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[Discussion] What pieces do we actually need out of a Luongo trade?


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#1 Zoolander

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

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It's still very early on in the season but so far, there have been many pleasant surprises for the Canucks.

Raymond: For someone who only about 2 weeks ago would have been traded, and was considered useless by about 90-95% of all fans on this board. He has had a great start to the season, and has succeeded in drawing penalties, playing well defensively and of course, finding his scoring touch that he had back in 2009/10. Part of the reason for this success is because he had started to go hard to the net again, and go to the dirty areas which has really made him a more complete player.
His play thus far is worthy of keeping him around, he has great speed and his 2-way ability has made him a great top 6/9 forward this season

Kassian: Through the first 4 games of this season, he has un-arguably been our best player. He has really brought a new dimension to our top 6. He hits, fights, plays defence, plays the cycle-game with the Sedins, and of course scores.
He has truly showed his potential of being a Top-6 Power-forward who can stand up for teammates

Ballard/Tanev: They have been a great shutdown pair for us thus far, Ballard has shown he can play a slowed down, non-risky type of hockey and his emotion/grit and Tanev's calmness with the puck make for a very reliable 3rd pairing.

Schroeder: After only being called up for 2 games, this guy has had so many scoring chances, and is making some amazing passes for his linemates, evident in his pass to Raymond on Raymond's 2nd goal tonight against the Ducks. His defensive play has also been up to par, and his speed and playmaking ability has really elevated our Top ( (compared to the slower, yet grittier Ebbett)

In summary, we've found:
A potential 3rd line Centre- Jordan Schroeder
A productive power forward: Zack Kassian
A stable 3rd D-pairing/defensive depth- Ballard,Tanev,etc
Second line scoring- Mason Raymond


So my question is,
What pieces should we try to acquire in a trade for Luongo? We no longer are in desperate need of a 3rd line centre (if Schroeder keeps producing), a powerforward to protect the Sedins/score (If Kassian continues his STELLAR play) or just secondary scoring in general if Raymond continues his comeback, and rotates in and out of the top 6 once Kes and Booth are back.

I think if these 5 players continue their play (not to mention Schneider's play) Gillis will no longer be stressed to trade Luongo and he can pick and choose what pieces he wants now. With the positions that were in question at the beginning of the season now coming together,

I'm hoping Gillis trades for primarily NHL ready, Kassian like prospects who can bolster our propect pool and for a draft pick in this year's draft. A roster player should be added, but I think prospects should be what Gillis focuses on now that our roster is solifying it's holes by its self

I won't discuss what team I think Luongo will go to (if traded), but what I mean by Kassian-like NHL prospects would be players like Scott Laughton, Tyler Biggs, Brett Connolly, etc



So,
What do you guys think we should look at getting for Luongo, now that the teams holes are being filled within our own system?

Edited by Zoolander, 26 January 2013 - 12:12 AM.

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#2 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:21 AM

I scanned your post backwards, but you're obviously looking forwards. Enod ylecin
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#3 Phil_314

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:23 AM

Yeah good question.

Until I wrote this I didn't realize how deep they actually are:

After how they've been playing of late (can you say DEPTH?)

Dan - Hank - Kassian (KEEP THIS LINE)
Burrows - Kesler - Hansen (they've worked before, 3 speedy two-way demons who can score)
Raymond - Schroeder - Booth (Ray - Shray has worked well; Booth also has speed, plus he's physical and Shray can set him up)
Higgins - Lapierre - Weise (surprised Higgins regressed of late; this line has offensive potential though)
Malhotra, Volpatti (he's played well, just that with the regulars back someone has to go and unfortunately it's him)

Edler - Garrison
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Ballard - Tanev
Vandermeer, Barker, Alberts

Schneider


I honestly don't know, the only thing I could think of would be for a top-level D prospect, either an elite hulking shutdown guy or a PP QB (not sure about K-Con, McNally or Corrado's upside).

Center: Gaunce
Left wing: Jensen
Right wing: Kassian
Net: Lack
Defense: Corrado, K-Con, McNally (these are all smaller guys though, would be good to get a Gudbranson type just to stabilize things; Seth Jo...? psyche)

Edited by g@m3b0i, 26 January 2013 - 12:32 AM.

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#4 Joel Heyman

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:23 AM

Prospects, picks, maybe some depth. A first in the upcoming draft would be a necessity for me, unless a blue-chip prospect's involved, because this draft is just too damn good.
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#5 Tystick

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:25 AM

Most likely a prospect that plays center and/or a top 6 player
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#6 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

Great post +1.

I want futures, we have all the depth we need. (Current consensus lineup with with Kes and Booth healthy has either Higgins or Hansen on the 4th with Lappy and Manny/Weise/Volpatti, that's sick depth)

Then on the backend Ballard and Tanev are perfectly capable of playing 20+ minutes in my mind, and if Hammer and Juice get on there game that leaves us with 3 pairs capable of 20+.

We have everything we need on our roster, this is our time to address futures, we need to get prospects and picks. I wouldn't mind someone who is NHL capable now, and is still young with potential (Kadri, Johansson, exc) but if we could get a good future prospect or 2 that will take longer to develop that is fine with me too.

No question in my mind (and I have said this for awhile) that we need to look to get future assets in this deal to restock the cupboard with more quality.
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#7 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:28 AM

DP.

Edit: For the teams interested I would try to target a good prospect, a 1st and either a 2nd or 3rd aswell (depending on the quality of the prospect)

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 26 January 2013 - 12:30 AM.

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#8 Specter's Vengeance

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:48 AM

I love all you posted. I would have to agree with everyone by saying draft picks. We need to address that area for sure. As far as the now? Id say another forward to help out and maybe a cheap backup goaltender. Lack will get his. We've been blessed with great tender coaching as well as goalies! But for now a secondary tender and forward is what we need this instant.
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#9 Pears

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:50 AM

Another centerman wouldn't hurt, as well as another natural RW. I agree with people saying another first is essential for this draft because of how deep it is.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#10 qwijibo

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:52 AM

the problem with the prospects,picks equation is that there are very few teams that are able to absorb Luongo's cap hit without sending back significant salary in return. Those that do have the space are generally operating under an internal cap and wouldn't take on Luongo's salary. either that or they are in markets that Luongo would never accept a trade to (ie Columbus)

Luongo MAY fetch a decent prospect and pick, but not without some salary in return. Sure Vancouver could choose to eat some of his salary in a trade, but are they really better off in that case? Be interesting to see if this ever actually gets resolved
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#11 Tom Sestito

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:22 AM

I'm so god damn happy about this.

Kassian is playing great, our depth is stepping up, our bottom pair of defence has been our best pair, and schneider's had two straight solid games.

This is going to help GMMG so much. It's proving that he doesn't NEED anything. I'm super happy about this.

If this was like two weeks ago, when everyone thought we'd flunk hard, and we needed a bottom pair defenceman, a top 6 power forward, and a 3rd line centre, then our return wouldn't have been as strong.

GMMG I've loved everything you've done for this team, and right now it's your chance to make a real great deal while teams like Philly, and Washington are struggling.

:towel: in GMMG we trust.
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#12 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:37 AM

Another point: Sneaky Buttman may spring expansion on us, to break up our potential monopoly(where we can only protect 14 or so of our brilliant cast). In this scenario, it's wise to recycle some of our fine, yet perhaps surplus talent, into future picks(particularly with franchises that may dip in coming yrs...)
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#13 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:40 AM

You can count another plus from me good Sirsington.

I've said it for months, our prospects are legit! Just look at Kassian evolving his physical game with some scoring, Schroeder developing a reliable two way game on top of the dynamic forward we knew he could be, Corrado getting the team Canada invite, Cannata with a 1.70 GAA in the AHL as a rookie, Gaunce's recent streak in the month of January, and Jensen destroying the SEL as a 19 y/o! Our current roster is of course what you were referring to, so back to topic.

We're really deep this year. This current roster has shown tremendous upside despite the loss of 2 of our top 6. As another poster pointed out, AV is going to have a plethora of options when Kesler/Booth get back. For now though, this roster seems dominant and I'd really avoid trying to fix something that isn't broken.

So, like most of the posters on here, I would like to see a return consisting of a 1st and a top prospect. The prospect would ideally be a big centre who can play wing, or a RH D-man - as our left side is stacked. Even now I can't see any roster addition knocking off the guys we have now, combined with competing for the guys that will be returning to the lineup.

For right now, I'd rather keep Luongo for the condensed season. I don't like the idea of moving him at the trade deadline, as we saw last year, the shakeup to our game structure with the shipping out of Hodgson and the movement towards a checking 3rd line with Pahlsson backfired tremendously. So if Luongo gets dealt, it should either be soon and for picks/prospects or be done at the end of the season.
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#14 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:00 AM

MG will be targeting young player on ELC or less than 2 mill in salary.......I think that will be the goal........
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#15 SunnyHours

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:39 AM

Great thread - plus 1!

I'd like to see prospects and picks but someone above made a good point about salary most likely having to come back, which is a valid point. Hopefully Aquilini (sp?) is cool with burying some salary in the minors if need be.


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#16 qwijibo

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:49 AM

Great thread - plus 1!

I'd like to see prospects and picks but someone above made a good point about salary most likely having to come back, which is a valid point. Hopefully Aquilini (sp?) is cool with burying some salary in the minors if need be.


Burying guys in the minors doesn't hide their cap anymore. Under the new cba a team only saves $900 thousand of cap space when they send a guy with a one way contract down. That's why Montreal and the rangers had to use 1 of their buyouts to get rid of Gomez and Redden. (and in those cases they're still getting nailed with the cap hits for this season) Vancouver will have 2 buyouts they can use in the offseason but the days of hiding salary in the minors are gone.
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#17 JensenFan2011

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:34 AM

I think the best thing to do would be Bjugstad and a second for Luongo.... Bjugstad could play in the playoffs and not burn off a year (same with jensen) so in the play offs we could have


Sedin Sedin Kassian
Booth Kesler Burrows
Raymond Bjugstad Jensen
Higgins Lappy Hansen

Hamuis Bieksa
Edler Garisson
Ballard Tanev

Schnieder
Lack


That offensive depth... now thats an offense where you really can run all 4 lines... which you need in the play offs
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#18 PRIMO88

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

god id love to have Bjugstad on this team. What do you think wed have to throw in for florida to upgrade that 2nd to a 1st though?
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#19 JensenFan2011

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:30 AM

god id love to have Bjugstad on this team. What do you think wed have to throw in for florida to upgrade that 2nd to a 1st though?


more than likely schroeder but maybe if we do Luongo+ Gaunce i know we just drafted him but bjugstad would be a better for us
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#20 bossram

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

It's still very early on in the season but so far, there have been many pleasant surprises for the Canucks.

Raymond: For someone who only about 2 weeks ago would have been traded, and was considered useless by about 90-95% of all fans on this board. He has had a great start to the season, and has succeeded in drawing penalties, playing well defensively and of course, finding his scoring touch that he had back in 2009/10. Part of the reason for this success is because he had started to go hard to the net again, and go to the dirty areas which has really made him a more complete player.
His play thus far is worthy of keeping him around, he has great speed and his 2-way ability has made him a great top 6/9 forward this season

Kassian: Through the first 4 games of this season, he has un-arguably been our best player. He has really brought a new dimension to our top 6. He hits, fights, plays defence, plays the cycle-game with the Sedins, and of course scores.
He has truly showed his potential of being a Top-6 Power-forward who can stand up for teammates

Ballard/Tanev: They have been a great shutdown pair for us thus far, Ballard has shown he can play a slowed down, non-risky type of hockey and his emotion/grit and Tanev's calmness with the puck make for a very reliable 3rd pairing.

Schroeder: After only being called up for 2 games, this guy has had so many scoring chances, and is making some amazing passes for his linemates, evident in his pass to Raymond on Raymond's 2nd goal tonight against the Ducks. His defensive play has also been up to par, and his speed and playmaking ability has really elevated our Top ( (compared to the slower, yet grittier Ebbett)

In summary, we've found:
A potential 3rd line Centre- Jordan Schroeder
A productive power forward: Zack Kassian
A stable 3rd D-pairing/defensive depth- Ballard,Tanev,etc
Second line scoring- Mason Raymond


So my question is,
What pieces should we try to acquire in a trade for Luongo? We no longer are in desperate need of a 3rd line centre (if Schroeder keeps producing), a powerforward to protect the Sedins/score (If Kassian continues his STELLAR play) or just secondary scoring in general if Raymond continues his comeback, and rotates in and out of the top 6 once Kes and Booth are back.

I think if these 5 players continue their play (not to mention Schneider's play) Gillis will no longer be stressed to trade Luongo and he can pick and choose what pieces he wants now. With the positions that were in question at the beginning of the season now coming together,

I'm hoping Gillis trades for primarily NHL ready, Kassian like prospects who can bolster our propect pool and for a draft pick in this year's draft. A roster player should be added, but I think prospects should be what Gillis focuses on now that our roster is solifying it's holes by its self

I won't discuss what team I think Luongo will go to (if traded), but what I mean by Kassian-like NHL prospects would be players like Scott Laughton, Tyler Biggs, Brett Connolly, etc



So,
What do you guys think we should look at getting for Luongo, now that the teams holes are being filled within our own system?

When Kesler and Booth come back, the Canucks will have something like 10 or 11 top-nine forwards, which is great depth for the playoffs. I see the lines shaking something like this:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Higgins - Kesler - Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Booth
Malhotra - Lapierre - Hansen
Volpatti/Ebbet/Weise

Ebbet will have to be sent down for space. And then a decision on Volpatti or Weise as the extra forward will have to be made. Schroeder could be sent down as well. But I like this style of a lineup because it is a truly 4 line team and a big luxury to have Lapierre/Hansen on the 4th line. It's a good logjam to have, especially if there are injuries. That said, Gillis could look to find a veteran 3rd line center to improve on Schroeder heading into the playoffs.

On defense:

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Edler
Ballard - Tanev
Barker/Alberts/Vandermeer

Fairly solid and deep, but I think Gillis should stil be looking for a veteran #4/5 defenseman (preferably right-sided) heading into the playoffs.

So I think we could still be trying to find another center and a defenseman for a playoff run. Either/or of which could possibly be addressed in a Luongo trade.

However, I wouldn't be opposed to dealing Luongo for an NHL-ready impact prospect. Just a decision whether to load up for this year or continue building our prospect pool.

Edited by bossram, 26 January 2013 - 12:56 PM.

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#21 elvis15

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

Top end forward talent (prospects or young players) and picks. If we get a roster player we can use right now to improve us and is more viable in our top 6 than what we already have, that works too. Maybe a big, strong, shutdown guy for the 3rd pairing on the left side that's better than our current options, possibly a backup that improves our position as well. All obviously not very expensive.
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#22 Patrick Jane

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:45 PM

Forsberg from Washington would be great
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#23 theminister

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

A 3rd line centre, a prospect with 1st line potential and a back-up goalie. We could also really use another high pick for the 2013 draft and a physical presence for the 3rd pairing D.

Edited by theminister, 26 January 2013 - 04:35 PM.

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#24 theminister

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:35 PM

.

Edited by theminister, 26 January 2013 - 04:35 PM.

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#25 canucksnihilist

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

It means that we can get some players who are young and can play - or will play in a year.

this is how we extend the window. If we get 2 new young players that stick (or even 1) this year, and next year can add another, etc.

we also need a player that is not a star, but can fill a role that we need.
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#26 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

I am pleased with the promise shown thus far by Schroeder, Raymond and particularly Kassian. However, looking at the roster, I still think that secondary scoring is the team's most pressing need. Lack of scoring has been the team's downfall in each of the last two post-seasons.

Either a top-6 winger or top-9 centre would help the team a lot. I don't think Schroeder should be relied on to consistently produce throughout the season. This is of particular concern given Kesler's status. However, centres can be very hard to find. If the best forward available happens to be a scoring winger, that would help too. You can't have too many scorers when the playoffs role around, and match-ups become more important.

Looking more broadly at the organization, depth is a weakness, particularly when it comes to top-end prospects. We're not well-set up to have a stream of contributors playing on entry-level deals in the years to come. Look what's happened in Detroit: their pool of prospects has dried up. They don't have emerging stars to take over for their aging core. It looks like they're going to have to rebuild. Organizational depth is the lifeblood of a perennial contender. We need more of it, or we also may be looking at a rebuild within a few years.

Therefore, I believe Gillis should target both a roster player and futures assets in a Luongo deal. Luongo is a star. It's not unreasonable to ask for a couple good pieces in return for him.
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#27 goblix

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

I think the second / third line would look:
Booth - Kesler - Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen

For Luongo I'd like some prospects back into our pool,
Wash, Brower and Forsberg or NYI Neideretter + pick or FLDA Bjugstad
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#28 Zoolander

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:01 PM

For Luongo I'd like some prospects back into our pool,
Wash, Brower and Forsberg or NYI Neideretter + pick or FLDA Bjugstad


Brouwer and Hansen on the 3rd/4th lines would be sick!!

But Forsberg is a LW, and we already have a log jam of LW players
Burrows
Booth
D.Sedin
Raymond
Higgins
Volpatti

Tom Wilson, or Kuznetsov would be better options. Hopefully Kuznetsov, he has more skill but he has contractual obligations to the KHL so the "Russian Factor" could lower his trade value

To VAN
Kuznetsov, Brouwer, ***conditional 2014 1st rd pick if Kuznetsov doesn't come to N.America for training camp next season

To WSH
Luongo,Raymond, 4th rd pick

Raymond,4th rd pick---->Brouwer
Luongo--->Kuznetsov, ***conditional 1st 2014
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#29 Zoolander

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:03 PM

Line-up this season:

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows
Higgins-Schroeder-Brouwer
Volpatti-Lapierre-Hansen

Next Season

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Kuznetsov
Higgins-Burrows-Brouwer/Schroeder
Volpatti-Lapierre-Hansen
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My 2014 Draft wishlist: 1st rd: Draisaitl, Virtanen, Scherbak. 2nd rd: Brendan Lemieux, Thatcher Demko (Goalie)
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Future Canucks top 6:
Shinkaruk-Draisaitl-Scherbak
Virtanen-Horvat-Jensen

#30 kanucks1

kanucks1

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:14 PM

Kadri and a 1st 2013? We would have to give them maybe connauton to even it out?
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