189lb enforcers? Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Hopeful patients should not use the R word. I’d say Canucks fans have been patient, enduring the early-Linden era’s awkward reluctance to execute a... or to simply manage to utter the word..., rebuild. And what else is there to being a fan of a basement team on the rise, other than hope? Preachy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 4 hours ago, EdgarM said: Still shows that even with these players on your roster, a SC or even a berth into the playoffs is NOT GUARANTEED! You need to build a 23 MAN ROSTER to succeed. Sure it bumps up your odds but it is not essential as proven by the Vegas Knights. It cracks me up when some CDCer's preach to everyone else that they know what it takes to build a championship team and it will take so many years to get to this point. I like the idea that management is preaching right now and that is to always be looking to make the team better no matter how that looks like. You need a goalie? Then use whatever is necessary to acquire such a player. Need better D? Ditto. More offense? You get the idea. The odd thing I see is, when some suggest we get rid of a player we need to get something that may or may not help us. What? Make our team weaker now so that we may or may not get better in the future? If we stick to the model of picking draft picks every year ,and not trade them off ,and picking up players that will help when the opportunity arises, we can field a pretty good team year in and year out. Not this idea of stinking up the league for ten years and HOPE the team comes together within a small window of time. What a bunch of crap. So the poor souls who cough up thousands of dollars to support the team(for those 10 years) are going to put up with that idea? Yeah OK. What makes all of the teams more evenly competitive in the league is Cap compliance. If you are lacking certain players you can simply buy them. You can even trade for them as teams who are close to the cap all of sudden need to get rid of players who are going to put them over the cap. I am glad we are a team that spends to the cap and are not like others who cheap out and are not icing the best team possible for their fans. We have been unfortunately been carrying a couple of big salaries for "nostalgia" reasons which has prevented us from purchasing pieces that we need on this team. Luckily that era has ended and hopefully we can move on to the business of improving the team. I apologise for the big rant but just wanted to express another train of thought from the regular "theories" I have been reading so much of lately. That is putting a lot of words and intent in my mouth. I just voice my opinion on this opinion board. Yes, you need a deep team around your stars and that is the remarkable thing that the Blackhawk's did, they took the team that won in 2009-10, gutted out the expensive players that they could (Big Buff) and rejigged the team into the one that won two more championships. Pittsburgh did the same. Just amazing. You have your star core players and can build around them, as the next tier of players get more expensive you replace them with solid young players. Drafting is very important at all phases of championship building. First though, you need to build a core of star players to build and as necessary rebuild around. Chicago is in its third rebuild around their core. Vegas didn't prove anything, it happens all the time that an average team rides good coaching and hot goaltending to the finals Edmonton with Roloson, Calgary with Kiprusof, the Flyers in 2010, The Senators in 2007, the Ducks in 2003 and all of the Devils wins. They usually lose but occasionally win. Carolina's win is a great example of that. Rode hot goaltending to a win and have sucked ever since. I would rather build a team with a core that can contend year in and year out than hope on some fluky goaltending to get us to the finals but that is just me, you do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 hours ago, EdgarM said: Still shows that even with these players on your roster, a SC or even a berth into the playoffs is NOT GUARANTEED! You need to build a 23 MAN ROSTER to succeed. Sure it bumps up your odds but it is not essential as proven by the Vegas Knights. It cracks me up when some CDCer's preach to everyone else that they know what it takes to build a championship team and it will take so many years to get to this point. I like the idea that management is preaching right now and that is to always be looking to make the team better no matter how that looks like. You need a goalie? Then use whatever is necessary to acquire such a player. Need better D? Ditto. More offense? You get the idea. The odd thing I see is, when some suggest we get rid of a player we need to get something that may or may not help us. What? Make our team weaker now so that we may or may not get better in the future? If we stick to the model of picking draft picks every year ,and not trade them off ,and picking up players that will help when the opportunity arises, we can field a pretty good team year in and year out. Not this idea of stinking up the league for ten years and HOPE the team comes together within a small window of time. What a bunch of crap. So the poor souls who cough up thousands of dollars to support the team(for those 10 years) are going to put up with that idea? Yeah OK. What makes all of the teams more evenly competitive in the league is Cap compliance. If you are lacking certain players you can simply buy them. You can even trade for them as teams who are close to the cap all of sudden need to get rid of players who are going to put them over the cap. I am glad we are a team that spends to the cap and are not like others who cheap out and are not icing the best team possible for their fans. We have been unfortunately been carrying a couple of big salaries for "nostalgia" reasons which has prevented us from purchasing pieces that we need on this team. Luckily that era has ended and hopefully we can move on to the business of improving the team. I apologise for the big rant but just wanted to express another train of thought from the regular "theories" I have been reading so much of lately. Linden made the statement that winning teams build their core through the draft. What a lot of fans want is for those players to be acquired as quickly as possible. If you had the opportunity to land an extra pick in the top ten would you move an older player to do that? Or , is it more important to you to maintain the status quo. We are talking about a player that your scouts are high on and could serve your club for 10 to 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 3:30 PM, appleboy said: Linden made the statement that winning teams build their core through the draft. What a lot of fans want is for those players to be acquired as quickly as possible. If you had the opportunity to land an extra pick in the top ten would you move an older player to do that? Or , is it more important to you to maintain the status quo. We are talking about a player that your scouts are high on and could serve your club for 10 to 15 years. Who could we trade that could land us a top 10 pick? It's easy to say "get high picks", but not so easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovat Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 It’s a younger gen mentality. I want it therefore it will happen kind of mind set. Instant gratification etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 2018-06-18 at 3:30 PM, appleboy said: Linden made the statement that winning teams build their core through the draft. What a lot of fans want is for those players to be acquired as quickly as possible. If you had the opportunity to land an extra pick in the top ten would you move an older player to do that? Or , is it more important to you to maintain the status quo. We are talking about a player that your scouts are high on and could serve your club for 10 to 15 years. I believe we started our build of the new core back in 2013 with Horvat. We have seen what can happen when we have a competent person such as JB being able to actually see talent and build a good foundation of prospects. Do we need 8 picks or 13 in a draft? Do we need to pick in the top 10 or the top 15? I am all for trading a player if that actually fills a need. Not for just the sake of dumping him to get something. I am sure management have that all planned out and are not going to weaken their team just because. There needs to be a foundation in which to build upon and I am not sure trading off foundational players is the optimal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, EdgarM said: I believe we started our build of the new core back in 2013 with Horvat. We have seen what can happen when we have a competent person such as JB being able to actually see talent and build a good foundation of prospects. Do we need 8 picks or 13 in a draft? Do we need to pick in the top 10 or the top 15? I am all for trading a player if that actually fills a need. Not for just the sake of dumping him to get something. I am sure management have that all planned out and are not going to weaken their team just because. There needs to be a foundation in which to build upon and I am not sure trading off foundational players is the optimal choice. You can say that, most would agree, but we’ve seen SlimJim select the foundation. For example, Sutter is a Foundational player. Not really fitting a rebuild model of laying the foundation, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 53 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: You can say that, most would agree, but we’ve seen SlimJim select the foundation. For example, Sutter is a Foundational player. Not really fitting a rebuild model of laying the foundation, IMO. I think players such as Bo and Brock are foundational players. Players such as Sutter are here so that we don't end up like Arizona or Edmonton. There are other prospects who very well may be Foundational players as well such as Demko, Gaudette, Virtanen, OJ etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, EdgarM said: I think players such as Bo and Brock are foundational players. Players such as Sutter are here so that we don't end up like Arizona or Edmonton. There are other prospects who very well may be Foundational players as well such as Demko, Gaudette, Virtanen, OJ etc. Totally agree. We needed to have guys with experience in place to do the heavy lifting, so our youth could develop their complete games. Sutter, Edler, the Twins (while they were here) are perfect for those roles. I'd even put Loui E in the category. Those guys are not only excellent on the ice at taking on the hard roles, they are also very professional off the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, EdgarM said: I think players such as Bo and Brock are foundational players. Players such as Sutter are here so that we don't end up like Arizona or Edmonton. There are other prospects who very well may be Foundational players as well such as Demko, Gaudette, Virtanen, OJ etc. I agree, but that’s what JB referred to Sutter as, hence the ribbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovat Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Sutter says what’s on his mind though. Good or bad whatever at least he has an opinion and says something. He’s a pretty pure bred hockey player as well. Calling Sutter foundational isn’t a reach as in his hockey is foundational. Boeser is a scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 On June 14, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Jimmy McGill said: how the heck could they possibly calculate those odds? They don't even try. Those are not the odds on what the bookies expect to happen. Those are the betting odds that their experience with their customers' preferences indicates will likely balance their betting books to ensure a profit regardless of who wins. Because of that, betting on a favourite is likely a poor bet because so many people want to bet on the favourite that the bookies adjust the betting odds to make that choice less attractive, while betting on the big time underdogs can be excellent bets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 hours until a year between drafts. Subban, Pedan, Holm and Vanek. ? Am I missing anyone or is that really all the Canucks have managed to change out with this roster for draft picks/projects during a year of rebuilding by a GM’s whose apparent strength is - in drafting - talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 On 21/06/2018 at 8:52 AM, EdgarM said: I think players such as Bo and Brock are foundational players. Players such as Sutter are here so that we don't end up like Arizona or Edmonton. There are other prospects who very well may be Foundational players as well such as Demko, Gaudette, Virtanen, OJ etc. Those guys are core players; some are developing into foundation players. Sutter was brought onto the team to be a foundation player to support the team (big minutes, defensive expertise, leadership) until the young players are ready to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 On 2018-06-14 at 6:55 AM, Tre Mac said: Here's an article from The Province today illustrating how the Canucks are not planning to go big on the UFA market this year: Personally I believe this is the right way to go. I really see this management group learning from previous mistakes and really starting to be on the same page from ownership to coaching. I bolded the part about the upcoming draft and whether they'll move the 7th pick, I think that's the right mindset to have. http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ed-willes-canucks-preaching-prudence-patience-and-still-selling-hope What do you see these mistakes to be? Big unwarranted contracts? Hopefully Trading away draft picks instead of adding them? We only have 6 this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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