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Jason Garrison so far?


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#271 elvis15

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:03 PM

We're essentially using the cap we got from Salo/Ehrhoff for this guy. He doesn't replace one, let alone both. I wish MG would have just realized how important Ehrhoff was to this team and singed him instead of being a dumb frack and letting him walk.

The only proof you need for Ehrhoff's importance to the team's offence is this; the only two seasons he played for the Canucks, a Sedin lead the league in points. Without him, both Sedins played a PPG before and after his departure.

MG chose Booth over Ehrhoff and boy didn't that work out? Biggest mistake of his career right now. MG 's knowledge about the defense position is very weak with the way he has handled it. Got a great asset who performed great and failed to lock him up and signed a string of mediocre guys (Ballard, Garrsion).

MG should give control of the defense core to someone else, he can't do it.

And how effective was Ehrhoff on defence for us in the playoffs in 2011?

Gillis offered Ehrhoff the same deal as Bieksa, but Ehrhoff refused it. Ehrhoff shouldn't be given anything significantly more than Bieksa as Bieksa stepped up in the playoffs and was pretty good still in the regular season, so Gillis had to keep in mind what would give this team the best chance to win. It was as much Ehrhoff's choice to not take the deal Gillis offered as it was for Gillis to move him rather than lose him for nothing.
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#272 Edlerberry

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:14 PM

Maybe we're pretending he's bad on the PP so he can be unleashed for the playoffs and nobody will have prepared for him!
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#273 Pouria

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:18 PM

Ehrhoff - 40 million over 10 years.
Salo - 7.5 million, 2 years, 35+ contract.

7.75 million cap hit.


Garrison 4.6 + Ballard 4.2 = 8.8 million cap hit. Is that better?

Christian Ehrhoff +6 10 points
Sami Salo +10 7 points


Garrison +7 2 points
Ballard +4 1 point


I know which pair I would be picking.

Hint: Its the one that helped us get to the Stanley cup finals.
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#274 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:19 PM

And how effective was Ehrhoff on defence for us in the playoffs in 2011?

Gillis offered Ehrhoff the same deal as Bieksa, but Ehrhoff refused it. Ehrhoff shouldn't be given anything significantly more than Bieksa as Bieksa stepped up in the playoffs and was pretty good still in the regular season, so Gillis had to keep in mind what would give this team the best chance to win. It was as much Ehrhoff's choice to not take the deal Gillis offered as it was for Gillis to move him rather than lose him for nothing.

Led all Canuck d-men in points in the playoffs with an injured shoulder for half of the playoffs. His +/- wasn't great although the Sedins' wasn't either.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 17 February 2013 - 11:21 PM.

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#275 Edlerberry

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:21 PM

Also if Ehrhoff signed for $5m+/year, Edler would have gotten $6m.
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#276 Pouria

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:22 PM

And how effective was Ehrhoff on defence for us in the playoffs in 2011?

Gillis offered Ehrhoff the same deal as Bieksa, but Ehrhoff refused it. Ehrhoff shouldn't be given anything significantly more than Bieksa as Bieksa stepped up in the playoffs and was pretty good still in the regular season, so Gillis had to keep in mind what would give this team the best chance to win. It was as much Ehrhoff's choice to not take the deal Gillis offered as it was for Gillis to move him rather than lose him for nothing.


Oh I don't know...President trophy champ, Western Conference Champ, Stanley cup finalist with Kesler getting Selke and Henrik getting Hart and Art Ross and the team winning the Jennings for the lowest GAA in the league. Yep, he really didn't have much impact at all. Not to mention the #1 PP in the league.
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#277 Edlerberry

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:23 PM

Garrison 4.6 + Ballard 4.2 = 8.8 million cap hit. Is that better?

Christian Ehrhoff +6 10 points
Sami Salo +10 7 points


Garrison +7 2 points
Ballard +4 1 point


I know which pair I would be picking.

Hint: Its the one that helped us get to the Stanley cup finals.


Salo who has a track record of playing 50% of the time, and Ehrhoff. You're taking 2 players on 2 different team's respective top units.

If they were on our team they wouldn't have those numbers, since we have better defensive depth.
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#278 Pouria

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:24 PM

Also if Ehrhoff signed for $5m+/year, Edler would have gotten $6m.


The way Edler is playing right now, he doesn't even deserve the money that Ehrhoff is making, never mind making $1 mil more than him. He has been playing worse defense than Ehrhoff right now.
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#279 Pouria

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:26 PM

Salo who has a track record of playing 50% of the time, and Ehrhoff. You're taking 2 players on 2 different team's respective top units.

If they were on our team they wouldn't have those numbers, since we have better defensive depth.


Salo playing 50% of the time still makes the team unbeatable during his playing time. Do you take a crappy defenseman that plays 100% of the time or a great defenseman that might be injury prone due to dumb luck. Forget about comparing Ehrhoff and Ballard because that is not even close.

Also, if they were on our team, they would be getting top minutes because Edler and Hamhuis has been crapting the bed. Don't even talk about Garrison, because he wouldn't even be here with those two. Fact of the matter is that we would have a top PP unit in the league if we still had Ehrhoff and Salo.

Edited by Pouria, 17 February 2013 - 11:28 PM.

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#280 jovocop55

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:27 PM

he will be solid but will be no where near the guy in florida... another bad contract like ballard..
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#281 DeNiro

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:29 PM

So first this team is too soft for the playoffs. But people want Ehrhoff and Salo over Ballard and Garrison?

You can't have it both ways. Points aren't everything from the D, they need to be able to play defense first and foremost. And I would say the fact that we're top 3 in GAA, we're doing pretty good.

This team always goes through it's begining of the season struggles on D until they finally settle in. It happens every year.

What was the one constant on our powerplay with Salo and Ehrhoff? It was Kesler up front on the powerplay screening the goalie. Don't underestimate that aspect of our production on the PP.

Edited by DeNiro, 17 February 2013 - 11:31 PM.

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#282 shazzam

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:30 PM

Too bad we were not able to sign Schultz, he could have brought what Ehrhoff did. Not going to be easy time find someone to fill this role.
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#283 Pouria

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:32 PM

I've been saying this stuff since 2011. People are finally realizing this. Ehrhoff took the Sedins to the next level, just like how the Sedins did the same thing to Ehrhoff. Losing Ehrhoff was huge, especially since they haven't replaced him yet. The Sedins will never be 100 pt players in this league again.


I agree with you. Its funny that people think Garrison is some offensive wizard. He sucks at skating, takes a lot of stupid penalties and can't even hit the net worth crap. I don't know how the hell he managed to get 16 goals in Florida. He sure fooled Gillis.
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#284 shazzam

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:34 PM

Yeah, Garrison really lacks the mobility from the point to get his shots through. He needs to be setup so he can one-time to be effective.
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#285 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:38 PM

Garrison looks bad, but Erhoff was the biggest plug in the SCF on the team, may as well have handed Chara the cup himself.
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#286 Pouria

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:39 PM

So first this team is too soft for the playoffs. But people want Ehrhoff and Salo over Ballard and Garrison?

You can't have it both ways. Points aren't everything from the D, they need to be able to play defense first and foremost. And I would say the fact that we're top 3 in GAA, we're doing pretty good.

This team always goes through it's begining of the season struggles on D until they finally settle in. It happens every year.

What was the one constant on our powerplay with Salo and Ehrhoff? It was Kesler up front on the powerplay screening the goalie. Don't underestimate that aspect of our production on the PP.


I'd rather have a soft team that can make the finals than have a crappy tough team. Gillis vision was to model this team after the Detroit Red Wings who employed highly skilled European players with lots of depth. Now he has deviated from that because we lost to a bunch of skilled goons in Boston Bruins in the finals and had a bunch of injuries before that series. Our team in 2011 was a Championship caliber team that was unlucky due to injuries to Malhotra, Ehrhoff, Kesler and Hamhuis. I really believed we would've won if the circumstances were a bit different. Its too bad we lost that offensive edge and lost a character player in Torres. This team isn't any tougher than the 2011 team either, aside from the Kassian addition.
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#287 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:41 PM

I've been saying this stuff since 2011. People are finally realizing this. Ehrhoff took the Sedins to the next level, just like how the Sedins did the same thing to Ehrhoff. Losing Ehrhoff was huge, especially since they haven't replaced him yet. The Sedins will never be 100 pt players in this league again.


I realized it from the first day. It's just really too bad we coudln't get things done. I honestly believe someone like Christian Ehrhoff deserves more money then somoene like Kevin Bieksa. Heck after Hank Dan, then Ryan Kesler, I really believe Christian Ehrhoff is our next best player.

Garrison looks bad, but Erhoff was the biggest plug in the SCF on the team, may as well have handed Chara the cup himself.


... Ehrhoff played with a shoulder injury. Also without him, I don't think our team would have won the Presidents trophy, Sedins woudln't have won art rosses, and we wouldn't have made it that far that year.

Edited by MoneypuckOverlord, 17 February 2013 - 11:50 PM.

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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#288 Xbox

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:41 PM

he will be solid but will be no where near the guy in florida... another bad contract like ballard..


Ballard has been great this year
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#289 Pouria

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:45 PM

Ballard has been great this year


The problem with our defense is that none of them can get their shot through from the point, whether its Hamhuis, Edler or Garrison. The only D-man that can get their shot through most of the time is Bieksa. Ehrhoff and Salo were pretty good at getting their shots through from the point, and that is why we had the best PP in 2011.
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#290 snolan

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:48 PM

Garrison looks bad, but Erhoff was the biggest plug in the SCF on the team, may as well have handed Chara the cup himself.


He was pretty badly injured though - like 3/4 of our team by that point.
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#291 zejono

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:55 PM

It's early into the season but when it's a 48 game season it's hard to stay patient with what I consider a pretty "sub-par to awful" debut for the Canucks defenseman.

All I've been hearing throughout the off-season about Jason Garrison is how he's a younger Sami Salo with great defensive abilities and all around game. From what I've seen throughout the season so far is that he is a terrible skater with average speed and very little mobility. Something that's going to expose him in a lot of puck battles and turnovers in neutral zone. This has been very evident in 5 of the last 6 games we've played so far this season.

He just doesn't have the skating to stay in great position and he tends to lose his man a lot. That's not Sami Salo at all. I think this is something that hurts him in the offensive zone too like the PP when he doesn't have the skating ability to get to open ice and hammer the puck. He seems to take a long time to wind up and get his shot off so it's no surprise that rushing it has made his accuracy abysmal.

I commend his hard work, because he truly does play like he gives a damn but just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll get the results.

Anyone else worried about his skating? His stride is horrific and very short and when he is forced to pivot and turn on a dime he consistently gets beat. Him and Edler have been a nightmare in their own end, unable to move the puck up the ice.

I'm only concerned because our window to win a stanley cup is rapidly closing with this core and we don't exactly have that great of a promising prospect pool in the calibre of Edmonton's talent.


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#292 Bang Bang Boogie

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:06 AM

Garrison looks bad, but Erhoff was the biggest plug in the SCF on the team, may as well have handed Chara the cup himself.


This is one of the worst posts I've seen in a while.
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#293 Gollumpus

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:12 AM

Garrison 4.6 + Ballard 4.2 = 8.8 million cap hit. Is that better?

Christian Ehrhoff +6 10 points
Sami Salo +10 7 points


Garrison +7 2 points
Ballard +4 1 point


I know which pair I would be picking.

Hint: Its the one that helped us get to the Stanley cup finals.


Lies, damned lies and statistics...

Just a couple of other relevant numbers:

Buffalo is 6th in goals for, but last in goals against. TB is 1st in goals for, but 21st in goals against. Vancouver is 9th in goals for and 5th in goals against.

TB is 4th with a +10 in goals differential. Vancouver is 5th at +8. Buffalo is 24th at -8.

Buffalo is 24th in the League, 12th in their conference and 5th in their division. TB is 19th in the League, 9th in their confernce and 2nd in their division. Vancouver is 7th in the NHL.


So, both Buffalo and TB have scored more goals than the Canucks, but their teams haven't got as many points in the standings as the Canucks.

Vancouver has a better goals against, and does have more points in the standings than either Burralo or TB.

One team has a higher goal differential than Vancouver, and the other has a lower goal differential than Vancouver, and Vancouver has a better standing in the NHL than either of them.

Keep us apprised as to the guys you'd be picking and how their respective teams are making out.


Led all Canuck d-men in points in the playoffs with an injured shoulder for half of the playoffs. His +/- wasn't great although the Sedins' wasn't either.


A factor which seems to be neglected in the whole Ehrhoff story is, if he was getting the majority of the prime opportunities to get points, wouldn't it follow that he would likely get more points than the guys who didn't those opportunities? When he was here, if Ehrhoff was getting the majority of the power play time, and was on the ice with the Sedins more often than not, wouldn't it follow that he would likely get more points than guys like Salo?

regards,
G.
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#294 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:16 AM

I agree with you. Its funny that people think Garrison is some offensive wizard. He sucks at skating, takes a lot of stupid penalties and can't even hit the net worth crap. I don't know how the hell he managed to get 16 goals in Florida. He sure fooled Gillis.



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#295 DeNiro

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:16 AM

I agree with you. Its funny that people think Garrison is some offensive wizard. He sucks at skating, takes a lot of stupid penalties and can't even hit the net worth crap. I don't know how the hell he managed to get 16 goals in Florida. He sure fooled Gillis.


Funny how Ballard, Bieksa, and Edler all have more penalties than him.

He sucks at skating huh? Well that's just a dumb statement. Just because he doesn't have Ballard or Hamhuis' skating ability doesn't mean he sucks...

And as far as hitting the net, he has pretty much the same amount of missed shots as Edler.

So instead of singling out one guy, how about you judge him comparatively to everyone else on the team. When your two supposedly best defenseman are having trouble getting pucks through, maybe it's the system, and not the personnel. I haven't exactly been thrilled with the Canucks puck movement on the PP, have you?

Edited by DeNiro, 18 February 2013 - 12:17 AM.

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#296 Pouria

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:20 AM

Lies, damned lies and statistics...

Just a couple of other relevant numbers:

Buffalo is 6th in goals for, but last in goals against. TB is 1st in goals for, but 21st in goals against. Vancouver is 9th in goals for and 5th in goals against.

TB is 4th with a +10 in goals differential. Vancouver is 5th at +8. Buffalo is 24th at -8.

Buffalo is 24th in the League, 12th in their conference and 5th in their division. TB is 19th in the League, 9th in their confernce and 2nd in their division. Vancouver is 7th in the NHL.


So, both Buffalo and TB have scored more goals than the Canucks, but their teams haven't got as many points in the standings as the Canucks.

Vancouver has a better goals against, and does have more points in the standings than either Burralo or TB.

One team has a higher goal differential than Vancouver, and the other has a lower goal differential than Vancouver, and Vancouver has a better standing in the NHL than either of them.

Keep us apprised as to the guys you'd be picking and how their respective teams are making out.




A factor which seems to be neglected in the whole Ehrhoff story is, if he was getting the majority of the prime opportunities to get points, wouldn't it follow that he would likely get more points than the guys who didn't those opportunities? When he was here, if Ehrhoff was getting the majority of the power play time, and was on the ice with the Sedins more often than not, wouldn't it follow that he would likely get more points than guys like Salo?

regards,
G.


Does he take the Sedins with him when he is playing in Buffalo and has 10 points right now? Vancouver is lucky that they have two elite goalies backstopping their team. Garrison has the advantage of playing on a good team. The way some of you hype this guy up people would think we were talking about Pronger or something. Garrison has been horrible on offense and below average to average on defense. He hasn't looked good whether we are talking about stats or actual play. If you really think Salo and Ehrhoff were not contributing to our SCF team, then you were not watching hockey.
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#297 elvis15

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:26 AM

Led all Canuck d-men in points in the playoffs with an injured shoulder for half of the playoffs. His +/- wasn't great although the Sedins' wasn't either.

Worst +/- on the team, and less effective when the going got tougher (injury or no). He has great skill and brought some excellent things to this team, but he was also not nearly as effective in other areas. I'm not saying he's bad, but he's not better than everyone else either.

We offered him a contract and he refused it. We weren't going to give him a 10 year deal like he got in Buffalo, so we traded him rather than get nothing.

Oh I don't know...President trophy champ, Western Conference Champ, Stanley cup finalist with Kesler getting Selke and Henrik getting Hart and Art Ross and the team winning the Jennings for the lowest GAA in the league. Yep, he really didn't have much impact at all. Not to mention the #1 PP in the league.

Regulars season stats weren't what I was asking for but thanks. And I'm glad you think he was a major contributor in all the things you're mentioning. He helped, but he's certainly not the same without everyone else that was a part of that as well.
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#298 playboi19

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:29 AM

It's becoming harder and harder to overlook.

Jason Garrison = Shea Weber

Damn you Gillis!
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#299 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:39 AM

We're essentially using the cap we got from Salo/Ehrhoff for this guy. He doesn't replace one, let alone both. I wish MG would have just realized how important Ehrhoff was to this team and singed him instead of being a dumb frack and letting him walk.

The only proof you need for Ehrhoff's importance to the team's offence is this; the only two seasons he played for the Canucks, a Sedin lead the league in points. Without him, both Sedins played a PPG before and after his departure.

MG chose Booth over Ehrhoff and boy didn't that work out? Biggest mistake of his career right now. MG 's knowledge about the defense position is very weak with the way he has handled it. Got a great asset who performed great and failed to lock him up and signed a string of mediocre guys (Ballard, Garrsion).

MG should give control of the defense core to someone else, he can't do it.


Actually he chose Bieksa over Ehrhoff. I am a Bieksa hater persay but I would have done the same, at the time Bieksa was far more important to this team, and when he is one this game he still is.

Ehrhoff didn't want to be here, he wasn't willing to buy in, as simple as that.

Has any team struggled to find consistent D-pairings in the past 4 or 5 years more than the Canucks?

Even with guys like Ohlund, Salo, Mitchell, and Ehrhoff, this team constantly melted down on D at times, especially in the playoffs.

Guess who's responsible for the D? Bowness. The only reason he's the assistant coach is because he comes as a package deal with AV.

The only consistent pair he's managed to form is Ballard and Tanev.


Good, then both of them can go.

I can't believe how many times posters on here continue to make snap judgements only to be proven wrong.

You wait for one bad game to say "I told you so". And then as soon as Garrison starts producing on the PP, you'll just disappear, and find another player to rag on.


Exactly. We have already seen people harshly judge Kassian and been proven dead wrong, aswell people were bashing the Sedins early on, and now look them.

Oh and don't you remember all the people wanting to trade Kesler in the offseason? Boy he looks great right now.

Garrison wasn't signed just for his offense, and if he was used properly we would maybe be able to use his bomb. But unfortunatly the coaching staff doesn't want to do that.

He had a great game tonight IMO. He is just getting settled, you can see has the ability.
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#300 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:55 AM

So first this team is too soft for the playoffs. But people want Ehrhoff and Salo over Ballard and Garrison?


No kidding. People are talking out both sides.

This team isn't any tougher than the 2011 team either, aside from the Kassian addition.


I guess you think that adding Booth isn't an upgrade in size and physicality.

This team needed to get bigger, and we did that and did it effectively with the additions of Booth, Kassian, Garrison, & Weise.

Lies, damned lies and statistics...

Just a couple of other relevant numbers:

Buffalo is 6th in goals for, but last in goals against. TB is 1st in goals for, but 21st in goals against. Vancouver is 9th in goals for and 5th in goals against.

TB is 4th with a +10 in goals differential. Vancouver is 5th at +8. Buffalo is 24th at -8.

Buffalo is 24th in the League, 12th in their conference and 5th in their division. TB is 19th in the League, 9th in their confernce and 2nd in their division. Vancouver is 7th in the NHL.


So, both Buffalo and TB have scored more goals than the Canucks, but their teams haven't got as many points in the standings as the Canucks.


Vancouver has a better goals against, and does have more points in the standings than either Burralo or TB.

One team has a higher goal differential than Vancouver, and the other has a lower goal differential than Vancouver, and Vancouver has a better standing in the NHL than either of them.

Keep us apprised as to the guys you'd be picking and how their respective teams are making out.

A factor which seems to be neglected in the whole Ehrhoff story is, if he was getting the majority of the prime opportunities to get points, wouldn't it follow that he would likely get more points than the guys who didn't those opportunities? When he was here, if Ehrhoff was getting the majority of the power play time, and was on the ice with the Sedins more often than not, wouldn't it follow that he would likely get more points than guys like Salo?


An absolutely brilliant post. Especially the highlighted part.

I guess people haven't seen the playoffs in recent years, it has been all about goaltending and defense. No wonder us, Chicago, Philly and Pittsburgh have all been unsuccessful while teams that play defensive styles that rely on having some toughness, physicality and defense like New Jersey, LA and Boston have had success.

Funny how Ballard, Bieksa, and Edler all have more penalties than him.

He sucks at skating huh? Well that's just a dumb statement. Just because he doesn't have Ballard or Hamhuis' skating ability doesn't mean he sucks...


I thought he is skating is fine, he joins the rush at times and I think he has the speed to do so, he's not the fastest of our D-men but neither was Salo, and I would say he is faster than Salo myself.

Does he take the Sedins with him when he is playing in Buffalo and has 10 points right now? Vancouver is lucky that they have two elite goalies backstopping their team. Garrison has the advantage of playing on a good team. The way some of you hype this guy up people would think we were talking about Pronger or something. Garrison has been horrible on offense and below average to average on defense. He hasn't looked good whether we are talking about stats or actual play. If you really think Salo and Ehrhoff were not contributing to our SCF team, then you were not watching hockey.


I guess what you forget before making a post like this, is that Ehrhoff is playing beside the hottest player in the league Vanek and one of the other hottest in Pominville.

You also forget Garrison is getting 2nd PP time and very little of it.

More-so you also forget when Ehrhoff was here our PP was partially built around using him to the greatest benefit we could, something we haven't yet done with Jason Garrison.

Worst +/- on the team, and less effective when the going got tougher (injury or no). He has great skill and brought some excellent things to this team, but he was also not nearly as effective in other areas. I'm not saying he's bad, but he's not better than everyone else either.

We offered him a contract and he refused it. We weren't going to give him a 10 year deal like he got in Buffalo, so we traded him rather than get nothing.


Shhhh. Quiet. Logic and more advanced thinking has no place here.

The bottom line is Ehrhoff left cause we didn't meet his demands. So it's all MG's fault! Fire him!

:bigblush:
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