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Toughness proves to be a winning formula


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#61 Rypien37

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

So......how about those fights last night........ :bigblush:
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#62 Understand

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

So......how about those fights last night........ :bigblush:


Those fights proved that Weise and Lappy should not be droppiong the groves again.
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#63 Salmonberries

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:00 PM

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#64 Rypien37

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:38 PM

Those fights proved that Weise and Lappy should not be droppiong the groves again.


Yeah....that was my point....

Understand, you need to do a better job trying to understand.
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#65 Rypien37

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:40 PM

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Which ones Lapierre?
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#66 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:14 AM

Toughness isn't the key to winning cups, goaltending is.
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#67 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:18 AM

Also, toughness isn't a remedy for having an overall bad team and bad management.


Yeah we have a terrible team and terrible management, I guess we should just blow it up like Edmonton did and start picking last every year.
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#68 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:19 AM

Those fights were unnecessary and cost us the momentum of the game. There is no reason to be fighting there.
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#69 stexx

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:24 AM

from the past 7cup winners it is fairly obvious that you cannot win on pure skill or purely gooning it up. The right blend of skill, toughness, goaltending and sacrifice are needed to win.

Do the canucks have the perfect blend right now? Not quite but they are very close to it and the right trade deadline moves could solidify this roster in every facet of the game.
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#70 Rypien37

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:25 AM

Yeah we have a terrible team and terrible management, I guess we should just blow it up like Edmonton did and start picking last every year.


Wow......does anyone on this board actually read a post thoroughly before responding?

That was referring to the Leafs..... :picard:
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#71 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:28 AM

Wow......does anyone on this board actually read a post thoroughly before responding?

That was referring to the Leafs..... :picard:


Alright, then if toughness isn't a remedy for them, how in the hell is it supposed to be the remedy for us?? :lol:

We need a good mix of everything, and we have that. Toughness isn't about fighting in the playoffs, it is about physicality, and we have made great strides since the cup loss.
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#72 Rypien37

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:32 AM

Alright, then if toughness isn't a remedy for them, how in the hell is it supposed to be the remedy for us?? :lol:

We need a good mix of everything, and we have that. Toughness isn't about fighting in the playoffs, it is about physicality, and we have made great strides since the cup loss.


You think so? Alright, lets talk again in May.
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#73 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:36 AM

You think so? Alright, lets talk again in May.


Yeah we do.

The only team tougher than us to win a cup since the lockout is Boston.

LA wasn't any tougher than us, guys like Nolan and King and Fraser are guys who can play and bring grit and will fight, not goons, and we have guys like that: Weise, Volpatti, Lappierre.

Anaheim had that shutdown line that was just clutch for them, that was really the key to there success.

Chicago didn't have toughness like you want, niether did Pittsburgh, Detriot or Carolina.

Goaltending is the key, not toughness. It's no surprise to me the last 2 Conn Smythe winners have been goaltenders.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 17 February 2013 - 12:37 AM.

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#74 Rypien37

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:43 AM

Yeah we do.

The only team tougher than us to win a cup since the lockout is Boston.

LA wasn't any tougher than us, guys like Nolan and King and Fraser are guys who can play and bring grit and will fight, not goons, and we have guys like that: Weise, Volpatti, Lappierre.

Anaheim had that shutdown line that was just clutch for them, that was really the key to there success.

Chicago didn't have toughness like you want, niether did Pittsburgh, Detriot or Carolina.

Goaltending is the key, not toughness. It's no surprise to me the last 2 Conn Smythe winners have been goaltenders.



Take a look at our current top 9.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen


ONE, count it, ONE player out of the forwards who will be playing the majority of the time, in key situations, is tough.

We only have 2 legitimately tough forwards on our whole roster. Volpatti and Kassian.

If you honestly think we are tough enough, I won't bother arguing. Just be sure to bring this thread up during the playoffs.

edit: Kings had: Brown, Richards, King, Nolan, Clifford, Fraser, Greene, Mitchel and Penner who either brought big size and hits or toughness to the table. In NO way were we tougher then them, and it showed.

When a player like Dustin Brown is your captain, you know you have a gritty team.

Edited by Rypien37, 17 February 2013 - 12:49 AM.

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#75 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

Take a look at our current top 9.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen


ONE, count it, ONE player out of the forwards who will be playing the majority of the time, in key situations, is tough.

We only have 2 legitimately tough forwards on our whole roster. Volpatti and Kassian.

If you honestly think we are tough enough, I won't bother arguing. Just be sure to bring this thread up during the playoffs.


Alright by that logic.

Boston has 2 players who are tough in there forward group.

Thornton and Lucic.

If you think Horton is tough, then Kesler is tough.

Oh and LA, the only guy they have who is tough is Clifford.

And then look at Chicago, Andrew Shaw, Jamal Mayers are really the only regulars, maybe you could make a case for Bickell.

If you think toughness is just fighting, then I think you are looking at it the wrong way, as there are rarely fights in the playoffs, unless games are lopsided.

But okay, if you think we really need another goon, then we can trade a 6th round pick for some goon like Jody Shelley, and have him sit in the press box for the playoffs. Pure goons/fighters dont really help in the playoffs, thats why Vandermeer likely won't see much time in our run this year.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 17 February 2013 - 12:49 AM.

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#76 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:53 AM

And with Gillis seemingly becoming more, not less, of a hockey pacifist with the passing of time I'm convinced he is ideologically driven to try to succeed with no toughness or to die trying. A more pragmatic GM would make the necessary adjustments with a cup contender and add those two critically important muscle players for the fourth line in place of Lapierre and Weise. But Gillis was lucky enough to inherit a cup contender and goddammit he's gonna prove his point come hell or high water.
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#77 Rypien37

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:56 AM

Alright by that logic.

Boston has 2 players who are tough in there forward group.

Thornton and Lucic.

If you think Horton is tough, then Kesler is tough.

Oh and LA, the only guy they have who is tough is Clifford.

And then look at Chicago, Andrew Shaw, Jamal Mayers are really the only regulars, maybe you could make a case for Bickell.

If you think toughness is just fighting, then I think you are looking at it the wrong way, as there are rarely fights in the playoffs, unless games are lopsided.

But okay, if you think we really need another goon, then we can trade a 6th round pick for some goon like Jody Shelley, and have him sit in the press box for the playoffs. Pure goons/fighters dont really help in the playoffs, thats why Vandermeer likely won't see much time in our run this year.


Read my edited post.

Boston's 2011 playoff lineup had: Lucic, Thornton, Campbell, McQuaid, Hornton, Boychuk and Chara. All who are a minimum above average fighters.

As for LA, Jordan Nolan is technically there designated fighter now.

In 2012, both Nolan 6'3 234 and King 6'3 227 (also a decent fighter) were inserted into the top 9.

In 2010, Blackhawks had the likes of: Bickell, Boynton, Brouwer, Burish, Bfugylien, Eager, Fraser and to an extent Ladd and Seabrook.

Edited by Rypien37, 17 February 2013 - 01:06 AM.

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#78 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:57 AM

And with Gillis seemingly becoming more, not less, of a hockey pacifist with the passing of time I'm convinced he is ideologically driven to try to succeed with no toughness or to die trying. A more pragmatic GM would make the necessary adjustments with a cup contender and add those two critically important muscle players for the fourth line in place of Lapierre and Weise. But Gillis was lucky enough to inherit a cup contender and goddammit he's gonna prove his point come hell or high water.


I guess you haven't seen our team get bigger, more physical and tougher since the cup run then. Which we have, if you have listened to MG he has said all along that we have been trying to get bigger and more physical.

Add 4th line goons that play 30 seconds a game when the score is lopsided isn't a benefit. Having guys who bring grit, can play and help somewhere else and can fight are huge, not goons. That's why pure fighters are never regulars in the playoffs.
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#79 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:03 AM

I guess you haven't seen our team get bigger, more physical and tougher since the cup run then. Which we have, if you have listened to MG he has said all along that we have been trying to get bigger and more physical.

Add 4th line goons that play 30 seconds a game when the score is lopsided isn't a benefit. Having guys who bring grit, can play and help somewhere else and can fight are huge, not goons. That's why pure fighters are never regulars in the playoffs.

Bringing 'grit' is just hockey jargon for not being tough enough. 'Grit guys' are always the guys that end up on the wrong side of an ass whuppin'. Grit guys are beta's that don't scare anyone. We have the market cornered on 'grit' already.
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#80 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:04 AM

edit: Kings had: Brown, Richards, King, Nolan, Clifford, Fraser, Greene, Mitchel and Penner who either brought big size and hits or toughness to the table. In NO way were we tougher then them, and it showed.

When a player like Dustin Brown is your captain, you know you have a gritty team.

Read by edited post.

Boston's 2011 playoff line had: Lucic, Thornton, Campbell, McQuaid, Hornton, Boychuk and Chara. All who are a minimum above average fighters.


The guys I highlighted aren't tough fighters.

If they are all classified as tough guys, then we have:

Kesler, Kassian, Bieksa, Hansen, Lappierre, Volpatti, Weise, Burrows, Garrison, Ballard, Alberts who all fall under that category aswell then.

Toughness in the playoffs is about physicality, an areas we have continued to address and have addressed.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 17 February 2013 - 01:07 AM.

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#81 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:07 AM

Bringing 'grit' is just hockey jargon for not being tough enough. 'Grit guys' are always the guys that end up on the wrong side of an ass whuppin'. Grit guys are beta's that don't scare anyone. We have the market cornered on 'grit' already.


Well thats what everyone else has. So I guess they are in the same boat as us then.
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#82 DeNiro

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:11 AM

Well thats what everyone else has. So I guess they are in the same boat as us then.


Yea, I don't know why people seem to think that every other team is so tough. There are few teams in the league that are actually really tough.

The Canucks have enough toughness to match most of the teams in the league.

Of course if we can add a tough guy that can play we will, but those players aren't readily available very often.

Edited by DeNiro, 17 February 2013 - 01:12 AM.

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#83 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:12 AM

Well thats what everyone else has. So I guess they are in the same boat as us then.

Nope, no one ever calls the real pugilists 'gritty'.

They are always called tough guys.
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#84 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:15 AM

I actually wish that you could win a cup with no toughness like Gillis and the Red Wings and the Canadiens brass believes you can.

But I think if anything, the pendulum has swung the other way.
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#85 DeNiro

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:18 AM

I actually wish that you could win a cup with no toughness like Gillis and the Red Wings and the Canadiens brass believes you can.

But I think if anything, the pendulum has swung the other way.


How did we beat the big bad Sharks, and take the toughest team in the league to game 7 if we lacked so much toughness?

This team isn't built on toughness, it's built on skill and outworking the opposition. If we wanna completely change the teams dynamic, we would have to blow it up and rebuild.
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#86 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:21 AM

Yea, I don't know why people seem to think that every other team is so tough. There are few teams in the league that are actually really tough.

The Canucks have enough toughness to match most of the teams in the league.

Of course if we can add a tough guy that can play we will, but those players aren't readily available very often.

Wasn't Zenon Kanopka a UFA last summer?

I think he would change the dynamic quite a bit if you slide him into Lapierre's spot.

Signed for less than Lapierre too!!

http://www.capgeek.com/player/913

http://www.capgeek.com/player/85
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#87 pwnstar

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:24 AM

Don Cherry also said this on Saturday. There is a point to having enforcer-types and bangers, yes. But what the senile old fart forgot is that TO has seen a lot of those guys come and go during this long, long playoff drought.

But now it's a 'formula'?

Please...


lol
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#88 Cromeslab

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:27 AM

Toughness?pfffft were more than tough enough we just need timely goaltending
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#89 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:27 AM

I admit I'm just spitballin' here, but imagine if we then pried Mike Brown out of Toronto somehow.

Suddenly your fourth line is Volpatti-Konopka-Brown. All three are mid-sized tough players that can skate, and they play for very little money. Doesn't this little bit of tinkering change the look quite a bit?
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#90 Rypien37

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:27 AM

The guys I highlighted aren't tough fighters.

If they are all classified as tough guys, then we have:

Kesler, Kassian, Bieksa, Hansen, Lappierre, Volpatti, Weise, Burrows, Garrison, Ballard, Alberts who all fall under that category aswell then.

Toughness in the playoffs is about physicality, an areas we have continued to address and have addressed.


LOL. OK here is my cue to stop this discussion with you.

You need to brush up on your knowledge about other teams players before starting this discussion.

You clearly have NO idea who Jordan Nolan or Dwight King are or have ever seen Boychuk or Chara fight.

Edited by Rypien37, 17 February 2013 - 01:30 AM.

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