What about Burrows?

[RUPERTKBD]

The 'move Burrow or not' issue is seperate from my point. Holding back on Burrows to let him have a rebound year is not a bad idea if there is no good deal to be had.

I was pointing out the blind faith some delusional fans still seem to have that the Sedins, either with Burrows or someone else, can carry this team anywhere. It's over. There is no more Lui, no more Schneider, the Sedins are a year older. It's all about the rebuild now.

Yes. I agree. My only problem with moving Burrows (or any player, for that matter) is that we won't get value for him.

OTOH, we're doing the right thing with Kesler. His value right now is as high as it's likely to ever be. Burrows, Schroeder, Hansen? Not so much....

[RWMc1]

I like Burrows, but I don't like the idea of him with the Sedins all season long. When we play big bodied teams who battle for every inch, Burrows size becomes an issue. I would like to see him spend more time on the 2nd and/or 3rd lines. Kassian and Jensen should split most of the time with the Sedins.

[Benchsplinters]

The 'move Burrow or not' issue is seperate from my point. Holding back on Burrows to let him have a rebound year is not a bad idea if there is no good deal to be had.

I was pointing out the blind faith some delusional fans still seem to have that the Sedins, either with Burrows or someone else, can carry this team anywhere. It's over. There is no more Lui, no more Schneider, the Sedins are a year older. It's all about the rebuild now.

Fans can be as discontented or as opinionated as they want.

However, Linden is not about to trade the twins. I also believe that should they be asked to waive their N/M contract clause, they will quietly express their intentions to retire. Their numbers will hang in GM Place for certain.

Lui and Schneider could not get it done either. Really what is the correlation between Lui, Schneider and the twins and Burrows.

There may be a rebuild in the works but I also believe fans are not delusional if they choose to use reality in their perception of how well the team will do next season. Who is actually debating other than you, if the Canucks will be a top contender. "It's over". Is that not being a fatalist on your part, maybe even a might delusional?

In essence is it your plan to trade all the core away and rebuild from scratch? That will not be done. What deals are out there in your opinion? To answer your comment, yes we are probably in a rebuild mode but can it not be done by also staying competitive for us the fans. Yes it can. That is not delusional my friend and it is not being a fatalist either.

[Mathew Barzal]

If we are trying to make the playoffs this year (I'm hoping that we're tanking), then we should get rid of him. He's a 3rd liner at this point making $4m+. Most successful teams use younger players to fill out the 2nd and 3rd lines. Burrows really doesn't fit in anywhere. Sure, he had injuries and a bad coach, but he's not getting any younger (33 years old).

If we're tanking = keep him

I we're trying to make the playoffs = get rid of him

Lol, I feel like the exact opposite. If we're making the playoffs I'd like to keep the clutchest playoff performer from this generation of Canucks on the squad. On the other hand, if we're tanking I think Jensen should have his spot.

[Gross-Misconduct]

Fans can be as discontented or as opinionated as they want.

However, Linden is not about to trade the twins. I also believe that should they be asked to waive their N/M contract clause, they will quietly express their intentions to retire. Their numbers will hang in GM Place for certain.

Lui and Schneider could not get it done either. There may be a rebuild in the works but I also believe fans are not delusional if they choose to use reality in their perception of where the team will be next season. Who is actually debating other than you, if the Canucks will win the SC next year?

In essence is it your plan to trade all the core away and rebuild from scratch? That will not be done, so who is really being delusional. What deals are out there in your opinion. To answer your comment, yes we are probably in a rebuild mode but can it not be done by also staying competitive for us the fans. Yes it can. That is not delusional my friend.

Now who's debating themselves? When did I ever say anything like that?

I never said trade the Sedins. I said the days of them carrying this team anywhere are over. Done. Gone. And yes, if you believe the Sedins will take this team anywhere, you are delusional.

And it's not the Sedin's fault. Trust me, I'm a huge Sedin fan. 2 of the best players to ever put on Canuck unis. But they can't carry this team anymore. Not enough peices around them to go anywhere. Yes, Lui and schneider could not get it done. Do you believe now that our chances have increased with Laak and Markstrom? Please dont say yes.

Of course fans can be opinionated. Thats what we do. You seem to be interperting my point that the Sedin's are no longer the dominate players they once were with trade the Sedins, they suck. It's just reality. They are older now. You have to accpet that and move forward. Like I'm sure Benning and Linden are.

[24K PureCool]

Burrows is more of a player that is important to us and not so much to other teams. Besides, after this horrendous season, his trade value is at a all time low and probably won't fetch us much. Better to keep him then trying to trade him.

[Benchsplinters]

Now who's debating themselves? When did I ever say anything like that?

I never said trade the Sedins. I said the days of them carrying this team anywhere are over. Done. Gone. And yes, if you believe the Sedins will take this team anywhere, you are delusional.

And it's not the Sedin's fault. Trust me, I'm a huge Sedin fan. 2 of the best players to ever put on Canuck unis. But they can't carry this team anymore. Not enough peices around them to go anywhere. Yes, Lui and schneider could not get it done. Do you believe now that our chances have increased with Laak and Markstrom? Please dont say yes.

Of course fans can be opinionated. Thats what we do. You seem to be interperting my point that the Sedin's are no longer the dominate players they once were with trade the Sedins, they suck. It's just reality. They are older now. You have to accpet that and move forward. Like I'm sure Benning and Linden are.

The question mark behind that statement means that I am asking you the question. I did not suggest you implied that. I also agreed that the team was at a level of rebuild. Your statement - it's over is fatalist and I don't meant to slight you by saying that.

Glad to hear you are still a Sedin fan. I still say they can be a big part of any rebuild as well. The next season will be the tell all don't you agree?

[DrChill]

This is the problem right here. Some fans just won't accept that the window has closed.

Let's say you're right and Burrows has a rebound year. You think Burrows and the Sedins can carry this team anywhere in the playoffs if they even make the playoffs? Delusional if you believe that.

I don't think they are a cup favorite, could they get on a roll and get deep in playoffs? Sure anyone who makes the playoffs has that chance.

Realistically we are retooling for 2-3 years (hopefully). Is Burrows the kind of Veteran you want around young players? Yes, guy that fought his way to the NHL, great work ethic, every shift he works.

I don't think management would trade him unless he asked out. Personal opinion. His value is low anyways. If he rebounds next year having an offseason to get healthy and train. We have youth that comes in and has chemistry with Sedins , next offseason or trade deadline you might look at it but now? No. Value isn't there.

[zombieksa]

One of the biggest arguments I see people making are that he is a 3rd liner and that he takes up too much ice time from younger players.

I'll leave you with these few pointers.

- The vast majority of his points are at even strength, in fact I think he is our highest scoring forward at even strength for the last 5 seasons, if not top 3.

- He gets little to no power play time so the argument that he gets all the time with the Sedins is false as they play 2-4 minutes of PP time a game. That right there is 2-4 minutes other forwards are playing with the twins.

- He has 18 shorthanded goals and last time I checked, until this season, the twins have rarely been used on the PK. Thus another 2 minutes a game where he is playing without the support of the twins and holding his own.

He is not a "3rd liner" he is a very good 2nd liner who found great chemistry with our two franchise players but can hold his own when not playing with them and excels on the PK.

I wouldn't trade that for a second. He and Bieksa are loved in that locker room and both with play out there current contracts here at the very least.

[Gross-Misconduct]

The question mark behind that statement means that I am asking you the question. I did not suggest you implied that. I also agreed that the team was at a level of rebuild. Your statement - it's over is fatalist and I don't meant to slight you by saying that.

Glad to hear you are still a Sedin fan. I still say they can be a big part of any rebuild as well. The next season will be the tell all don't you agree?

I'll always be a Sedin fan. But Gillis f'd up and made it near impossible to have a realistic Cup run with a lot of his moves.

The Sedins are going to be asked to provide 1st line points once again and unless they catch some magic in a winger (which they have in the past of course) they won't be able to sustain that level throughout the season and into a deep playoff run. Without a legitmate scoring threat from the Canucks 2nd and 3rd lines, it's too easy for teams to hone in on shutting down the Sedins.

Asking this core of players to have a big season is not realistic cause we've seen the struggles over the last few seasons. And now you can add no Lui or Schneider into the mix. So, if the team is gonna get the younger players to take on bigger roles this season, which I think they should, then asking them to come together instantly and have a great year and a deep playoff run with a new head coach thrown in as well is asking a bit much. Wouldn't you agree?

[5Fivehole0]

With Kesler on the way out I can't believe we have so many people clamouring for Burrows to be traded.

If you trade Kesler and Burrows who is going to kill our penalties.?? Burr does a hell. Of a lot more than score 25gs

He kills penalties, is an agitator(one of the best), he plays well defensively, he scores in the shoot outs, and finally he just plays hard.

1 bad year filled with injuries does not equate to a bad player. He was unlucky... He got robbed constantly. It's not like he wasn't generating chances... And when his bad luck ran out, he was the hottest player on the Canucks for a time.

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

I'll always be a Sedin fan. But Gillis f'd up and made it near impossible to have a realistic Cup run with a lot of his moves.

The Sedins are going to be asked to provide 1st line points once again and unless they catch some magic in a winger (which they have in the past of course) they won't be able to sustain that level throughout the season and into a deep playoff run. Without a legitmate scoring threat from the Canucks 2nd and 3rd lines, it's too easy for teams to hone in on shutting down the Sedins.

Asking this core of players to have a big season is not realistic cause we've seen the struggles over the last few seasons. And now you can add no Lui or Schneider into the mix. So, if the team is gonna get the younger players to take on bigger roles this season, which I think they should, then asking them to come together instantly and have a great year and a deep playoff run with a new head coach thrown in as well is asking a bit much. Wouldn't you agree?

I could not agree more. This season will be an even bigger test than last year. With the development of young up n comers and the core wanting and needing to return to the form they are used too, this could be another below average year. I am resigned to the fact we will not be seriously competitive for another 3 years.

[William_Clarkson]

It's not like the Canucks need the cap space, it'd only be worth while if they wanted to put more younger guys in the lineup, but I think guys like Hansen will be moved first.

Though, I think that Kassian & Jensen should be given top 6 time next year, one of them on the Sedins' right wing.

[DrChill]

One of the biggest arguments I see people making are that he is a 3rd liner and that he takes up too much ice time from younger players.

I'll leave you with these few pointers.

- The vast majority of his points are at even strength, in fact I think he is our highest scoring forward at even strength for the last 5 seasons, if not top 3.

- He gets little to no power play time so the argument that he gets all the time with the Sedins is false as they play 2-4 minutes of PP time a game. That right there is 2-4 minutes other forwards are playing with the twins.

- He has 18 shorthanded goals and last time I checked, until this season, the twins have rarely been used on the PK. Thus another 2 minutes a game where he is playing without the support of the twins and holding his own.

He is not a "3rd liner" he is a very good 2nd liner who found great chemistry with our two franchise players but can hold his own when not playing with them and excels on the PK.

I wouldn't trade that for a second. He and Bieksa are loved in that locker room and both with play out there current contracts here at the very least.

Thank you. Well said.

[cowboy644]

Actually Canuck fan since 72.posted under another name way back.Couldn't remember all login and such.Started a new account.To reply,you and a lot of people have the Mike Gillis syndrome..We need change but not this guy or this guy or that guy.Whats left to trade.Slugs and players know one wants.Whats left.Burrows another year older and an upcoming year we have know idea how he is going to perform.We have seen diminishing numbers and a deminishing asset.The worst player on our team?.Not by a long shot but exactly when was the last time the canucks had a snow balls chance in hell of moving up to number one.Oh yah.Never.Turning Burrows and our 6th overall and some other pieces into Reinhart,a guy who by all accounts will end up a first line quality center.One of those rare guys that more than likely be stepping into the league at 18.I would do that in a heart beat.I'm as big of fan of Burrows as anyone but I am so ready to move who ever off this roster to get rid of the stale stench we had to put up with last year.Give me Reinhart over everyone on this team including the twins.Watching a young player bring some excitement would be a refreshing change.God I miss Trev when he came in and we all know about Pavel.For those that want the Gillis route,stay the course and don't give up anything somebody might want,there is no coming back later and complaining about the play of those they wanted to stay.

[Nino]

12.8 S%

24 GW goals

More SH goals than PP goals

+122

Only 1 season playing less than 85% of games that season.

4 time 25 goal scorer.

Averages about 2 minutes on the PK per game.

Consistently a top Corsi and Fenwick player, and had an unheard of season in terms of injury, PDO and S% .

Burrows ain't going anywhere.

^^^^

This.

I don't get the negativity towards bur, he's the workhouse of the team never gives up and has the talent to go with it. Sure he had a bad year coming off an injury but who on the nucks didn't have a bad year.

[Nino]

I like Burrows, but I don't like the idea of him with the Sedins all season long. When we play big bodied teams who battle for every inch, Burrows size becomes an issue. I would like to see him spend more time on the 2nd and/or 3rd lines. Kassian and Jensen should split most of the time with the Sedins.

Bur plays bigger then kass and Jensen combined. He's also more willing to go to the dirty areas and battle for the puck then anyone on the team, this is why he played well with the twins he goes to the hard area retrieves pucks and can get to the net for the finish. Zack was never willing to go to the hard areas so he never played well with the twins.

[ShakyWalton]

A solid 3rd line winger..but expendable.

NTCs make things so inexcusably tough

[cowboy644]

Actually Deb,a Canucks fan since 72.Post count means I'm wrong?There are just to many Mike Gillis mentality people on this site.Don't trade him or him or him but try to make a deal with a slug on the team.I am a big Burrows fan.It's why I think he is value in a trade.Even if Hansen returns to form,if there's no place for him if we bring up some young players.I would package them and our 6th.When was the last time the canucks had a ligitimate chance at the first over all since they lost a coin toss..Never.Do the canucks need a player that will decline with each year and won't be tradeable in a couple years or trade him and go after Reinhart (or Ekblad as some want though this team needs a first line center more than they need D at this point).The kid will probably make the jump straight in because he is to young for the AHL and juniors will be a waste.In Florida he would definitely play right away.When was the last time we as fans got to be excited about a drafted player that could play as soon as they were drafted.Trev and Pavel maybe.I don't know about the rest of you but I'm ready to be excited again when I'm watching the Canucks.Burrows and the twins ain't going to do it.

[ShakyWalton]

Bur plays bigger then kass and Jensen combined. He's also more willing to go to the dirty areas and battle for the puck then anyone on the team, this is why he played well with the twins he goes to the hard area retrieves pucks and can get to the net for the finish. Zack was never willing to go to the hard areas so he never played well with the twins.

How much of a chance did he get?

A few games here and there..certainly didnt get it with Torts and with AV he scored about 5-6 goals in as many games and was quickly removed...I also think Zack didnt know how to go to the hard areas,,he is a work in progress for sure,,and was getting it at the seasons end..this is about Burrows,, not another bash Kassian thread.