(Discussion) Realistic D rebuild?

[BigTramFan]

Here is my sketch for a realistic rebuild of our D corps. It will take some time. There are countless possible moves for JB to make, but I think these are all plausible moves. We can’t just dump all our contracts and hire UFAs.

 

I have assumed that Edler will not waive his NTC until the 2019 TDL, plus we will not get Tryamkin back :-(

 

I have also assumed that we will not be able to secure elite UFA Dmen such as Karlsson, Doughty, Carlson, OEL, etc.

 

Prior to 2018 entry draft:

Trade Goldobin to Anaheim for Josh Mahura (LD, 6’1”, 190lb, 20 years, 68pts in last 58 games in WHL).

 

Trade Hutton to anyone for any pick possible.

 

Sign Mike Green as UFA for 3 years @ $5m/yr. I think Green is gettable. He is nearing the end of his career. He can play a critical mentoring and offensive role for our rebuilding team. And it allows us to...

 

Trade Tanev to Toronto for 2018 1st, 2018 3rd, 2019 2nd, Rasanen

 

Draft: 

Evan Bouchard (with Van 1st)

K’Andre Miller (with Tor 1st)

 

2018-19 D line up:

Edler Green

MDZ Gudbranson

Juolevi Stecher

Pouliot Biega

 

By 2019 TDL:

Trade Edler and MDZ as rentals to contending teams for highest possible picks

 

2019-20 D lineup:

Juolevi Green

Mahura Gudbranson

Pouliot Bouchard

Miller Stecher

 

2020-21 D lineup:

Juolevi Bouchard

Mahura Green

Miller Gudbranson

Pouliot/Stecher/Rasanen

 

 

Potential contender full Canucks lineup in 2020-21:

 

Dahlen Horvat Boeser

Kane Petterson Lind

Leipsic Gaudette Virtanen

Gadjovich Sutter Motte

Ericksson

 

Juolevi Bouchard

Mahura Green

Miller Gudbranson

Pouliot/Stecher/Rasanen

 

Demko

Raanta

[Father Ryan]

23 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Here is my sketch for a realistic rebuild of our D corps. It will take some time. There are countless possible moves for JB to make, but I think these are all plausible moves. We can’t just dump all our contracts and hire UFAs.

 

I have assumed that Edler will not waive his NTC until the 2019 TDL, plus we will not get Tryamkin back :-(

 

I have also assumed that we will not be able to secure elite UFA Dmen such as Karlsson, Doughty, Carlson, OEL, etc.

 

Prior to 2018 entry draft:

Trade Goldobin to Anaheim for Josh Mahura (LD, 6’1”, 190lb, 20 years, 68pts in last 58 games in WHL).

 

Trade Hutton to anyone for any pick possible.

 

Sign Mike Green as UFA for 3 years @ $5m/yr. I think Green is gettable. He is nearing the end of his career. He can play a critical mentoring and offensive role for our rebuilding team. And it allows us to...

 

Trade Tanev to Toronto for 2018 1st, 2018 3rd, 2019 2nd, Rasanen

 

Draft: 

Evan Bouchard (with Van 1st)

K’Andre Miller (with Tor 1st)

 

2018-19 D line up:

Edler Green

MDZ Gudbranson

Juolevi Stecher

Pouliot Biega

I agree, it will take a bit to get the D fixed. The only issues I have with your scenario are:

I don't think Green will sign for that, it will likely take more. Not too sure that Benning would do that anyway, though the thought is laudable.

I don't think Tanev would fetch all of that. The picks, yes, but not Rasanen along with the picks. Tanev is good to great at what he does, but he has offensive limitations and is showing himself to be more than a bit fragile. Now, if he wasn't on the top pairing and playing so much, he might last an entire season. Then again, if he wasn't a top pairing Dman, he wouldn't have that kind of a return.

But yeah, Edler isn't going anywhere...Hutton needs to leave, and give us something back, he did good all things considered (3 full seasons out of a 5th round pick).

 

I wouldn't stop there, though. MDZ could bring something (3rd rounder?). We could pick up another UFA on the cheap, or if McEneny is healthy and ready, promote him. Brisebois/Chatfield need at least another year. Also...does Gunnarsson ever come over here? He may not have points (like zero the last time I looked), but it sounds like he's playing decently enough, and is providing his team with some good physical play.

[Baer.]

Tanev would get maybe a 2nd.

[kloubek]

25 minutes ago, Baer. said:

Tanev would get maybe a 2nd.

What?  You mean... like... Tanev straight across for one single 2nd round pick?

 

I hope you aren't actually being that absurd.

[JeremyCuddles]

46 minutes ago, Baer. said:

Tanev would get maybe a 2nd.

Apparently everyone on our roster is worth a 2nd rounder. 

[Baer.]

4 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Apparently everyone on our roster is worth a 2nd rounder. 

Makes sense since Canucks are lacking quality players in every position.

[Baer.]

27 minutes ago, kloubek said:

What?  You mean... like... Tanev straight across for one single 2nd round pick?

 

I hope you aren't actually being that absurd.

So you honestly think Tanev has the same value as Ryan McDonagh.

 

Okay.

[ItsMillerTime]

30 minutes ago, Baer. said:

So you honestly think Tanev has the same value as Ryan McDonagh.

 

Okay.

He probably has around the same value to him maybe a little bit lower. He really doesn't make many mistakes and is always back defensively.   

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, Baer. said:

Tanev would get maybe a 2nd.

Well, you had better phone Pierre LeBrun and many others who are saying dumb things then.   Consensus for these guys seems to be, if he is moved this summer, a first and a decent prospect as a starting point.    Better let them know Baer knows otherwise.

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, Baer. said:

So you honestly think Tanev has the same value as Ryan McDonagh.

 

Okay.

Value at TDL and value in summer can differ but, yes, he does have similar value to the right team.    Yes he does. 

[coastal.view]

so you really think that will happen ?

draft bouchard and plug him right in the line up

and he will simply just succeed ?

no development time required ?

man .. it is well known dmen need development time usually

i mean just look at joulevi

he is following the more normal development path

 

the expectations on here for dmen are far fetched generally

and when those expectations are not met management is then blamed for drafting errors

and told it should have drafted a new shiny toy forward who is already performing in the nhl

 

goalies also require development time

demko is getting that right now

generally you cannot bypass that stage for a young player to successfully transition to the nhl

 

[Alflives]

Where is DHALIN in your scenario?  What if we finish last, like it looks will happen, win the draft lotto, and get DHALIN?  

Plus, where is Jack Rathbone?  The kid is going to be an amazing NHL player.  He's has elite skills, and will be an offensive dynamo for us. 

 

I like your rebuilt d-core, but firmly believe you're missing the two most important guys: DHALIN and Rathbone.  

 

Go Bo Go!!!!!

 

[kloubek]

2 hours ago, Baer. said:

So you honestly think Tanev has the same value as Ryan McDonagh.

 

Okay.

The Ranger trade was entirely different.  There were a lot of moving parts to that trade, and McDonagh was only a piece.  Besides that, Tanev has an extra year on his contract.  Not really sure what your point is here....

 

[mll]

Bieksa and Beauchemin have been healthy scratched several times.  That's 2x Ds they will need to replace on their roster.  They have already moved Vatanen and Theodore.  

 

They are a budget team so it's unlikely that they would move a D on an ELC when they only have 4 regulars right now (Fowler, Manson, Lindholm, Montour).  


 

Last year Benning said he doesn't want to trade Tanev because he'll have to find another Tanev to replace him.  Insiders say he'll only consider a trade for an overpayment.  The team that will overpay for Tanev is not Toronto.  

 

McKenzie as well as Lamoriello have already explained that Toronto will not be trading key future assets.  Their message is not all that different from Benning's - the difference is that they managed to make the playoffs but concepts are similar.  They too are waiting on their young players to develop and join the team but in the meantime they want to try and make the playoffs for experience.

 

Tanev would be a temporary fix because he's not in the age group they are building around (Matthews, Liljegren) so they are unlikely to overpay. They are trying to continue to build their future D-corps and would like to find a D1 and that's through the draft.   They want to build a team that can contend for multiple years.

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Where is DHALIN in your scenario?  What if we finish last, like it looks will happen, win the draft lotto, and get DHALIN?  

Plus, where is Jack Rathbone?  The kid is going to be an amazing NHL player.  He's has elite skills, and will be an offensive dynamo for us. 

 

I like your rebuilt d-core, but firmly believe you're missing the two most important guys: DHALIN and Rathbone.  

 

Go Bo Go!!!!!

 

There is a 20% chance or less that we will win the lottery. More likely we get a pick in the 5-8 range. I would choose Bouchard.

 

I hope Rathbone makes the transition. But he’s small. I think that he may force Stecher or Pouliot out, but I don’t reckon we should have all those 3 players in our top 6. 

[Alflives]

21 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

There is a 20% chance or less that we will win the lottery. More likely we get a pick in the 5-8 range. I would choose Bouchard.

 

I hope Rathbone makes the transition. But he’s small. I think that he may force Stecher or Pouliot out, but I don’t reckon we should have all those 3 players in our top 6. 

Rathbone is way more skilled and a far better puck mover, and skater than any other dman we have ever had in our 50 years.  His ability to control the game from D is unprecedented in our 50 years.

We are getting Dhalin.  My toes, legs, and eyes are crossed.  That will work for sure.

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, coastal.view said:

so you really think that will happen ?

draft bouchard and plug him right in the line up

and he will simply just succeed ?

no development time required ?

man .. it is well known dmen need development time usually

i mean just look at joulevi

he is following the more normal development path

 

the expectations on here for dmen are far fetched generally

and when those expectations are not met management is then blamed for drafting errors

and told it should have drafted a new shiny toy forward who is already performing in the nhl

 

goalies also require development time

demko is getting that right now

generally you cannot bypass that stage for a young player to successfully transition to the nhl

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

I am personally supportive of development time for young players. But at the same time we need to keep the pedal down to make sure we have some new D blood ready to contend in 3 years time.

 

I have Bouchard spending 1 year developing (2018-19) after he is drafted, before entering the NHL in 2019-20. The year he enters he is on bottom pairing at best. 

[kloubek]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Rathbone is way more skilled and a far better puck mover, and skater than any other dman we have ever had in our 50 years.  His ability to control the game from D is unprecedented in our 50 years.

Woah... hold the boat there Flash.  Rathbone has some skills, I know.  He's fast and mobile, and looks to have good vision.  Seems to be a good, character guy too taking care of his brother and all. But he's young and hasn't faced particularly difficult competition for most of his young career.  He's also way undersized, though he seems gritty enough and will probably be able to fill out.

 

In my eyes, he's similar to a Troy Stecher; even faster, but even smaller. I think we all need to see him in serious action against men before we can start to call him "unprecedented" in any way.

 

I do hope you're right though.  If we could steal an offensive top pairing kind of guy in such a late round it would be pretty amazing.

[Tyndall2]

Pouliott is not a full time NHL defenseman.  Makes too many poor passes, too light, not aggressive enough.

 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

Woah... hold the boat there Flash.  Rathbone has some skills, I know.  He's fast and mobile, and looks to have good vision.  Seems to be a good, character guy too taking care of his brother and all. But he's young and hasn't faced particularly difficult competition for most of his young career.  He's also way undersized, though he seems gritty enough and will probably be able to fill out.

 

In my eyes, he's similar to a Troy Stecher; even faster, but even smaller. I think we all need to see him in serious action against men before we can start to call him "unprecedented" in any way.

 

I do hope you're right though.  If we could steal an offensive top pairing kind of guy in such a late round it would be pretty amazing.

competition in Rathbone's high school is pretty much on par with the BCHL or (at least) the AJHL, where Makar played.  Rathbone will prove to be a more impactful NHL player than Makar.  Rathbone will be a superstar!  The kid is really special.