inability to prepare his teams, and just as importantly, he seems emotionably incapable of motivating his players and inspiring them to rise to the challenge at that crucial moment in a game when really talented coaches can make a difference.

Neither a Scotty Bowman or Mike Babcock won the Cup every year, but even when they lost, it was a battle to the last whistle, as opposed to the chronic embarrasing no shows that have characterized AV coached teams.

I can only pray that the spirit of Toe Blake will somehow possess AV and make me eat my words.

#33 playboi19


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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

Dan Hamhuis and the Sedins should be on thin ice.

#34 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:08 PM

If the Canucks take another quick exit out of the playoffs, he will be.
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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

One of the few benefits of the lockout....

...I didn't have to read trite, misinformed "Fire AV" threads. Oh well, take the good with the stupid, I suppose....
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#36 DarthNinja


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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

That "same-old same-old" coach got us to game seven of the Stanley Cup Finals and helped make this team into a contender. Have no idea why people think teams can just change a coach and nothing will go wrong. AV is a great coach and he tends to be the whipping boy when no one else is performing poorly, the off-season is happening, etc. You're just complaining to complain. You didn't bring up a single good point that was backed up by an example. All in all, this is a pretty poorly constructed argument and I consider that if you truly want to express your opinions about the man like this, take some more time and effort into your posts.

Actually, he allowed Boston to take the Canucks to game 7 of the finals after the team blew a 2-0 series lead and he also allowed his goaltender to influence his coaching decisions at what may have been the most pivotal point in the finals. I also saw the team playing the same wide-open style of hockey when we had critical injuries that led to countless odd-man rushes against the Canucks.


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#37 Barry_Wilkins


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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

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Oh haha ha ha!

But as a simple check of the stats will show, under AV the past two years Vancouver's been #1 and tied with Chicago for #1 in the West in goals for.

But AV haters' "reasoning" usually involves nothing more than "gum chewer" or "DO something!".

Brilliant, the entertainment here.

#38 newgm


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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:03 AM

In the post game Hockey night in Canada segment tonight Hrudey asks AV what he said to the players after the game. His reply was "nothing".

You'd think that with the Oilers in here tomorrow night, the Coach might have something to say to his team after an effort like tonight.

It's not surprising why this team is consistently unprepared.

#39 The Analyst

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

I had written a blog that seemed fitted to this topic:

There is no question that the bench boss of the current back to back president's trophy winners has had a history of success. But as many economists will tell you, past performance is not an indicator of future returns. AV's style has evolved over his tenure with the club, almost allowing his players to room the dressing room themselves. He holds the veterans accountable and the team holds themselves accountable. And for the past two seasons, this has worked; but the window to win hockey's Holy Grail is closing and unless AV sings a different tune, his next cab ride won't be to Roger's Arena, it could be to the unemployment line.

Let's take a look at the facts. AV prides himself on a balanced team. 2 Scoring lines, a checking line and 4th line of grinders. He has a preference for experience over youth. Which makes sense if you are trying to win the cup here and now. But GM Mike Gillis isn't building a team that is one and done. He's using the 'Detroit' model of building through prospects, earning spots and being competitive every year. Take players Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Filppula. Working their way up through the ranks in Detroit. Given 3rd line duty at first, learn to be defensively responsible and gradually increase their ice time.

The same can be said with currently Vancouver favourites Ryan Kesler and Alexandre Burrows. Originally 3rd and 4th line checkers, these players were eventually given more and more ice time, but the got their footing with limited minutes, behind high-end talent (Bertuzzi and Naslund, Sedins) so the can face other 3rd and 4th liners and raise their games slowly.

Fast forward to today, where we see a young Zack Kassian thrust into the (Only out of necessity) 2nd line with Mason Raymond and Andrew Ebbett. Great experience for Kassian but hardly a recipe for success, and if he struggles he'll be relegated to 4th line duty in a heartbeat. Mason Raymond is the only proven NHLer on this line and although fleet footed, has yet to gain enough strength and balance to remain a top 6 forward for a full NHL season. Andrew Ebbett has shown potential in the past with good NHL numbers alongside Getzlaf and Perry. But that's hardly an indication of overall skill, just ask Anson Carter. 2009 1st Round pick, Jordan Schroeder had an excellent training camp but AV would rather continue his development with top 6 minutes in the AHL.

I don't claim to know more about coaching or hockey than AV but I can see some fundamental flaws in the current system.

1. AV would rather ice NHL 3rd and 4th liners who have reached their ceiling versus create a 4th line of young prospects to help acclimate them to the game. On a team that is 9 deep on defence and arguably the best goaltending tandem in the league, he would rather have defence first 4th liners with zero scoring potential (Dale Weise/Manny Malhotra/Aaron Volpatti)

2. Sedin's have the lowest ice-time in the league among 1st liners. (The year Daniel Sedin won the Art Ross, he was 75th in ice-time, with less than 17 min/night) Henrik and Daniel have asked for additional ice time, which included penalty killing but AV prefers to keep the Sedins to limited minutes.

3. The reduction in the NHL Salary cap will mean that team will be required to lean heavier on Entry Level Deals for secondary scoring. Vancouver has the weakest prospect pool in the North West Division and will continue to have that if we keep developing them the way they do.

The 2012-2013 is a wild card season, with Ryan Kesler and David Booth out with injury, the team is likely to continue to stumble throughout the first 12 games or so. But I don't see how Andrew Ebbett, Dale Weise and Aaron Volpatti give you a better chance to win over, Jordan Schroeder, Nicklaus Jensen and Zack Kassian.

Keep in mind, that it is these players that will eventually need to carry the torch. To have them in the line-up, overshadowed by the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler and Booth allows them to learn the NHL game without added pressure of being relied on for the majority of team scoring.

# of years in the NHL before scoring more than 75 points.
Datsyuk = 4
Zetterberg = 3
Bertuzzi = 7
Kesler = 7

Let these kids grow on the 4th line AV. The new NHL needs 4 scoring lines, with everyone being defensively responsible.

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