(Proposal) Miller to the Kings

[canuckistani]

A few things:

 

1. I think what has to be a 'given', is that a goalie will always come back with Miller. It has to, in all scenarios except one: where we are dead in the water, dead, dead last in rankings (or thereabouts) near the trade deadline. Or else, at no point does JB think its worth 'Markstrom + nobody' as a duo. Who in our system is going to take us through the rest of the season as Markstrom's back-up at the moment, playing 20-30 games this year ? Garteig & Demko are so not ready right now.  Bachman is not good enough to shoulder 20-30 games this year. 

2. That being said, there may be a window to trade Miller, sometime around Christmas to New Years, if other major team's goalies struggle. For example, a team like Minnesota, may do a Kuemper + 1st/2nd +4th round for Miller type of deals. And that would be worth it, assuming nothing goes wrong.

It is a lot more realistic to see Miller's trade value as  "returning backup level goalie + 1st round/couple of mid-late rounders", from teams that have cap space to absorb the Miller hit. Even if we hold back salary (which, I don't think we can, if its an expiring contract, can we ?!) 

 

3.Goalies are rarely dealt and dealt efficiently in the league. There is so much chance to goalie stuff, that teams don't often make a deal just because the risk factor is too high. All it takes, for example, is Markstrom to get a nasty bout of cold and your window to trade Miller disappears. JB is *NOT* going to take a matchstick to this season, in hopes of a phoenix rising form the ashes for the season after. 

 

So lets just sit back and watch. Miller may get us a few nifty pieces. Or Miller may get us zilch. Either way, its not a wrong decision and either way, the situation is understandable.

 

[BCNeil]

A Miller trade to LA or now Arizona too, would have horrible optics.

 

It's basically....hey your starter is hurt...take ours to make sure you make the playoffs..

At the expense of our season.

[Spitfire_Spiky]

42 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

A few things:

 

1. I think what has to be a 'given', is that a goalie will always come back with Miller. It has to, in all scenarios except one: where we are dead in the water, dead, dead last in rankings (or thereabouts) near the trade deadline. Or else, at no point does JB think its worth 'Markstrom + nobody' as a duo. Who in our system is going to take us through the rest of the season as Markstrom's back-up at the moment, playing 20-30 games this year ? Garteig & Demko are so not ready right now.  Bachman is not good enough to shoulder 20-30 games this year. 

2. That being said, there may be a window to trade Miller, sometime around Christmas to New Years, if other major team's goalies struggle. For example, a team like Minnesota, may do a Kuemper + 1st/2nd +4th round for Miller type of deals. And that would be worth it, assuming nothing goes wrong.

It is a lot more realistic to see Miller's trade value as  "returning backup level goalie + 1st round/couple of mid-late rounders", from teams that have cap space to absorb the Miller hit. Even if we hold back salary (which, I don't think we can, if its an expiring contract, can we ?!) 

 

3.Goalies are rarely dealt and dealt efficiently in the league. There is so much chance to goalie stuff, that teams don't often make a deal just because the risk factor is too high. All it takes, for example, is Markstrom to get a nasty bout of cold and your window to trade Miller disappears. JB is *NOT* going to take a matchstick to this season, in hopes of a phoenix rising form the ashes for the season after. 

 

So lets just sit back and watch. Miller may get us a few nifty pieces. Or Miller may get us zilch. Either way, its not a wrong decision and either way, the situation is understandable.

 

Come on who needs another goalie when we got Mat Hewitt backing up Markstrom. He looked great last night

 

That said, I gotta agree that now is not the time to trade Miller. His guidance and play will be crucial to Markstroms development and spreading the work load.

[dura_mater]

On ‎15‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 2:47 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

 

I'd rather him go for 3 million retained for one year and their 1st round pick as it's probably going to be a mid to late pick. It's only salary for this year. A 1st rounder for a rental is not unheard of.  (But I guess I'm asking too much...)

Nope, that's a pretty fair trade.

[Realtor Rod]

8 hours ago, BCNeil said:

A Miller trade to LA or now Arizona too, would have horrible optics.

 

It's basically....hey your starter is hurt...take ours to make sure you make the playoffs..

At the expense of our season.

Or, we have a young starter that we feel better with in net. Give us your farm and we will give you our old goalie.

[Dixon Ward]

The media is talking about Fleury to the Kings?  Miller makes way more sense. Fleury has 3 years left at 5.75 and is the same age as quick.  They are not looking to replace Quick long term with a worse goalie.  Also that would leave Pittsburgh with only Condon as Murray is unsigned.  It would also mean that next year they have 12.75 million dedicated to 2 starting goalies the same age.

 

We, on the other hand have a 26 year old who is ready to take the reigns.  He has tutored long enough.   If there is a good deal to be had, Miller should go before he gets injured and we can't even trade him at the deadline.  

 

Of course if LA is only offering crap then I am also happy to keep him.

[Dixon Ward]

17 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

The media is talking about Fleury to the Kings?  Miller makes way more sense. Fleury has 3 years left at 5.75 and is the same age as quick.  They are not looking to replace Quick long term with a worse goalie.  Also that would leave Pittsburgh with only Condon as Murray is unsigned.  It would also mean that next year they have 12.75 million dedicated to 2 starting goalies the same age.

 

We, on the other hand have a 26 year old who is ready to take the reigns.  He has tutored long enough.   If there is a good deal to be had, Miller should go before he gets injured and we can't even trade him at the deadline.  

 

Of course if LA is only offering crap then I am also happy to keep him.

I just read that Murray signed.  It still doesn't change things from LA's perspective.  I am sure the Penguins would love to dump Fleury's salary but LA makes no sense.

[Dixon Ward]

The more I think about it, the more I think they should do it.  Markstrom is not 21, he is 26.  He has tutored long enough.  

 

If Miller gets injured before the trade deadline we are hooped.  Unlike Hamhuis and Vrbata, JB needs to translate Miller into assets.

 

My proposal.  I think the Kings are built to win now and have no choice but to upgrade their starting goalie. 

 

Miller (3 mill retained, home is in LA and is not coming back next year) + Subban (would immediately become their best D prospect and 11th on our depth chart)+ 4th  

 

for 

 

1st round pick (will be from 10-20th but that is good value) + Zatkoff (career backup competes with Bachman for time in Vancouver)

 

Canucks have cap room for deadline deal if needed. Team doesn't change much.

 

[Crabcakes]

On 10/20/2016 at 8:23 AM, Dixon Ward said:

The media is talking about Fleury to the Kings?  Miller makes way more sense. Fleury has 3 years left at 5.75 and is the same age as quick.  They are not looking to replace Quick long term with a worse goalie.  Also that would leave Pittsburgh with only Condon as Murray is unsigned.  It would also mean that next year they have 12.75 million dedicated to 2 starting goalies the same age.

 

We, on the other hand have a 26 year old who is ready to take the reigns.  He has tutored long enough.   If there is a good deal to be had, Miller should go before he gets injured and we can't even trade him at the deadline.  

 

Of course if LA is only offering crap then I am also happy to keep him.

Lombardi wants to add a goalie on the cheap.  Right now, they have 1.7M of free cap space.  If they add a high priced goalie like Miller or Fleury, when Quick comes back in 3 or 4 months, they'll be in a bind cap wise.

 

The counter argument is that they need to trade salary back then.  But if you look at the Kings salary structure, they're top heavy.  You only have to go down 5 spots at forward and 4 on D to get to a point where moving one player won't be enough to cover the cap difference.  Obviously, moving a core piece defeats the purpose.

 

The Kings are in a real bind.  I wouldn't be surprised if Lombardi ends up doing nothing.

[Baggins]

On 10/21/2016 at 11:38 AM, Dixon Ward said:

The more I think about it, the more I think they should do it.  Markstrom is not 21, he is 26.  He has tutored long enough.  

 

If Miller gets injured before the trade deadline we are hooped.  Unlike Hamhuis and Vrbata, JB needs to translate Miller into assets.

 

My proposal.  I think the Kings are built to win now and have no choice but to upgrade their starting goalie. 

 

Miller (3 mill retained, home is in LA and is not coming back next year) + Subban (would immediately become their best D prospect and 11th on our depth chart)+ 4th  

 

for 

 

1st round pick (will be from 10-20th but that is good value) + Zatkoff (career backup competes with Bachman for time in Vancouver)

 

Canucks have cap room for deadline deal if needed. Team doesn't change much.

 

 

Does LA have some kind of magic wand that creates extra cap space?

[Dixon Ward]

9 hours ago, Baggins said:

 

Does LA have some kind of magic wand that creates extra cap space?

With the ltir for Quick they should get some cap relief.  I am clearly not the c apologist you are but I think they could make it work with some other players.

[Baggins]

23 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

With the ltir for Quick they should get some cap relief.  I am clearly not the c apologist you are but I think they could make it work with some other players.

LTIR doesn't create cap space. All players on IR and LTIR count towards the cap. LTIR only allows you to exceed the cap limit while the player is out injured. That's the only relief - exceeding the cap limit while the player is out injured. When the injured player returns you have get back below the cap limit. This is why people have been saying in all these "Miller to LA" proposals that when Quick returns LA would be screwed.

[Odjick_fan]

https://puckprose.com/2016/10/26/vancouver-canucks-g-ryan-miller-potential-trade-scenarios/

 

This article suggests a trade scenario with the Kings that could look like this with Canucks retaining 50% salary

 

Vancouver trades G Ryan Miller to Los Angeles in exchange for G Peter Budaj, F Dwight King, and 2017 1st round pick

[elvis15]

On 10/26/2016 at 3:22 PM, Baggins said:

LTIR doesn't create cap space. All players on IR and LTIR count towards the cap. LTIR only allows you to exceed the cap limit while the player is out injured. That's the only relief - exceeding the cap limit while the player is out injured. When the injured player returns you have get back below the cap limit. This is why people have been saying in all these "Miller to LA" proposals that when Quick returns LA would be screwed.

Bingo. It's not like they could magically flip Miller once Quick is back healthy and save them from being over the cap. Maybe they dump some other player, but as others have noted any players LA have with more cap that would help them are at the top end and useful to them. Maybe they could dump Brown on someone, but I doubt it.

[elvis15]

10 hours ago, Odjick_fan said:

https://puckprose.com/2016/10/26/vancouver-canucks-g-ryan-miller-potential-trade-scenarios/

 

This article suggests a trade scenario with the Kings that could look like this with Canucks retaining 50% salary

 

Vancouver trades G Ryan Miller to Los Angeles in exchange for G Peter Budaj, F Dwight King, and 2017 1st round pick

Budaj, ok, we'd prefer Zatkoff if we took a goalie back. We don't really have a need at all for King though, and I'm pretty sure the Kings don't want to throw in a 1st so I doubt they even agree to that.

[Camel Toe Drag]

The kings have one of the leagues best corsi, along with a seasoned backup in Budaj. I don't believe they're need for another "starting" goaltender is high on their priorities. I think they'll see this out, and try to keep all their pieces if they can.