Papayas Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 man... every year i feel like reading teh same thing from the same group of people.. All they did is to change the name of the player they complain about... Last season it was Garrison and Elder. Before that it was 2 seasons of Bieksa. O let's not forget the Burrows thread....Every freaking year they have to pick on someone to complain about.......this is getting really tiring... it's 10 games into the season. It is still Oct right now. Let our player to find their games and support them instead of being a whiny little bitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoted Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 man... every year i feel like reading teh same thing from the same group of people.. All they did is to change the name of the player they complain about... Last season it was Garrison and Elder. Before that it was 2 seasons of Bieksa. O let's not forget the Burrows thread....Every freaking year they have to pick on someone to complain about.......this is getting really tiring... it's 10 games into the season. It is still Oct right now. Let our player to find their games and support them instead of being a whiny little bitch Except it's not really just 10 games in is it? It's a lot of last season, part of the season before, 2 first-round playoff exits etc. I'd be for more relaxed about 10 games in if the players in question performed well last year, regular season and playoffs. There's a bigger picture over the last couple years I think that factors into people's nervousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If we were to trade Ryan, it would have to be to Detroit, Philly or Columbus. No way he stays in the Western Conference without major overpayment. I think he waives for those 3 teams if the situation is right. Trading him right now would yield about 1/2 his real trade value. Gillis would need to be patient and wait for him to be up to speed. I would trade him but it would be for a substantial return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 You sure love that NTC disclaimer. All that does is give Kesler a say in where he might go. If the team decides to move him he won't want to stay. All this is CDC angst anyway as it is way to early to start worrying about Kesler. He has been in position to score and the pucks aren't going in yet. I am sure they will. My impression of Kesler is that he puts way more pressure on himself than others do. It also gives him a say in not going anywhere at all. Something you, like many others, completely ignore. Players have refused to waive their ntc's. Another tidbit completely ignored is MG's having said players with ntc's have earned them and he won't ask them to waive it. Which means the only way a player with a full ntc gets moved is if he requests a move himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_The_Schneid! Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Wait till trade deadline if we"re looking like we won't make a deep run in the playoffs trade him for a 1st round pick and a prospect. He would be extremely valuable to a team trying to win the cup and a lot of teams would be extremely interested. He would waive to be on a a team making a cup run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 It's only been 10 games in, Relax. It's more than 10 games in. The concerns around Kesler have been brewing for a while now. He is the reason the Canucks second line is the helicopter line. You can blame his wingers but he has chewed up and spit out everyone that has played with him. There is no denying his playing skills. However, at some point, it's time to stop blaming his wingers and blaming him. On top of his difficulty to play with, he gets hurt and the most inopportune times which is just bad luck but durability is massive trait to have these days. MG needs to take a page from Wally Buono and the Lions. The Lions are good at identifying when it's time to move players along. Right now is the prime time to bring in a newer, younger center to play less stressful minutes behind the Sedins and who would eventually replace the Sedins when their careers are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 NTC and they committed to him long term for a reason. He's part of the core. Him being traded is as likely as the Sedins being traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Secret Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If I'm being completely honest I have to say Kesler is overrated. BUT I won't say trade him ( unless we're in a rebuild) because he's a big part of this core and can still produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Except it's not really just 10 games in is it? It's a lot of last season, part of the season before, 2 first-round playoff exits etc. I'd be for more relaxed about 10 games in if the players in question performed well last year, regular season and playoffs. There's a bigger picture over the last couple years I think that factors into people's nervousness. 13 points in 17 games last season while coming off a lengthy recovery time isn't exactly awful. I wouldn't call two points in 4 playoff games awful either. Although a four game window isn't really enough to pass a real judgement on any one player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JelloIce Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 One thing you're gonna have to consider about the team you're a fan of is that Canucks management is about trust in this MG era. Whether you want to lean that towards our long-term intact core or the failure to make a "big" move is up to you. MG isn't Paul Holmgren and as far as the current state of the Flyers is concerned, that's probably a good thing. That's one thing you should face as a fan is that MG isn't going to turn his back on any of his players without giving them a good hard look. Players aren't gonna play well without a certain comfort level about where they are. Seriously, MG probably knew that Raymond wouldn't be coming back the very moment Raymond got injured...yet he let him play out his contract instead of moving for some stingier value. So unfortunately with Kes' injuries and prior proven upside, I speculate that it would take 2 seasons of bottom weed production for MG to consider moving him. At which point, he wouldn't move him for a whole lot, and the cycle continues. MG's best bet at making a cup-winning team would've been to blow it up at the very start and then whittle down. But now he's trying to make gold out of scraps, and it'll be like that until this window closes. MG has his code, especially since being a player agent. Now as a GM, that has its benefits and faults and opinions are gonna differ. Lots of people seem to grow up missing the fact that life isn't as simple as a two-sided coin of good or bad. (aka the trade players after 1 preseason game-type folks.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Kesler + Raymond + Ballard + 1st for Zetterberg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeburn Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 One word: Luongo. I'll see you a word and raise you a noun: Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeburn Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (preface: I do not "like" Kesler, never have, don't expect I ever will, but have always respected the asset Kesler represents to the team) Really starting wonder if the Canucks upper management are attempting to maximize Kesler for a pending trade at some point before the deadline (see Hodgson, Schneider, mostly every other player Gillis seems to ship out)... Truly, that's hard to imagine. I'm also not a fan of Gillis and am on record around town questioning his bus tossing commentary of Hodgson post that trade. But no matter how the Hodgson thing went down, I'm not seeing a conspiracy by Gillis and coaching staff to maximize, package and ship players. Whatever Gillis claimed about Hodgson after the fact, Scheider was played because he's an NHL starter, and I can't think of any other player who was built up pre a dumping so who else do you include in your list of "mostly every other player Gillis seems to ship out"? - They've brought in a number of wingers (Burrows, Booth, Higgins to name a few) and none have been able to get him going, and he's not the pass first center to help his wingers either - They don't put him in the 3C role (when they tried with Hodgson) and not skilled enough for 1C and can't produce at 2C - Has endured constant injuries (due to play style and at times no fault of his own) - Unable to hit the 40 goal mark again (one hit wonder) - Aging and unable to hit 'elite' status with guys like Kane, Toews, Datysuk's of the game - Bringing in Torts still hasn't helped him; Torts has given him even more increased ice time and and PP time and even time with the Sedins (which is a bust trial run IMO) - For the amount of years Sedins have been in the lineup, 2nd line offense or production has been a constant issue (except for when the Sedins themselves were behind Bertuzzi/Naslund in their prime) - They also want to get younger and have players in the works to phase him out (Horvat for 2C/3C, Gaunce for 3C, Shinkaruk for 2nd line winger) Yep, on all fronts. In my opinion, anyhow. Could the Canucks package Kesler out with a unfriendly cap contract like Booth, and a rookie (maybe Gaunce if they don't see him as a solution long term or Tanev if Corrado can fill his role) and hit the re-tool button for totally new look 2nd line? Maybe NYI, Philly could be trade partners? Sure, I mean, in theory every GM strategizes how to maximize value of current assets to pull upgrade moves. But still, just can't see a conspiracy going on to ship Kesler out specifically. Absolutey not. If anything move him to the wing and bring in another center. Im sorry but booth and higgins struggles aren't keslers fault. Yep, Kesler has gone through too many winger options for too many years for anyone to pretend that his offensive production for long stretches can simply be answered by faulting his wingers. I think Kesler is still one of the best shutdown forwards in the NHL. Ill agree to that he's having a slow start but to write him off after 10 games? I think that we're jumping ship a little too quickly here and the Canucks would be making the wrong choice shipping off Kesler. He may not produce 70 points and 41 goals again. but I don't think that 50 points and a 20 goal season is out of the question. I'm not convinced Kesler still is one of the "best shutdown forwards" in the NHL, but I'd be glad to see him returned to that role to see if he could be! I'd bet that if the royal they mgmt and royal we fans stopped trying to push the guy into being an offensive first player, he wouldn't right now be leading all Canucks with the worst +/- and have only 4 points to show for his 1st line time and opportunity. Instead, we'd probably have seen fewer goals against and his own production might possibly be substantially higher (odd how it happens, when a guy is hard to play offensively against, the opponents start giving up offensive chances themselves ). ...the game isn't only about scoring goals, it is also about preventing them and Kesler does that in spades when shutting down specific players. Precisely. And if Kesler was allowed/pushed (whatever the right word) into resuming that shut down role in which he excelled, it just wouldn't be surprising if he also happened to put more points up. I feel Kesler can be extremely valuable, but not in the role he has been cast the last couple years.... Yep. I understand being keen to experiment with the guy after his impressive offensive runs while filling the shut-down role, but it'd be nice if the powers-that-be could give it a rest already, let the experiment go, and plug Kesler into the role that makes him the best asset he can be for the team. (ending sidenote: I was also never an AV fan, very much disliked him as a coach no matter how much I liked him in person, but one coaching style he seemed to employ at least at the onset to his tenure which worked - giving guys roles. It worked, it works. Not everyone on a team can be the elite sniper or the elite playmaker, etc... Absolutely nuttin' wrong with a guy who is an elite shut down checker....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Algur Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If you look beyon the points Kesler is actually having a decent start to the season. He leads all Canucks in takeaways and shoots, has a good face off percentage and is blocking shots. He just needs to get his shoots through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 13 points in 17 games last season while coming off a lengthy recovery time isn't exactly awful. I wouldn't call two points in 4 playoff games awful either. Although a four game window isn't really enough to pass a real judgement on any one player. Exactly, he was on pace for 62-63 points last season with the PP being complete garbage. In his Selke year he only had 73 points... Not that big of a difference, especially when you factor in how good our PP was that year. Kesler is not doing anywhere near as bad as a lot of people on this forum like to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Torts has said that Kesler is doing all the right things other than put up points. His production will come. No need to get all panic-y because he is off to a slow start in one regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Claude Giroux - 8Games - 0G 3A Kesler for Giroux and a 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kumquats Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 http://canucks.nhl.com/club/depthchart.htm?dcid=23 He's so out he's on the top line. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 It's pretty sad, that he's given every opportunity to succeed, yet he still can't produced at even strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16ToWin Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I think Kesler is still one of the best shutdown forwards in the NHL. Ill agree to that he's having a slow start but to write him off after 10 games? I think that we're jumping ship a little too quickly here and the Canucks would be making the wrong choice shipping off Kesler. He may not produce 70 points and 41 goals again. but I don't think that 50 points and a 20 goal season is out of the question. While I do agree, and will,IMO, continue. Is your Best shutdown guy, untilized as you #2c? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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