Provincial Election Thread

[Tortorella's Rant]

Against Christy out of spite, really. 

[Misconduct16]

Now, since there is such an extremely large amount of hate against Christy Clark I would like to remind people that this is Canadian politics were talking about. In the US the leader of the party, be it governor or president, has a decent amount of power. In commonwealth style politics (Canada, US, Aus, etc.) the leader of the party does not realistically have any power. They are just the face (and in some cases it is a poor face to put forward) of the party. 

In face of this, please don't look at the individual leaders. Look at the party platforms, read into what they want to do with the province, and think about if what they propose to do is both something you see as a good thing for yourself and your neighbors, something that is in line with your values, and something that is economically feasible.

Also keep in mind that you are not voting for the leader of the party, you are voting for your local MLA. Some MLA's have amazing platforms for your immediate community that are entirely able to be successfully implemented. Be it a small thing in their plan like preventing a single family zoned neighborhood from being rezoned to 16 houses per acre (or the opposite if you are pro development) or a large thing like pushing the government for expanding transit funding to your area. A strong local representative can make a world of difference for your immediate community.

Basically, just suggesting to learn from the US election. Don't fall into the trap of allowing blackballing and negative media influence your vote. Research, interpret, discuss, vote.

[Warhippy]

8 minutes ago, Misconduct16 said:

Now, since there is such an extremely large amount of hate against Christy Clark I would like to remind people that this is Canadian politics were talking about. In the US the leader of the party, be it governor or president, has a decent amount of power. In commonwealth style politics (Canada, US, Aus, etc.) the leader of the party does not realistically have any power. They are just the face (and in some cases it is a poor face to put forward) of the party. 

In face of this, please don't look at the individual leaders. Look at the party platforms, read into what they want to do with the province, and think about if what they propose to do is both something you see as a good thing for yourself and your neighbors, something that is in line with your values, and something that is economically feasible.

Also keep in mind that you are not voting for the leader of the party, you are voting for your local MLA. Some MLA's have amazing platforms for your immediate community that are entirely able to be successfully implemented. Be it a small thing in their plan like preventing a single family zoned neighborhood from being rezoned to 16 houses per acre (or the opposite if you are pro development) or a large thing like pushing the government for expanding transit funding to your area. A strong local representative can make a world of difference for your immediate community.

Basically, just suggesting to learn from the US election. Don't fall into the trap of allowing blackballing and negative media influence your vote. Research, interpret, discuss, vote.

The issue with this is

 

We KNOW what the Liberals are doing with the province and we know their platform is literally just liesd.  Thus far 7 major promises of much needed spending that are set for "after the election" or "if we win the election" which is the same game they gave us last time and of the then 6 major promises they gave us, 1 has been accomplished.  Site C, which is still the most contentious and worthless.

 

We also know that their platform consists of promises to stop raising fees and to freeze increases in other spots, which was the same promise as before where Hydro went up over 35%, MSP went up, Mass transit etc etc etc.

 

At this point I'd rather the devil I don't know than the devil I do.  because the devil I do know has this province holding some of the largest debt per capita, some of the highest costs of housing, some of the highest rates of child poverty, some of the lower educational standards failing infrastructure and a job market that is built on low quality jobs without benefits.

[Misconduct16]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The issue with this is

 

We KNOW what the Liberals are doing with the province and we know their platform is literally just liesd.  Thus far 7 major promises of much needed spending that are set for "after the election" or "if we win the election" which is the same game they gave us last time and of the then 6 major promises they gave us, 1 has been accomplished.  Site C, which is still the most contentious and worthless. *There's a big difference between having a long payback period and being worthless. BC is a net importer of power, we literally do not have the capacity to power everything in our province right now, let alone in the future as demands rise. And please, before you go quote 'we have X plants that make X MWH and our demand is this' remember that we are primarily hydro electric, you can't run all units in all stations all the time, there just isn't enough water. Do I wish we would invest some more in alternative clean energy like solar or wind? Of course! And I'm sure that will happen. But for now, they haven't. Another point is that all these independent power plants that people have pushed for are one of the reasons your power rates have been going up... BC Hydro is forced to subsidize them and pay them more for the power than they actually charge the customer based on the agreements set out to appease the general populous (ie: under-educated sheeple).  Not only are they a net loss in power profits, they actually are all run of the river plants which means they only really produce large amounts of power in the fall and spring, which are the points of the year with the lowest power demands. 

A point I want to make abundantly clear, the BC Liberals have done one absolutely incredible thing in that they are phasing out the BC Hydro required dividend. BC Hydro facilities are all old, and many of them are in process of upgrades and redevelopments (See John Hart, Ruskin, Cheakamus, Bridge River...) in order to increase their outputs and bring 1920's through 60's technology into the 21st century. This requires a large capital investment, causing hydro to need to borrow money to pay this dividend... but no more!
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/bc-hydro-borrows-millions-more-to-pay-government-dividend

 

We also know that their platform consists of promises to stop raising fees and to freeze increases in other spots, which was the same promise as before where Hydro went up over 35% See the attached picture., MSP went up, Mass transit Mass transit is a bad thing? Mass transit didn't happen? Whats your problem with mass transit? While it was a mess, completion of the evergreen line is a huge win for the lower mainland. Federal and provincial funding being accepted for extensions of mass transit out to langley and surrey is a massive benefit for the lower mainland. And if you don't happen to live in the defined lower mainland/fraser valley... well unfortunately you are in the rest of BC you are only about 40% of the population of the province so sometimes you will see the short end of the stick. It's unfortunate thats how it works, but that is just how the cookie crumbles no matter where in the world you are.etc etc etc.

 

At this point I'd rather the devil I don't know than the devil I do.  because the devil I do know has this province holding some of the largest debt per capita, some of the highest costs of housing, Again you are making an argument about something that is really beyond government control. This is purely a case of supply and demand, the city of vancouver and the provincial government are putting in policies (somewhat ridiculous ones in my view) in order to combat housing prices... but it's a case of supply and demand. This exists in cities throughout the country and the world that are desirable.  some of the highest rates of child poverty, some of the lower educational standards Fact check these last two bud failing infrastructure Excuse me? Failing infrastructure? You must be smoking something and a job market that is built on low quality jobs without benefits.

Now that thats out of the way, you are exactly the type of hype without research or substance person that I want to actually do some goddamn research before voting. I am by no means a liberal backbencher... at current moment I am somewhat undecided between liberals and green.

[JM_]

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The issue with this is

 

We KNOW what the Liberals are doing with the province and we know their platform is literally just liesd.  Thus far 7 major promises of much needed spending that are set for "after the election" or "if we win the election" which is the same game they gave us last time and of the then 6 major promises they gave us, 1 has been accomplished.  Site C, which is still the most contentious and worthless.

 

We also know that their platform consists of promises to stop raising fees and to freeze increases in other spots, which was the same promise as before where Hydro went up over 35%, MSP went up, Mass transit etc etc etc.

 

At this point I'd rather the devil I don't know than the devil I do.  because the devil I do know has this province holding some of the largest debt per capita, some of the highest costs of housing, some of the highest rates of child poverty, some of the lower educational standards failing infrastructure and a job market that is built on low quality jobs without benefits.

 

Hows that any different from the NDP or Greens spending promises? Everyone is promising $$$ if they are elected to their various areas of interest. 

 

You never give any credit for this: " Once again, British Columbia will lead other provinces in growth this year, advancing by as much as three per cent." ( http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canadas-gdp-fortunes-looking-up-for-2017-economists-say-but-provincial-picture-is-less-smooth). 

 

BC has the best performing economy in Canada and is diversifying more every year. Thats not an opinion, thats reality. None of that would have happened under the NDP. 

 

Now you may be po'd over teachers or campaign cash grabs, etc. but some of the things you are blaming the Lib's for are national issues - are Toronto and Calgary home prices their fault too? And we do not have some of the lowest educational standards, thats just made up bs. Whats this "failing infrastructure" thing? 

 

The entire country is dealing with an explosion of part time vs full time work. You want to single out the Lib's for this but its a pan-Canadian issue, again one that the NDP has no answer for. Why? Because they do not know how, and don't have the will to, work with industry other than the same old us vs. them baloney. 

 

There are a lot of legit things to be po'd about with the Liberals, but the economy isn't one of them, and the NDP doesn't have a single idea here other than to tax business more. What do you think that will do to new job growth? 

 

One of the reasons I'm considering Green is at least they are willing to invest in new tech areas and work with companies to grow at least one segment of the economy. The NDP has never been willing to do that. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

22 minutes ago, Misconduct16 said:

Now that thats out of the way, you are exactly the type of hype without research or substance person that I want to actually do some goddamn research before voting. I am by no means a liberal backbencher... at current moment I am somewhat undecided between liberals and green.

I gotcha when i get home bud.  Don't worry.

[JM_]

A point I want to make abundantly clear, the BC Liberals have done one absolutely incredible thing in that they are phasing out the BC Hydro required dividend. BC Hydro facilities are all old, and many of them are in process of upgrades and redevelopments (See John Hart, Ruskin, Cheakamus, Bridge River...) in order to increase their outputs and bring 1920's through 60's technology into the 21st century. This requires a large capital investment, causing hydro to need to borrow money to pay this dividend... but no more!
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/bc-hydro-borrows-millions-more-to-pay-government-dividend

 

This is a very important point @Misconduct16 is making here - by eliminating the need to pay these dividends back to the province it provides the funds needed to pay off Site C much earlier than any of the so-called NDP projections claim. And this only is able to be done because of the strong financial position we're in. 

[Warhippy]

34 minutes ago, Misconduct16 said:

Now that thats out of the way, you are exactly the type of hype without research or substance person that I want to actually do some goddamn research before voting. I am by no means a liberal backbencher... at current moment I am somewhat undecided between liberals and green.

BC a power importer huh?  Not based on these, we've been importers before dependent on prices and instream flow via hydro electric but are predominantly an exporter

 

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/3/british-columbia-leads-charge-electricity-exports-/

 

http://web.uvic.ca/~kooten/documents/BCgeneratingSystem.pdf

 

http://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/regional-news/b-c-leads-the-way-in-record-setting-year-for-electricity-exports-1.2200892

 

Site C is not essential or needed for at least another 14 years or more based on all estimates as BC has enough current infrastructure to maintain growth until 2050, as well it is uneconomical and already over budget

 

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/site-c-not-needed-least-2029-bc-hydros-numbers-show/

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/site-c-not-the-best-choice-for-bcs-energy-needs-report-author-says/article29024804/

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/site-c-suspension-ubc-report-1.4074750

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/why-construction-of-bcs-site-c-dam-should-be-scrapped/article34431665/

 

If Hydro needed/needs the money so badly why are they raising rates and taking from them?

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Government+grabbing+cash+from+ICBC+Hydro+they+raise+rates+charges/9527548/story.html

 

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/liberal-pals-plundering-bc-hydro-tens-billions/

 

MSP increases?

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/msp-hikes-will-hit-over-500-000-b-c-families-in-the-new-year-1.3896495

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/benefit-plans/news-announcements/british-columbia-medical-services-plan-notice-premium-rate-increase-2016.html

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/1159837/msp-premiums-will-have-doubled-since-liberals-took-power/

 

Transit increases?  I mean I know we're only 40% of the province as you say, yet make up over 60% of all tax revenue and BC's GDP but hey, why care right, you get yours.  Sounds familiar

 

http://www.straight.com/news/834421/transit-fares-property-taxes-metro-vancouver-increase-yearly-starting-2017

 

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/134697/Transit-fares-will-increase

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-transit-considers-fare-hike-cutting-transfers-1.2075267

 

Some of the highest debt per capita is NOT the governments fault?  Or out of their control?  Uhhmm...actually that is directly under their control and wheelhouse.  

 

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/liberal-govt-bc-drowning-hidden-debt/

 

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/bcs-big-spending-tax-increasing-budget

 

http://www.taxtips.ca/statistics/bcdebt.htm

 

Education lagging or failing in BC?

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-post-secondary-education-failing-b-c-students-1.2340278

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sarah-miller2/christy-clark-education-grant_b_9645538.html

 

Infrastructure

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/paving-the-way-forward-or-not/article24882439/

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/major+government+projects+over+budget+missing+features/11583978/story.html

 

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/395916121.html

=================================================================================================================

 

Now that that is out of the way you can sit back and understand I know my proverbial s**t.  Now, it helps to do some gods be damned research before claiming someone else is wrong.  And for everyone else, there is no Tyee nor is there any sole sourced info in there.  So there is no NDP/Green/Liberal bias.  I've researched and followed this provincial government for decades, I happen to know what I am talking about and an infographic detailing monthly average rates WITHOUT municipal service charges does not in any way mean a dogs left gland to this conversation.

 

Your rebuttal

[Warhippy]

58 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Hows that any different from the NDP or Greens spending promises? Everyone is promising $$$ if they are elected to their various areas of interest. 

 

You never give any credit for this: " Once again, British Columbia will lead other provinces in growth this year, advancing by as much as three per cent." ( http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canadas-gdp-fortunes-looking-up-for-2017-economists-say-but-provincial-picture-is-less-smooth). 

 

BC has the best performing economy in Canada and is diversifying more every year. Thats not an opinion, thats reality. None of that would have happened under the NDP. 

 

Now you may be po'd over teachers or campaign cash grabs, etc. but some of the things you are blaming the Lib's for are national issues - are Toronto and Calgary home prices their fault too? And we do not have some of the lowest educational standards, thats just made up bs. Whats this "failing infrastructure" thing? 

 

The entire country is dealing with an explosion of part time vs full time work. You want to single out the Lib's for this but its a pan-Canadian issue, again one that the NDP has no answer for. Why? Because they do not know how, and don't have the will to, work with industry other than the same old us vs. them baloney. 

 

There are a lot of legit things to be po'd about with the Liberals, but the economy isn't one of them, and the NDP doesn't have a single idea here other than to tax business more. What do you think that will do to new job growth? 

 

One of the reasons I'm considering Green is at least they are willing to invest in new tech areas and work with companies to grow at least one segment of the economy. The NDP has never been willing to do that. 

 

 

 

 

 

Correction, I don't give credit because credit is not due.

 

in one sense "it is not the governments doing" until it is a benefit to them then it is

 

BCs economy is a farce.  Job quality is ridiculously low, based on PT or near Full Time jobs, no benefits no appreciable wage growth and mostly built on the backs of real estate and construction, both of which falter for even a quarter and this province tumbles.

 

I am not giving anyone credit for building a house of cards and claiming the foundation is stable, I never will.

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/3307975/generation-squeeze-bc-economy/

 

http://credbc.ca/role-energy-sector-bcs-economy/

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/05/12/bc-real-estate-alberta-oil-economy_n_9938922.html

 

BCs biggest city Vancouver is a port city, yet has some of the lowest numbers of corporate head offices in the country, is held and propped up by real estate transactions and construction and THEN the ports.  By and large after that it is a service industry city.

 

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/5/report-vancouvers-economy-highlights-threat-reside/

 

The economy of this province is a sham, no matter how you want to spin it my man.  One knock on construction or real estate and it's over.  This is not arguable.  Why would I give credit for that?

 

You cannot capably sit and claim "the NDP wouldn't be able to do that" when after 20 years this is what we see as the "economic engine of canada"

 

I posted all my links and numbers to my prior claims.  BCs education system is failing, formerly high marks are starting to erode, infrastructure is failing as evidenced by municipal and regional operating deficits.  Twinning highways section by section and only paying attention to bridges and rail in Vancouver is not dealing with a provincial issue.  Like it or not there is FAR mroe to this province than one region.

 

Would the NDP be worse, as I have said before who knows.  They could be, they could be better.  But the end of the day comes and it shows me we need to change the government now.  Whether it is green, NDP, or Conservative.  Even a minority government is more preferable to the elitist belief that we can do no wrong that we are seeing from the BC Liberals

 

And if you need that in a memo I am sorry Saul, it was triple deleted

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Correction, I don't give credit because credit is not due.

 

in one sense "it is not the governments doing" until it is a benefit to them then it is

 

BCs economy is a farce.  Job quality is ridiculously low, based on PT or near Full Time jobs, no benefits no appreciable wage growth and mostly built on the backs of real estate and construction, both of which falter for even a quarter and this province tumbles.

 

I am not giving anyone credit for building a house of cards and claiming the foundation is stable, I never will.

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/3307975/generation-squeeze-bc-economy/

 

http://credbc.ca/role-energy-sector-bcs-economy/

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/05/12/bc-real-estate-alberta-oil-economy_n_9938922.html

 

BCs biggest city Vancouver is a port city, yet has some of the lowest numbers of corporate head offices in the country, is held and propped up by real estate transactions and construction and THEN the ports.  By and large after that it is a service industry city.

 

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/5/report-vancouvers-economy-highlights-threat-reside/

 

The economy of this province is a sham, no matter how you want to spin it my man.  One knock on construction or real estate and it's over.  This is not arguable.  Why would I give credit for that?

 

You cannot capably sit and claim "the NDP wouldn't be able to do that" when after 20 years this is what we see as the "economic engine of canada"

 

I posted all my links and numbers to my prior claims.  BCs education system is failing, formerly high marks are starting to erode, infrastructure is failing as evidenced by municipal and regional operating deficits.  Twinning highways section by section and only paying attention to bridges and rail in Vancouver is not dealing with a provincial issue.  Like it or not there is FAR mroe to this province than one region.

 

Would the NDP be worse, as I have said before who knows.  They could be, they could be better.  But the end of the day comes and it shows me we need to change the government now.  Whether it is green, NDP, or Conservative.  Even a minority government is more preferable to the elitist belief that we can do no wrong that we are seeing from the BC Liberals

 

And if you need that in a memo I am sorry Saul, it was triple deleted

 

You simply can't ignore the big facts Hip. Most economic growth, most diversified, 3-4% annual growth in manufacturing for 15 years and most trade with Asia. None of that is an "accident" or a "house of cards". Nothing you've posted negates these facts. That's not "spin" or "sham" you're just ignoring facts.

 

If you can figure out a way to move Vancouver closer to central Canada so we get more head offices, lets hear the plan.

 

Municipal operating budgets are their own, you cannot pass that on to the province or the feds. Municipalities have a lot of power if they want to do things. Look at Burnaby, dipper ground zero, and the lack of anything substantial on social housing. That's not Clarks fault, that's squarely on NDP guru Corrigan passing the buck for 20 years. Horgan is cut from the same cloth, nothing will get done.

 

And yes I can claim that the NDP wouldn't have done these things. Look at every NDP gov't across Canada, its the same philosophy of "us vs. them" that negates any meaningful partnerships with industry.

 

 

 

 

[Misconduct16]

38 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

BC a power importer huh?  Not based on these, we've been importers before dependent on prices and instream flow via hydro electric but are predominantly an exporter Evidently you have a lack of comprehension skills reading. In dollar value we are a net exporter, but this is due to the flexibility of hydro electric power being able to be turned on and off at will whereas coal and natural gas plants are less able to do so. The actual total power transfer is a negative.

 

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/3/british-columbia-leads-charge-electricity-exports-/

This article is based on financials not energy and is very lightly researched, we are a net exporter value wise because we have the flexibility hydro power offers of turning units on and off as needed which isn't possible with coal/natural gas fired power plants. 

 

http://web.uvic.ca/~kooten/documents/BCgeneratingSystem.pdf
This is a well done piece, and while it takes into consideration peak demand etc it does ignore some major issues like the fact that there is significant power loss in transmission (you can't just take the production power of generators and yes I saw they have a 15% reduction but this isn't said to incorporate this), the fact that IPPs I previously mentioned and other run of the river plants (aberfeldie, etc) produce near ZERO power during peak periods mid summer and mid winter when water flows are low. It is well researched and a decent capture, but does not provide a full picture.

 

http://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/regional-news/b-c-leads-the-way-in-record-setting-year-for-electricity-exports-1.2200892

Again, this article is based of financials not power production and is thus irrelevant in the discussion. Realistically it actually furthers the point that its a good thing and BC can export more power at peak demand times to create more profit which either ends up being put into capital improvements for the province or back in government coffers.

 

Site C is not essential or needed for at least another 14 years or more based on all estimates as BC has enough current infrastructure to maintain growth until 2050, as well it is uneconomical and already over budget 
It is a public project, as a construction person if you are realistically forced to take low bid all the time for works that include a lot of variability (like the ridiculously large earthworks that are site c) you are going to A) pay a lot of money in work changes because that is how a contractor bids it (with entire purpose of making up nearly all profits in changes) and B ) generally have lower quality work as people try to make up the low bid in other places.

 

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/site-c-not-needed-least-2029-bc-hydros-numbers-show/

Not needed until 2029... unless you consider the fact that many of the major generating stations are going to have to be out of service in the next 15 years for substantial repair/upgrade etc. When you consider the ISD of site C is 2025 without incorporating any major delays or changes, you have to realistically expect the project not to be fully commissioned and under way until 2026 or 2027... pretty damn close to that 2029 date. And this is under the assumption natural gas etc. does not have a major bounceback in the next 8 years causing a big jump in industrial power demands. 

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/site-c-not-the-best-choice-for-bcs-energy-needs-report-author-says/article29024804/

This is an opinion article with limited facts. 'Alternate options'... like I said I heartily agree other power production options should be explored but there are issues no matter which option is chosen.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/site-c-suspension-ubc-report-1.4074750

Unfortunately the report https://watergovernance.ca/projects/sitec/ does not actually include any of the data they base their conclusions on in order to further discussion. 

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/why-construction-of-bcs-site-c-dam-should-be-scrapped/article34431665/

This is purely environmental and thus not relevant to 

 

If Hydro needed/needs the money so badly why are they raising rates and taking from them?

This is largely due to the ancient dividend that has to be paid out. If run as a private company BC Hydro would reinvest in its assets as needed without having to deal with paying out a billion dollars a year (ok a bit of an exaggeration, but not much). Also, you complain about raising rates, but look at your price of power. As compared to canada, north america, and the world, we have great power rates. Can you imagine if it was private and we paid for power like we pay for phone services, internet and tv services, etc here? Your bill would go through the roof.

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Government+grabbing+cash+from+ICBC+Hydro+they+raise+rates+charges/9527548/story.html

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/liberal-pals-plundering-bc-hydro-tens-billions/

 

MSP increases? I have no knowledge on this and no argument for or against, personally I hate paying my MSP premiums but have been extremely happy with the care I receive whenever I do something stupid and have to go visit the ER. I've had 2 parents have to go through the BC Health care system (one in her 50's, one in his 60's) for very intensive care and both received great treatment. So, no arguments here. 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/msp-hikes-will-hit-over-500-000-b-c-families-in-the-new-year-1.3896495

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/benefit-plans/news-announcements/british-columbia-medical-services-plan-notice-premium-rate-increase-2016.html

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/1159837/msp-premiums-will-have-doubled-since-liberals-took-power/

 

Transit increases?  I mean I know we're only 40% of the province as you say, yet make up over 60% of all tax revenue and BC's GDP but hey, why care right, you get yours.  Sounds familiar 60% of tax revenue is from outside the lower mainland? Is this total taxes, income taxes, business taxes, what? As far as income tax goes if this stat is anywhere near right it baffles me. 

 

http://www.straight.com/news/834421/transit-fares-property-taxes-metro-vancouver-increase-yearly-starting-2017

Metro vancouver transit fares increasing... so the people that use the transit system are going to help fund improvements to it... your problem with this is what?

 

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/134697/Transit-fares-will-increase

All this article shows is how reasonable transit is in the kelowna area. The rates including the increase is significantly lower than the rest of the province.

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-transit-considers-fare-hike-cutting-transfers-1.2075267

"Fares cover 27 per cent of the $32.4-million cost of running Greater Victoria’s transit system, which provides 25 million rides a year"... Again increasing fares so that users of a system pay for it. Seems like a good idea to me.

 

Some of the highest debt per capita is NOT the governments fault?  Or out of their control?  Uhhmm...actually that is directly under their control and wheelhouse.  

 

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/liberal-govt-bc-drowning-hidden-debt/

Hahahahah, this furthers my points that IPPs are the biggest problem with the power production system in BC. Unfortunately, the people of BC PUSHED HARD to have other options for power, which was pushed back on for years, and finally bent. This article blames this on the liberals, but this was highly motivated by the BC general public. You wanted options? Here it is. Guess you cant' have your cake and eat it to.

LNG? This was a failed calculated gamble. Hopefully it pays off in the future as natural resource prices rebound.

 

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/bcs-big-spending-tax-increasing-budget

This is quoting 2008/09 and 09/10. Not even going to bother reading it.

 

http://www.taxtips.ca/statistics/bcdebt.htm

No offence, but what is this website? Pop-ups and clickbait galore? The biggest fact I garner from this is the Debt to GDP ratio... only 1 year was the NDP's ratio lower than the last 14 years of Liberals.

 

Education lagging or failing in BC? It may be that I'm reading these quickly, but it appears that neither of your articles says anything supporting your fact that the education of students is actually lagging. These actually mainly focus on post secondary education, which as stated below I agree that pushing more people to trades instead of useless degrees is great for everyone.

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-post-secondary-education-failing-b-c-students-1.2340278

*cough* "OPINION".
This article says its targeting skills training due to LNG which is a myth. Do you know why trades are pushed? Have you been on a construction site or anywhere there are tradespeople? Look at the ages of the people doing the work. The last 2 generations have been pushed to go to university hard, and are frequently getting basketweaving degrees under the titles of political science and anthropology and other... productive ventures. While being educated is great, the fact is you always need someone to do the work. I have, and will continue to suggest, to many of my friends and family that when they are considering university, to not write off trade school. There is lots of room for growth, good pay in many cases, union protection, and its damn useful work. Welders, Carpenters, Plumbers, Electricians are realistically the backbone of society, they keep everything working. Pushing a reinvestment into the trades is one of the best things the provincial and federal governments can do.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sarah-miller2/christy-clark-education-grant_b_9645538.html

You are right in that I believe classes are overcrowded and schools are underfunded. Also, this quotes a minimum wage article... Look into the impacts of raising minimum wage. It's not pretty.

 

Infrastructure

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/paving-the-way-forward-or-not/article24882439/

This is two years old and the only vancouver reference is on the viaducts... which have a plan in place to remove and redevelop the areas. sooo... great link.

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/major+government+projects+over+budget+missing+features/11583978/story.html

I'm entirely devoid of knowledge on IT projects, but these stats seem like it explains the IT industry as the problem and not the government projects
"She cited two academic studies that reveal universal failure rates of 65 per cent — or two out of every three projects — for complex systems." and further proven

“Large scale computing infrastructures frequently fall far short of articulated goals and expectations, and a new approach to understanding IT projects is warranted,” said Balka, an expert in information technology systems.

“It is astonishing to me that as a culture we think (this failure rate) is OK. We really haven’t, as a culture, said, ‘We have to do this better. We can’t accept this.’” Over the last decade, success rates for large-scale IT programs have been only 35 per cent, according to The Standish Group, which researches software projects around the world. A mere two per cent are outright successes.

 

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/395916121.html

This article points out there is a major deficit, but not the reason behind why lots of the interior has such major deficits. I believe that much of the interior was highly dependent on the wood (and thus the pulp and paper industry) which has essentially disappeared in the last decade. This has lead to lack of employment and  and need for incentives (such as low property taxes etc) for to give people incentives to live there. The interior as a whole is largely missing industry, and sort of has a cycle of money within without any production of tangible resources (and thus without a net income to the area)

=================================================================================================================

 

Now that that is out of the way you can sit back and understand I know my proverbial s**t lol no you don't you read a plethora of mainstream media and spout off like you know things.  Now, it helps to do some gods be damned research before claiming someone else is wrong.  And for everyone else, there is no Tyee nor is there any sole sourced info in there.  So there is no NDP/Green/Liberal bias.  I've researched and followed this provincial government for decades, I happen to know what I am talking about and an infographic detailing monthly average rates WITHOUT municipal service charges does not in any way mean a dogs left gland to this conversation.

 

Your rebuttal

You have a whole pile of media, and very few scholarly articles in here. In general, you have actually furthered my points instead of your own.

Love your critical analysis of things. Top notch.

[Warhippy]

45 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

You simply can't ignore the big facts Hip. Most economic growth, most diversified, 3-4% annual growth in manufacturing for 15 years and most trade with Asia. None of that is an "accident" or a "house of cards". Nothing you've posted negates these facts. That's not "spin" or "sham" you're just ignoring facts.

 

If you can figure out a way to move Vancouver closer to central Canada so we get more head offices, lets hear the plan.

 

Municipal operating budgets are their own, you cannot pass that on to the province or the feds. Municipalities have a lot of power if they want to do things. Look at Burnaby, dipper ground zero, and the lack of anything substantial on social housing. That's not Clarks fault, that's squarely on NDP guru Corrigan passing the buck for 20 years. Horgan is cut from the same cloth, nothing will get done.

 

And yes I can claim that the NDP wouldn't have done these things. Look at every NDP gov't across Canada, its the same philosophy of "us vs. them" that negates any meaningful partnerships with industry.

 

 

 

 

OK

 

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/toby-sanger/2015/09/ndp-far-have-most-fiscally-responsible-record-any-federal-party

 

http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties/

 

Hmm...reports and numbers show the NDP is actually the best financial managers at the provincial level.  Balancing budgets about 50% of the time and leaving budget surpluses as well.  It also shows they tend to lead provinces through or during economic downturns which skews their appearance of being sound fiscal managers.

 

These are unassailable numbers.

 

Asd for ignoring facts, numbers.  i posted credible links that backed up my statements regarding BC and vancouvers economies.  as well as the debt and issues surrounding this province.  Again, these are unassailable facts.  One knock to real estate and real estate fed construction of any prolonged period of time of a quarter to two fiscal quarters and this province's economy falls apart.  

 

So please sir, while we can agree to disagree, do not claim I am "ignoring facts" when I post them.

[Warhippy]

8 minutes ago, Misconduct16 said:

You have a whole pile of media, and very few scholarly articles in here. In general, you have actually furthered my points instead of your own.

Love your critical analysis of things. Top notch.

Great stuff bud.

 

I'd applaud you but your condescending attitude and smarmy disavowal of anything I posted doesn't really deserve it.  You picked through choice information to find information that suited your argument and that's awesome while ignoring all other pertinent information.  We're going to avoid talking to each other now I think.  Political discourse leads to an ignoring of values and information that doesn't suit a narrative one has decided on.

 

Here's your gold star

 

[JM_]

22 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

OK

 

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/toby-sanger/2015/09/ndp-far-have-most-fiscally-responsible-record-any-federal-party

 

http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties/

 

Hmm...reports and numbers show the NDP is actually the best financial managers at the provincial level.  Balancing budgets about 50% of the time and leaving budget surpluses as well.  It also shows they tend to lead provinces through or during economic downturns which skews their appearance of being sound fiscal managers.

 

These are unassailable numbers.

 

Asd for ignoring facts, numbers.  i posted credible links that backed up my statements regarding BC and vancouvers economies.  as well as the debt and issues surrounding this province.  Again, these are unassailable facts.  One knock to real estate and real estate fed construction of any prolonged period of time of a quarter to two fiscal quarters and this province's economy falls apart.  

 

So please sir, while we can agree to disagree, do not claim I am "ignoring facts" when I post them.

 

its easy to balance a budget when you're not investing! And please look at the corresponding economic growth, and industry diversification under the NDP. Think Saskatchewan without oil.

 

Our debt issues are more than manageable. Our Debt to GDP ratio is under 20%, far below any sort of warning sign issues, and there have been 5 balanced budgets in a row, so since you are crediting the NDP with that elsewhere, why not here too?

 

You can post as many articles as you want but there is a mountain of evidence, not to mention common sense, that indicates BC has the best economy in Canada.

 

Nearly all of your arguments are national scale issues as well - housing cost, part-time employment, etc. On whats been under provincial control, we are in the best shape of all provinces economically.

 

 

 

[The Vancouver Connection]

All the Greens should be voting NDP. 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, The Vancouver Connection said:

All the Greens should be voting NDP. 

All NDP should vote Green.

[kingofsurrey]

12 hours ago, Aircool said:

God, reading this thread reminds me of how hopeless politics really is. People have the worst reasons for voting ever.

Everyone has their own issues about what is important for them  in terms of voting.

 

Pretty arrogant of you to think you are the only one that values the correct issue. Is this really the message you want to send out. 

 

Voting is deeply personal.  

 

People should be encouraged to have diverse opinions.  That is what makes Canada great.

 

Most important thing of all is just that people do GO OUT and VOTE.  

[kingofsurrey]

Think Steelhead (or Fisheries) this Election

We are all aware that steelhead in British Columbia are facing serious threats. The upcoming BC election provides us with a great opportunity to have our concerns heard. The Steelhead Society of British Columbia (SSBC) urges that all Society members and others who care about steelhead to take this opportunity to ask political party leaders and the candidates in their ridings some pointed questions. Then consider voting for those that give the answers that best support our steelhead. 

Here are some of the key questions:

Why is there no Provincial Ministry dedicated to Fisheries? 

Freshwater sportfishing in British Columbia contributes $957M to the economy of which steelhead account for approximately $239.25M. Yet both the money and the steelhead are lost in the provincial Ministry of Forest Lands, Natural Resource Operations... “Fisheries” is absent in the name of this ministry and seemingly in its mandate as well.


How is the provincial government going to support recovery of Interior steelhead populations?

The flagship of BC fish is the magnificent Thompson River steelhead. Anglers come from around the world to test themselves against these fish, the ultimate of their species. However, this world-famous icon is in major trouble, as the 2016-17 season produced approximately 350 spawners on the Thompson and 140 on the Chilcotin.

[DonLever]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

OK

 

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/toby-sanger/2015/09/ndp-far-have-most-fiscally-responsible-record-any-federal-party

 

http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties/

 

Hmm...reports and numbers show the NDP is actually the best financial managers at the provincial level.  Balancing budgets about 50% of the time and leaving budget surpluses as well.  It also shows they tend to lead provinces through or during economic downturns which skews their appearance of being sound fiscal managers.

 

These are unassailable numbers.

 

Asd for ignoring facts, numbers.  i posted credible links that backed up my statements regarding BC and vancouvers economies.  as well as the debt and issues surrounding this province.  Again, these are unassailable facts.  One knock to real estate and real estate fed construction of any prolonged period of time of a quarter to two fiscal quarters and this province's economy falls apart.  

 

So please sir, while we can agree to disagree, do not claim I am "ignoring facts" when I post them.

Those two sources are opinions from 2 writers from 2 left wing organizations.   So of course they will use data to support their left wing position. 

 

You can get a different conclusion from a right wing organization like the Fraser institute when they to use data to support their position.   The can use certain numbers to say the NDP is the worst government ever.

 

So you have to take any conclusion with a grain of salt, depending on the bias of the author, whether or left or right.

 

I prefer Stats Canada, a non biased organization.  According to Stats Canada, BC has one of the best economy in terms of job growth in  Canada.  Now that is an unassailable fact.

 

from Vancouver Sun, January 6, 2017
 

Quote

 

Statistics Canada says British Columbia recorded the fastest employment growth rate among the provinces in 2016 for a second consecutive year.

It says the province had a net gain of 72,000 jobs, evenly split between full- and part-time work and spread across many industries.

 

 

[apollo]

First and foremost, I want change and end to Clark era. 

 

I definitely side with Green, however I'm worried a vote for the Greens means Liberals win again. So I may end up voting NDP.