Bananas Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 10 games in, im still bitter about the Schenider <> 9th pick trade and the Hodgson <> Kassian trade. Literally traded a top 10 NHL goalie and a first line center away for ..... (I still hope Horvat turns out to be good). The real kick in the pants is the fact that Kesler is playing wing now that we have a real coach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Higgins and Hansen are on our 2nd line when we don't make the playoffs Higgins and Hansen are on our 3rd line when we make the playoffs and compete Higgins and Hansen are on our 4th line when we win the Stanley Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Does Schneids even have a win yet? And last time I checked Hodgson hasn't done anything worthwhile in the east other then rack up the minus stat. Kassian trade isn't bad for either team yet, nor the Schneids trade so just accept what's done is done. Yes, he shut out the Rangers on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 All I want is to bring in a top 6 winger without giving up too much. Either that, or Nick Jensen really needs to step up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 No worries Deb I'm still here too. Not sure if sarcasm >.> but maybe read my sig XD Also De Niro Great post and really good research. People think the Sedins are on a sharp decline but as you can see they have been as consistent as ever and are even getting better defensively. Trading/not resigning the Sedins would be the Canucks greatest mistake... even worse than the Neely trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Good post. I like reading logical and realistic, posts airing on the side of positivity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotesMagotes Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The canucks record doesn't reflect how they are playing lately. Ive been thrilled with most of the teams performances, especially the penguins game, this team has a great work ethic and is generating a ton of chances throughout the lineup. Soon more of those chances are going to end up in the net, the PP will get going and they will climb the standings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananas Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Overall, decent post DeNiro. The only problem I have with this philosophy is that it is one that is only addressing our record in the first 10 games. Right now, our record is par for the course, which is fine. It doesn't address the fact that our wins have been against cellar-dwellers. It doesn't address the fact that we have no second line, and there is not one in sight unless MG makes a move. It doesn't address how hand-cuffed this team is because of MG's NTCs and ageing vets. There are some players on this team that should have been liquidated back when they were assets. Now they're no longer assets, and MG has roped the fans into thinking that we're going to go for it again this year, when the smart thing to do would be to dump our assets and make room for prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 This is a dud year. Next year we will be bringing in a lot of younger guys (ie, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Corrado, etc) and we will be forced to make moves. We will have to move a defenseman because with the emergence of Stanton we are now overcrowded with young defensemen looking to jump up. We will have to move forwards to make room for our younger forwards. Guys like Booth, Higgins, Schroeder, etc need to really impress if they don't want to be moved. Guys like Santorelli will stay. This year we find out which of our core stays and which of our core goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So, does any of this sky is falling stuff really matter if we make the playoffs? Do we really need to be that President's trophy winning team right now to win in the playoffs? I mean, look where that got us. I think it's good for this team to be looking up, striving to catch other teams, rather than being the one to catch. It gives us both reason and room to improve. And if the season is about a steady improvement, staying in contention, being a playoff bound team, and staying on an upward track, there's a better chance that we won't burn out in the first round. Just because we're not the same team as 2011, does that mean we have to be? That was under a different system that didn't produce a Stanley Cup. Obviously the President's trophy isn't what we want... been that team, done that, and we're doing something different. DeNiro did a great job of showing where things really are with this team right now. The sky isn't falling and there's a lot to be optimistic about. We're .500 after ten games. Big deal! We're not 0-10. And we just took one of the best teams in the league to a shootout. Why isn't anyone focusing on that? It's obvious this team is getting better while still adapting to the new system. Are we at our best after ten games? Of course not! I'm not blind to the challenges, issues, and improvements we need to make. Are we as good as teams like Chicago and SJ? Well, I don't think we need to be right now, especially after ten games, with a new system and new coach. The fact is, we have to get better. And as long as we do, we'll be fine (see the Pittsburgh game for what we're capable of as a team even though we're still adapting). If we didn't have the skill, we wouldn't have been in the Pens game at all. And we actually dominated a lot of that game. That's a huge plus. I think people will have legit points by November/early to mid December if we 're well below .500 and it's clear the odds are against us. November will be key to coming together. And we've seen this team hit its stride in November many times. There's no way I'm going to start calling for new players, a rebuild, trades, etc until I get a fair sense of where this team really is. Ten games are not enough. Next month and into December, if this team isn't living up to expectations, you bet I'll be a lot more critical, especially when we've had enough time for everyone to find their game.... youth and veterans. But take Edler in the Pens game the other day. Would he have taken that shot from centre under AV, or would he have taken a few more strides and dumped it in? But look what happened by taking the chance, it led to a goal... and right now we need every goal we can get. As a whole, the team is shooting a lot more this season. That's a good thing. I agree with Torts on the point that the more shots we take, the more chances we create to score. And I do believe that under this system, those opportunities will eventually start to pay off. I'm really liking what I'm seeing from the aggressive shot perspective rather than a keep things close approach under AV. And our PP hasn't kicked in yet either. That doesn't mean it won't. Granted we're not getting a lot of opportunities, but it can only get better from here. So, what type of team will we be if or when they get the PP together along with the PK? And just because something isn't working at the moment - like the PP or the amount of shots and pucks going in the net - doesn't mean it won't be working a week from now. The fact that the PP isn't working now, IMO, just indicates that it will be working at some point ... hopefully it's sooner rather than later. I really don't think it's that hard to see the positives at this stage of the season. Sure it's easy to see the negatives but there are a lot of good things happening, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Can Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I've grown accustomed to mediocre starts from this team. That's always left me scratching my head by the way. Time and time again certain teams seem to follow a trend. Vancouver starts out slow and usually gets hot around Christmas. Toronto starts hot and usually flutters out later in the season. It doesn't really make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Overall, decent post DeNiro. The only problem I have with this philosophy is that it is one that is only addressing our record in the first 10 games. Right now, our record is par for the course, which is fine. It doesn't address the fact that our wins have been against cellar-dwellers. It doesn't address the fact that we have no second line, and there is not one in sight unless MG makes a move. It doesn't address how hand-cuffed this team is because of MG's NTCs and ageing vets. There are some players on this team that should have been liquidated back when they were assets. Now they're no longer assets, and MG has roped the fans into thinking that we're going to go for it again this year, when the smart thing to do would be to dump our assets and make room for prospects. I pointed out in the post that we only beat cellar dwellers in the first 10 games in two of our best seasons. The point is this team always starts slow and has trouble with the good teams early on. This is likely due to Luongo and our D finding their stride, and the lines finding chemistry. Our offense is still producing at the same rate without Burrows in the lineup, so that's pretty promising. 10 games is early, but the point is it shows a pattern when compared to other years. This team is capable of scoring at least 3 goals a game when they're firing on all cylinders. And when Lu locks it down, it should equal more wins. I would say our second line is no worse than it has been in 2 of those previous years. This has been a weakness for this team for awhile. Only when we had Sundin and Demitra did we have something that resembled a really good second line. We were the top team in the league with Booth on our second line, and he didn't exactly light it up. In comparison, Santorelli is on pace to surpass Booth's PPG pace that year. And also as I pointed out, this is all while producing nothing on the powerplay. If that gets going, which there's no reason why it can't, then that's our difference maker. A strong powerplay has always been the difference maker for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adniel_g Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Well put. I wouldn't start planning the parade, but its not all doom and gloom. Something's I've liked so far, somethings a bit more concerned about. Like: -different looks (line combos. Sedins on pk) -new coach rewarding different players based on merit (Garrison, and my boy Tanev!) -increased ice time for key players -new additions look good (Santo, Richardson, Stanton Concern: -PP. I reckon it'll improve, but will it become a top-end unit, again? doubtful -lack of PP opportunities...seriously -lack of primary scoring outside the Sedins (Kesler. Im looking at you) Aren't parades banned in Vancouver after certain past events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Higgins and Hansen are on our 2nd line when we don't make the playoffs Higgins and Hansen are on our 3rd line when we make the playoffs and compete Higgins and Hansen are on our 4th line when we win the Stanley Cup I disagree we would have a great shot at a cup with Higgins/kess/Hansen as our third line if we somehow found a second line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 ...I pointed out in the post that we only beat cellar dwellers in the first 10 games in two of our best seasons. The point is this team always starts slow and has trouble with the good teams early on... The thing is that in recent years we've pretty well wrapped up our division, and therefore a playoff spot, by Christmas and we've really not had to be concerned about this teams' play in the first couple of months of any season. If they continue at this .500 pace over the next few weeks, this year it could mean missing the playoffs altogether. Elliotte Friedman mentioned an interesting stat in an article he wrote today: http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2013/10/30-thoughts-playoff-chase-begins-early-in-nhl.html The part I found most surprising is that just three of 32 NHL teams at least four points out of a playoff spot on Nov. 1 recovered to make the playoffs from 2005-06 to 2011-12. Friedman goes on to say "Generally, working yourself into a panic about what your team does in the first 10 games is a bad idea. But what really stands out about this particular season is how many teams are in danger of falling so far behind." As of today, the Canucks are in 9th spot in the conference and only a couple of points outside of the playoffs. Yet our schedule hasn't even begun to get tough yet. Between now and the end of the month we play the Islanders, Devils, Blues, Caps and Red Wings. But then you only need to look at our November games and it gets downright scary. Starting November 2, the first half of November sees us play the Leafs, Coyotes, Sharks twice, Ducks and Kings. All very difficult games. It sounds weird to say, but how this team plays over the next 3 to 4 weeks could very well determine whether we make the playoffs or not. Losing points to teams like Columbus at this point in the season in the past meant nothing. This year it could determine our playoff fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Damn, Hank is consistent! And people say we shouldn't re-sign the Sedins. Last time their contract was up there were quite a few here saying, "if they want more than $4m let them walk". So many here are completely unrealistic about players open market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMR Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Joining the party late, but great perspective. I think people need to understand that it is 10 games in and they are all finding there legs under Torts. I think once they have bought in and Torts sees who does what and what people can handle, they will all stabilize. I am not worried yet and think we will only get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 This is a dud year. Next year we will be bringing in a lot of younger guys (ie, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Corrado, etc) and we will be forced to make moves. We will have to move a defenseman because with the emergence of Stanton we are now overcrowded with young defensemen looking to jump up. We will have to move forwards to make room for our younger forwards. Guys like Booth, Higgins, Schroeder, etc need to really impress if they don't want to be moved. Guys like Santorelli will stay. This year we find out which of our core stays and which of our core goes. I think this is right: a dud year compared to the recent past, but we still make the playoffs. Next year there won't be the cap crunch that hit everyone this year, and made it hard to move people. Hopefully there will be a chance to make honest hockey trades again, as opposed to just managing the cap. If so, we are in a position to move assets and fill holes. I'm not freaking out about the team and basically agree with DeNiro, but I do think there is a lack of identity to our game now as compared to 2010-11. We need a fourth line, and a little less reliance on tweeners "playing up and down the lineup". But a Stanton, Santorelli and Richardson were great pickups, Tanev, Garrison, and arguably Edler are getting better, and Hank is still in his prime. If we can move a few declining players out, pick up a top 6 or top 3 forward, the rest we can take care of internally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril Sneer Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I don't even look at the standings until after X-mas. so much will change that it isn't worth my time to care right now. Ill Just drink beer, eat Doritos and leak in the 2nd intermission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 So we're 10 games in now, which some coaches say is enough of a sample size to kind of see what type of team you have. After a lackluster effort against an average team today, it's easy for us to start hitting the panic button and thinking this team isn't good enough. So it's important to step back and look at the bigger picture sometimes. The best way to do that is through a comparison of where we're at compared to previous years at the 10 game mark. I'll use the 09/10, 10/11, and 11/12 seasons since last season started in January and isn't as comparable. 2009-2010 Record: 5-5-0 - 10PTS (Losses to Calgary x2, Colorado, Edmonton, and Columbus) GF: 28 GA: 28 Henrik Sedin: 11PTS Daniel Sedin: 3PTS (injured) 2010-2011 Record : 5-3-2 - 12PTS (Losses to LA and Chicago (shootout), LA, Anaheim, Minni) GF: 27 GA: 22GA Henrik Sedin: 12PTS Daniel Sedin: 12PTS 2011-2012 Record 4-5-1 - 9PTS (Losses to Philly, Detroit, New York, St.Louis, Edmonton, Pitts (shootout)) GF: 24 GA: 28 Henrik Sedin: 11PTS Daniel Sedin: 12PTS 2013-2014 Record: 5-4-1 - 11PTS (Losses to San Jose x2, Montreal, Columbus, Pitts (shootout)) GF: 27 GA: 28 Henrik Sedin: 12PTS Daniel Sedin: 8PTS The Rundown: So basically what this shows is that this team is about as consistent as the Sedins production. -They have managed to get as many points as their 3 best seasons averaged. -They have 1 less point than their best season ever, and 2 more points than their second best season ever. -They have 1 more goal for than their best 3 seasons average. Same amount of goals as our best offensive season ever. -They have 2 more goals against than their best 3 seasons average. Same amount as 2 of their best seasons including their second President's trophy season. - They have lost to 4 playoff teams so far compared to 5 in 2010-2011 and 4 in 2011-2012. In 2009-2010 all losses in the first 10 games were to non playoff teams. -Henrik Sedin averaged 11.5 PTS in his first 10 games during the teams 3 best seasons. He is above that average with 12, 1 point better than his best season ever. -Daniel Sedin has averaged 12 PTS in his first 10 games during the two best seasons he wasn't injured. He now has 4 less than that average. This is all despite having regulars like Edler and Burrows out of the lineup. And now having who was supposed to be our third line center injured again. I would say we're doing just fine in comparison. People say that we've lost alot of offense, yet the numbers show we're right there with our best seasons. And these numbers are all with a bottom placed powerplay. That means the majority of our goals have been scored 5-on-5, which is a huge departure from those past seasons. Guys like Garrison are a big difference maker so far, stepping up and replacing the void that Ehrhoff left in those previous seasons. Santorelli stepping up and filling the hole that Raymond left. And Richardson stepping up and filling the hole that Lappy left. We also have never had a D score this many points to start a season, nor have we had a number 1 ranked PK this early on. Scoring by committee seems to be the theme of this team this year. But you know there's alot more for this team to give. We've seen what a full 60 minute effort can produce so far this season, which was a rare occurance in the past couple years. I don't know about you, but I like what I've seen so far. There's been a couple disappointing games where we let the game slip away, but no more than in some of our best seasons. It looks to me like Torts has really gotten this team to buy into his game plan, and it should only get better as time goes by. Hopefully this relaxes some of those people worrying about the state of the team right now. I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I honestly think that Daniel has not been the same player since his head injury. He's scored only 14 goals in the past 60 games played. Last year we had, arguably, the best goal tending tandem in hockey, not any more. Kesler's production has also dropped off precipitously. Our power pay is a power outage. We've loaded up our top line and it still doesn't dominate. The good news is that Torts has the team playing hard, and they looked good against a stacked Pittsburgh team. In past years, I thought we were "one third-line centre away" or "one Norris-calibre D-man away" from competing for the cup. Now, I think we are a middle of the pack team that can be entertaining but poses little threat to LA, San Jose, Chicago or St. Louis in the West or to Boston, Detroit or Pittsburgh in the East. We have no snipers, little secondary scoring, let in way too many goals, are not as strong down the middle as many think, and haven't really had a second line for years. Sorry to be negative and I'd love to be wrong, but anyone planning the parade route is a bit premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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