Baggins Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I'm sorry Baggins, your argument only works if you accept a) that theses players are even worth what they have been given, including an NTC which Detroit don't seem to see the need to scatter like confetti. That the bulk of the Canucks players on over $4.5M are actually better than the Detroit players on less. The only way I would have been happy with the $4+M contracts most of these Canucks are on is if they HAD NOT been given NTCs. Most of our team can't get it up come the playoffs. Edler is a glaring example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Twice the player? No he isn't Bodee. If Gillis acquired Franzen you'd be complaining about how he's an inconsistent, aging player and how MG should be fired for trading for or signing him. Burrows is slightly overpaid in his upcoming contract but he still brings a lot to the table and is just as valuable as Johan Franzen, who goes unnoticeable for long stretches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Every one of them would have got more on the open market. Many here, you included, undervalue player contracts. And Detroit just signs their guys for life instead of the NTC and pays top dollar. How has that worked out for moving Lou's contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Just a little perspective: From the years 2001-2006, the RedWings were eliminated in the first round 3 of 5 seasons, including being swept, and winning a Cup.. In those 5 seasons, they won 252 regular season games. Those were teams that included: Yzerman Shanahan Fedorov Datsyuk Lidstrom Chelios Hull Robitaille Larionov Draper Maltby Holmstrom Hasek and replaced a few of those guys with: Zetteburg Kronwall Franzen Filppula Samuelsson Lang Hudler 3 first round exits in 5 years with those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 You have no idea what I would say. Burrows is an undrafted grafter. A player who gets to play with 2 of the finest play makers in the game. Scoring 33 pts in 67 playoff games Franzen is much bigger and better and has scored 73 pts in 87 playoff games and drafted 97th while only a year older. Yes he's twice the player and most on here would take him over Burrows in a heartbeat. Of course I like Burrows, he's on my team and I like his wholehearted play but I don't let that affect my judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 You have no idea what I would say. Burrows is an undrafted grafter. A player who gets to play with 2 of the finest play makers in the game. Scoring 33 pts in 67 playoff games Franzen is much bigger and better and has scored 73 pts in 87 playoff games and drafted 97th while only a year older. Yes he's twice the player and most on here would take him over Burrows in a heartbeat. Of course I like Burrows, he's on my team and I like his wholehearted play but I don't let that affect my judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotesMagotes Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Detroit has players who can elevate their games in the post season. The Canucks have Kesler....that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Nothing on these boards is really surprising anymore. The amount of people whining about Burrows this last week is ridiculous - but predictable. He scored 3 points in 4 games and was a +1 in 4 games in the playoffs, had +22.3 corsi on, and he spent a ridiculous 4 minutes a game killing penalties. He scored 117 goals in the past 4 seasons - the vast majority of them 5 on 5 - for a grand total of $6.525 million combined over those four seasons. This season he 'only' lead the team in goals, and was a mere +15. He is still a serious cap bargain at $4.5. A guy who you'd think by now everyone would realize does literally everything - scores, kills penalties, goes to the front of the net and takes punishment as well as sets extremely effective screens, cycles with the best in the NHL, is an absolute puck hound who pursues the puck relentlessly, does his share of hitting and blocking shots, scores the clutch goals - some of the biggest in franchise history, never takes a shift off, is an insane +131 in the equivalent of 7 NHL seasons, moves up and down the lineup wherever the Canucks need to supplement a weakness, was an undrafted FA who cost the franchise absolutely nothing, and wants nothing more than to remain a Canuck...wtf do people want/expect? Waaah....booohooo....MG gave him a NTC! Can you believe it? Fire MG! Assinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 20 games out of 82 isn't "most of the season" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 Let's put it this way, would you trade two of Burrows if you had them for one of Franzen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 Great post! Matt Sekeras this week was campaigning for moving Burr. What an idiot.....we need 2 forwards that make the twins, Kes and Burr better and he wants to trade our most reliable clutch scorer. I don't get this fan base people seriously want to blow it up??? This team needs Kassian and Booth to step up in those roles and not fail. it needs to get a quality veteran C like Legwand, Vermette or Matthias and sign Torres or Penner to get us some weight. A healthy Tanev and Schneider would be huge as well as getting rid of the albatross in Luongo. Retool and well be back people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 You have no idea how valuable Burrows is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 You call Sekeras an idiot and then liken Luongo to an "albatross"................classy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 Having players on your team that do not want to be there is detrimental. I could have chosen better words, but IMO a lot of things happened that fractured the teams unity this season and the biggest was not moving Roberto. As a Raymond fan how do you think he liked getting a hair cut on his pay after struggling because he was recovering from a broken back and I'm sure guys really appreciated the way Manny was shut down embarrassingly this season. Sekeras like no other on 1040 drives me crazy. Spouting off this week about trading Burr was annoying to say the least. He bulldozes his callers and co hosts and thinks he is the only person with an informed opinion. Tell me Bodee would you trade the current Canucks for the current Wings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 "Albatross" is used to refer to contracts with long terms/'reach' - there are a number of very good players in the NHL who are nevertheless referred to as "albatross" contracts - Franzen, Luo, Kovalchuk, Weber, Suter, Zetteburg, Dipietro, Richards, Carter, Bryzgalov, etc - all players who will need to be productive for a very long time/lifetime - contracts that are arguably "albatross" contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day one Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Detroit is a destination hockey club, MG said he was going to make Vancouver one but did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 keys to a good life: value excellence realize limitations all is one and one is all mg's value is not excellence, but good value for the money (moneyball). so... we get good market value for middle-line players. that's great, but it is overestimating limitations. and underestimating excellence. I'd rather have a few more "real" star players and fewer middle-upper fence type players - I'd rather let the top be the top, and the bottom be the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 The Blackhawks changed little, but were patient. They had a strong core with Kane, Toews, Sharp, Kieth, Seabrook, Hossa... What they lost was all their role players, plus some of their size, speed and grit; aka their depth. But with patience Hjallmarsson, Saad, Shaw, Stalberg and Nick Leddy have grown into support roles, Bickle add's size. Crawford is suddenly solid... Now the Canucks also have lost much of their size and speed. No Torres, Malhotra, Erhoff is a big loss. We're waiting on our young guys, just with cap coming down we have to make at least another correction. That's been my point (if I read that correctly), since the Blackhawks went out in the first round the previous two years but made only minimal changes. Look at them this year. The Canucks have a little more to change perhaps, but it certainly doesn't have to be "fire the coach and GM, trade the Sedins, Edler, Burrows, Bieksa and Luongo, trade everything we have for top picks this year and rebuild." AV gone is a strong possibility, Luongo gone is even stronger, and maybe we do move another piece, but there won't be much in the way of significant change beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 The Blackhawks changed little, but were patient. They had a strong core with Kane, Toews, Sharp, Kieth, Seabrook, Hossa... What they lost was all their role players, plus some of their size, speed and grit; aka their depth. But with patience Hjallmarsson, Saad, Shaw, Stalberg and Nick Leddy have grown into support roles, Bickle add's size. Crawford is suddenly solid... Now the Canucks also have lost much of their size and speed. No Torres, Malhotra, Erhoff is a big loss. We're waiting on our young guys, just with cap coming down we have to make at least another correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I feel there's a deeper problem with the Canucks that the stats don't recognise. Since Linden and Naslund left/retired who among our young players have stepped in to supply secondary scoring? Raymond? Inconsistant, and not physical. We traded Hodgson for Kassian, and as he's a power forward he's going to take time to develop. We traded Grabner and a 1st for a D-man our coach won't play. Yes short term wise I understand why he did it. But long term we really didn't have room for skilled forwards? Huh? We traded Samuelsson and Sturm for Booth, and we got an inconsistent and oft-injured winger. Kesler has been a part of the skating wounded for two seasons now. We lost Manny to a career ending eye injury. That means outside of the Sedins, Burrows, Hansen, and Higgins we have zero secondary scoring. We can't even ice a consistent third line let alone a fourth. It's no damn wonder with the Sedin's at the World's, with a more talented supporting cast, and a better coach, they flourished. While the Canucks keep spinning our wheels. Now with our younger prospects are things looking better? Yes. But we have serious gaping holes in our lineup. Our defense on paper is solid, but Edler and Bieksa are both poster boys for inconsistency. If they are on their game they are great players. But on a bad night...oooh boy, are they bad. We need a team thats: - Healthier - Deeper - More Skilled - More Physical - Younger - Better coached - Better developed - Better contract management. Gillis seems to be like an agent working for a hockey team, and less like a GM making the tough decisions on who stays, who goes. I think there's too much of a country club atmosphere, and less of a competitive hockey club atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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