Canucks - Leafs(Proposal)

[Nuxfanabroad]

Van: Tanev, Pouliot, Granlund(or Gaunce)

 

Leafs: Gardiner, Kapanen, 2019 1st(**conditional clause**)

 

- Take a gamble that the Leafs have a poor '18-19 season(maybe injuries finally nail them?) Since we host 2019, be nice to have an extra 1st

- I like Kapanen's speed. Jake, him, Leipsic, Dahlen, Motte..getting faster up front. KK's younger & faster than Granny, that's for sure. I'd also accept moving Gaunce instead. If TO wants more size?

- Gardiner has only 1 yr left..maybe flip him(TDL) for a 2nd, if possible? If he fits, we could ponder a re-signing next summer.

 

**conditional 1st** I think we should agree that if Tanev doesn't play 40 games, we would accept the Leafs 2019 & 2020 2nd rounders instead. It's fair injury-protection, given his recent history.

[Nuxfanabroad]

I'll add that we'll gladly take Dermott instead of Gardiner, if they prefer? Might have to retain a bit of CT's cap(perhaps a mill?)

 

See Gardiner had 52 pts. Doubtful they'd have cap space for this guy's next deal. Anyways he doesn't hold a candle defensively to CT.

 

Anyone who suggests Zaitsev..I wouldn't touch that contract.

[King Heffy]

I don't want Gardiner or Kapanen.  Kapanen is way too soft

 

Nothing other than picks I want from the Laffs.  Dermott's pretty bad defensively.

[Alflives]

40 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I don't want Gardiner or Kapanen.  Kapanen is way too soft

 

Nothing other than picks I want from the Laffs.  Dermott's pretty bad defensively.

Totally agree.  Leafs can keep their soft Smurfs; we will take picks.

[kloubek]

Besides all this, the valuation isn't close.  Maybe if you take out the 1st...

[luckylager]

I dunno, NFA. If we can get a first + for Tanev, I'd count it a win.

 

That makes it  Pouliot and Gaunce, for Dermott and Kapanen. Though it's worth a shot to give Louey Lam an anyrism, I think he hangs up and light his phone on fire.

 

Edit- speaking of lightning phones on fire. If my keyboard or autocorrect updates again----- this phone is gonna die. 

 

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

15 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I dunno, NFA. If we can get a first + for Tanev, I'd count it a win.

 

That makes it  Pouliot and Gaunce, for Dermott and Kapanen. Though it's worth a shot to give Louey Lam an anyrism, I think he hangs up and light his phone on fire.

 

Edit- speaking of lightning phones on fire. If my keyboard or autocorrect updates again----- this phone is gonna die. 

 

 

I drive a harder bargain here because:

 

1- The Fleas will be desperate after a poor PO's(esp defensively)..they're wasting the cap-window where their young stars are affordably ELC.

2- If Tanev is injured again, they're somewhat protected.(with conditional clause of 2 2nd's)

3- A 2019 1st is likely easier to pry away.

 

***Original offer*** Was Dermott IF they didn't want to send Gardiner(1 of these 2)

 

If someone won't pay handsomely, I'd keep Tanev for a long time(re-sign, down the road)

[mll]

Gardiner put up 52 pts last year.  Tanev doesn't bring offence and Pouliot is not an upgrade over Dermott.  Granlund or Gaunce does rather little for them.

 

If they can get veteran players at a reasonable cost to help with their transition they'll do it but giving up key future assets doesn't really fit what they are trying to do.

 

The Leafs are trying to build a perennial contender and be good for years to come.  They want to build around Matthews, Marner and Nylander.  Right now they are waiting for their young players to mature - Dermott, Kapanen, Liljegren etc.  

 

They still want to make the playoffs for experience - and anything can happen in the playoffs.  McKenzie was saying that they are further along than expected but it hasn't altered their plan dramatically.  They are building up their team but are not in a time crunch to win now.  He thinks there might be more flexibility with their plan down the road dependent on the progress of their young players.

 

For MacKenzie, Marleau got JvR's money and it ties to that plan.  JvR is a UFA and he is going to command a cap hit in the range of Marleau's but for a much longer term.  Marleau is a stop-gap for their transition.  JvR would have to be signed for too much term.

 

The Leaf's plan is really not all that different than Benning's.  They are a bit further along and have made the playoffs but they too are still waiting on their future core to develop.

 

[JeremyCuddles]

12 hours ago, King Heffy said:

I don't want Gardiner or Kapanen.  Kapanen is way too soft

 

Nothing other than picks I want from the Laffs.  Dermott's pretty bad defensively.

 

12 hours ago, Alflives said:

Totally agree.  Leafs can keep their soft Smurfs; we will take picks.

I dunno what it is with you fellers calling Kapanen soft or a smurf but the dude has 57 hits in 38 games and Bo has 35 hits in 64 games. Kapanen starts 33% of his even strength shifts in the ozone. It's less than 40 games and he only plays like 12 minutes a game but still, that is a lot of shifts starting defensively for a soft smurf and he is outhitting our good ol Canadian Horvat by a fair margin as well with less icetime and games played. But whatever. Euro/Russian players are automatically soft/smurfs.

[Alflives]

44 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

 

I dunno what it is with you fellers calling Kapanen soft or a smurf but the dude has 57 hits in 38 games and Bo has 35 hits in 64 games. Kapanen starts 33% of his even strength shifts in the ozone. It's less than 40 games and he only plays like 12 minutes a game but still, that is a lot of shifts starting defensively for a soft smurf and he is outhitting our good ol Canadian Horvat by a fair margin as well with less icetime and games played. But whatever. Euro/Russian players are automatically soft/smurfs.

Giving hits (IMHAO) does not define a player as tough.  Toughness is an internal thing.  How hard does the player try to drive through hits, and not avoid others hitting them?  How hard is the player off the puck?  Does the player stop on pucks, taking contact to make plays for his team mates?  How mentally tough is the player?  Does he disappear (like Kapanen and Gardiner do) when the going gets difficult?

Peter Forsberg was one of the toughest players EVER.  Was he a Euro?  Toughness is a state of mind, that cannot be taught.  Kapanen gave Rask a snow shower in game one, but then was easily pushed into the corner, away from the tough area where he needed to stay.  That's not tough. That's soft.

The Leafs are full of soft players. That's why they are losers.  We don't want any of their softies.  

[TheGuardian_]

There are two teams that could use Tanev, both are up and coming, both will have cap issues and will need certainty, both will be expected to make a dent in the playoffs next year.

 

So why not see which team offers more? Edmonton or Toronto?

 

Edmonton's 1rst is more valuable than TO's even if they don't win the lottery, they have big pressure on them to reverse what happened this year and will not want to wait for a top 4 defensive dman to develop.

TO 1rst will not be as sure a thing as Edmonton's.

Edmonton's 9th overall spot will still have a top level dman available allowing the Canucks, baring some luck, the possibility of drafting two really good defensive prospects or one defensive prospect and a forward both possibly in the top ten.

 

At any rate the price for Tanev should start with a 1rst round pick this year and the closer to the #1 the better.

 

BTW, I am pretty sure that Virtanen is on Edmonton's radar after he outskated McDavid on his breakaway from his own blue line while carrying the puck, they might do a 1rst for him alone or offer a very good package.

[Alflives]

34 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

There are two teams that could use Tanev, both are up and coming, both will have cap issues and will need certainty, both will be expected to make a dent in the playoffs next year.

 

So why not see which team offers more? Edmonton or Toronto?

 

Edmonton's 1rst is more valuable than TO's even if they don't win the lottery, they have big pressure on them to reverse what happened this year and will not want to wait for a top 4 defensive dman to develop.

TO 1rst will not be as sure a thing as Edmonton's.

Edmonton's 9th overall spot will still have a top level dman available allowing the Canucks, baring some luck, the possibility of drafting two really good defensive prospects or one defensive prospect and a forward both possibly in the top ten.

 

At any rate the price for Tanev should start with a 1rst round pick this year and the closer to the #1 the better.

 

BTW, I am pretty sure that Virtanen is on Edmonton's radar after he outskated McDavid on his breakaway from his own blue line while carrying the puck, they might do a 1rst for him alone or offer a very good package.

Is this a fair trade?

Tanev + Virtanen for Draisatl?

 

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Is this a fair trade?

Tanev + Virtanen for Draisatl?

 

While I think they would like both I don't think they will want to step backwards. I could see them easily giving up their 1rst round pick for both of them but that might not be enough now.

Virtanen is the answer to their need for a speedy inexpensive winger that can hit, keep up with McDavid and score. If the Canucks continue to want Jake to be more of a hitter and yank him off the ice for every little mistake, then they should move him but I have always maintained that they should explore his offensive potential which they have smothered from time to time.

 

Tanev + Jake for their 1rst pick this year and Poolparty. Maybe throw in a 3rd or 4th rounder to sweeten the deal.  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, TheGuardian_ said:

While I think they would like both I don't think they will want to step backwards. I could see them easily giving up their 1rst round pick for both of them but that might not be enough now.

Virtanen is the answer to their need for a speedy inexpensive winger that can hit, keep up with McDavid and score. If the Canucks continue to want Jake to be more of a hitter and yank him off the ice for every little mistake, then they should move him but I have always maintained that they should explore his offensive potential which they have smothered from time to time.

 

Tanev + Jake for their 1rst pick this year and Poolparty. Maybe throw in a 3rd or 4th rounder to sweeten the deal.  

I remember when Poolparty was drafted there was talk his game fitted well with being a center too.  Could be a steal getting him and (over time) converting him from wing to center.  

[mll]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Is this a fair trade?

Tanev + Virtanen for Draisatl?

 

Tanev is not what Chiarelli is looking for.  Neither is Virtanen.  

 

They are looking for an offensive D. Friedman wrote this in his 31 thoughts in early April (season was not over yet) - Canucks got 120pts from their Ds.  Nashville finished with over 200pts.  

Entering Wednesday’s games, Edmonton had 127 points from defensemen, 27th in the NHL. (Nashville is best, at 195.) That is something the Oilers will address in the off-season. It’s a priority. 

 

They want a top line F to play with McDavid.  Virtanen has yet to figure out how to score goals in the pros.  

[TheGuardian_]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

Tanev is not what Chiarelli is looking for.  Neither is Virtanen.  

 

They are looking for an offensive D. Friedman wrote this in his 31 thoughts in early April (season was not over yet) - Canucks got 120pts from their Ds.  Nashville finished with over 200pts.  

Entering Wednesday’s games, Edmonton had 127 points from defensemen, 27th in the NHL. (Nashville is best, at 195.) That is something the Oilers will address in the off-season. It’s a priority. 

 

They want a top line F to play with McDavid.  Virtanen has yet to figure out how to score goals in the pros.  

I think one of the problems with the Oilers was that the defence was young and leaky so Larsson was playing more D than offence.

 

The stats that a lot of posters and hockey now use show that with Tanev on the ice over 55% of the time is spent in the offensive zone. Now that doesn't mean he is scoring but it does mean the puck is out of the defensive zone much quicker, there are some other stats that show GF then GA when he is on the ice.

 

One of the other Oiler issues is getting consistent goaltending.

 

With the Oilers he could take less PK time but with TO he might have to take more, see injuries.

 

There is one other possibility that they go after Doughty or Karlsson next year, if so they could offer up some of their young dmen as trade bait.

 

If they got Tanev and one of the others I am pretty sure the cup would be visiting the Oilers again or at least a run for the cup.

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, mll said:

Tanev is not what Chiarelli is looking for.  Neither is Virtanen.  

 

They are looking for an offensive D. Friedman wrote this in his 31 thoughts in early April (season was not over yet) - Canucks got 120pts from their Ds.  Nashville finished with over 200pts.  

Entering Wednesday’s games, Edmonton had 127 points from defensemen, 27th in the NHL. (Nashville is best, at 195.) That is something the Oilers will address in the off-season. It’s a priority. 

 

They want a top line F to play with McDavid.  Virtanen has yet to figure out how to score goals in the pros.  

Draisatl and Oiler's 2018 first for Doughty?

[mll]

Just now, Alflives said:

Draisatl and Oiler's 2018 first for Doughty?

Doughty can only sign an extension come 1 July.  Don't see how they can make it work cap wise - some believe he could earn as much as McDavid.  

 

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, mll said:

Doughty can only sign an extension come 1 July.  Don't see how they can make it work cap wise - some believe he could earn as much as McDavid.  

 

That's the most for any Dman by a lot isn't it?  If Doughty get that much, what does EK get?

I wonder if we would have the Cap room and desire to get a Doughty or an EK?  It's only Cap space if we sign was a UFA.

[Sundstrom17]

I don`t think Toronto would give up Gardiner.... And unless they are going to give up Liljegren, Timothy then...

 

On 4/15/2018 at 10:22 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

pairing Juolevi with Tanev e.g., will do more for our D than the trade proposal. 

As much as I like getting and thinking of ways to get new prospects and picks... Jimmy said it.