[Article] Sutter is not a shutdown centre

[EdgarM]

3 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

First you talk about OT now you talk about the PP in one series.  Talk about changing the subject real fast.  Oh BTW, without the Sedins' PP against SJ, they wouldn't have probably even made the finals.  Your negativity to the Sedins' is constant and quite frankly I'm getting real sick of it. 

 

BTW what did Edgar Martinez do for the mariners in the playoffs.  I bet alot less than the Sedins'.

Oh! Your one of those "don't you talk smack about my beloved Sedins" are you?  Too funny. I was talking about very good offensive guys who also have very good defensive abilities to go along with that. Who cares about stats this or stats that, we were given a very good opportunity to win the cup and we didn't, simple as that. Could we have done better with top players who could play more defensively? Maybe. Going up 2-0 and then letting it all fall apart has a lot more to do then just having a lot of players injured as many have suggested.

Oh you mean Edgar who just made it into the Hall of Fame?   Haha you crack me up buddy.

[EdgarM]

47 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Reduced to being a one line team by the finals makes it easy to defend especially for a team like Boston. Look at Calgary this year, one line team and got walked all over by Colorado who are just average defensively.

Excuses are for losers.

[canuck73_3]

6 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Excuses are for losers.

 

The Sedins are great players quit crying about them. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by canuck73_3

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

 

I agree in the playoffs we need even our offensive stars to be good defensively as well.  (I'm looking at you Brock).  I wasn't talking playoffs specifically. We have to get there first. But what I was saying was defensive specialists are JUST AS valuable as offensive specialists, all season and post season. By defensive specialists I gave Chara as an example, or Weber, or a Pronger.  In that they also have size and intimidation. We haven't really ever had a player like that so its hard to relate. Maybe Myers?....we'll see.  And that value is paid for.  Obviously those players also have an offensive upside, but primarily they are paid to shut down the best the opposition has as well as keeping pests honest.

 

And yes we need more than 1 or 2 JOATs. I was speaking more about highly effective ones. ie when we had both Kesler and Burrows in the early part of their careers. I think ANY forward who is not a star is a JOAT to some degree, or they won't last long. Its that 'degree' of talent in all those areas that must be determined.  Sutter has not proven...to me by my eye test, forget analytics even....to be a high end JOAT. Not a 4.5 million one at least. The "and master at none" is also part of that term.  He has been quite mediocre IMO.  Not bad, but not great either. Certainly not the "foundational" piece that JB bragged about when he got him and paid him as such.

 

I think above mediocre JOATs are harder to find. I agree there. And I have high hopes for Ferland and Miller.  But IMO Sutter does not fall into that high end category. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. He's just not that noticeable out there. scoring goals or hitting, aggressive play.  He's good on the PK, but that is really not a rare commodity in the NHL I'm willing to give him another chance. Like I said, with a better supporting cast, and being healthy, I'm sure he'll have a better year. And having him is better than not, for our depth. As long as it doesn't interfere with managing the salary cap. We have a glut of forwards. And he just stands out as one (besides LE) who does not give value for money, including being injury prone, at least after he moved here.

True players such as Chara,Pronger,Byfuglien and Scott Stevens are very hard to come by and are just as valuable, if not more, as they are very rare.

I agree that Sutter is probably not worth the money now but really that doesn't matter at this point as the contract has already been signed. The question is whether he can still be useful to the team and add a piece which is missing. He is definitely better then some of the plugs we have had to endure over the past few years for sure.

He is not "high end" by any stretch of the imagination but I think he still is a missing piece who can fill a spot when he is healthy. I think if we can see 4 lines rolling along and being effective in the defense and offense departments, we will long forget this argument of whether Sutter is a shutdown center or not.

[EdgarM]

7 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

 

The Sedins are great players quit crying about them. 

Not crying Dude I am actually laughing. Laughing because they are finally off this team and a NEW Era has begun.   I really Can't wait for this season to start already.

[canuck73_3]

Just now, EdgarM said:

Not crying Dude I am actually laughing. Laughing because they are finally off this team and a NEW Era has begun.   I really Can't wait for this season to start already.

Grow up, they were great players and there is a reason no one agrees with your piss poor take on the Sedins because it is flat out wrong and stupid. Period. 

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Grow up, they were great players and there is a reason no one agrees with your piss poor take on the Sedins because it is flat out wrong and stupid. Period. 

I am not arguing that they were not great players just not my type of player I get real excited about. I like fast, hard hitting hockey with players who play on the edge. I like players who can hit, who can take a hit, who can score in shootouts and who can occasionally blast a slapshot past a goalie. The odd breakaway is pretty cool too. I like to see a Hockey player who will FIGHT BACK when the opposing players pick a fight with them. I like to see a player who will stick up for their team mates and who will do anything to win a game.

Yes the cycle game and the unbelievable tape to tape passing was a beauty to see but I kind of want to see the entire package.

Watch what Petey ends up to be. He will be like them AND THEN SOME.

Its not "wrong and stupid" just because we all don't think like you. Other people have different opinions, go figure.

[canuck73_3]

Just now, EdgarM said:

I am not arguing that they were not great players just not my type of player I get real excited about. I like fast, hard hitting hockey with players who play on the edge. I like players who can hit, who can take a hit, who can score in shootouts and who can occasionally blast a slapshot past a goalie. The odd breakaway is pretty cool too. I like to see a Hockey player who will FIGHT BACK when the opposing players pick a fight with them. I like to see a player who will stick up for their team mates and who will do anything to win a game.

Yes the cycle game and the unbelievable tape to tape passing was a beauty to see but I kind of want to see the entire package.

Watch what Petey ends up to be. He will be like them AND THEN SOME.

Its not "wrong and stupid" just because we all don't think like you. Other people have different opinions, go figure.

Sorry man, but repeated posts of crap like this

 

23 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Not crying Dude I am actually laughing. Laughing because they are finally off this team and a NEW Era has begun.   I really Can't wait for this season to start already.

IS stupid. 

 

They retired, they were great players. Let it go move on and shut up about it. Being this ignorant and disrespectful to the 2 best players to ever play for a franchise is stupid. Not an opinion, it's a fact. 

[EdgarM]

27 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Sorry man, but repeated posts of crap like this

 

IS stupid. 

 

They retired, they were great players. Let it go move on and shut up about it. Being this ignorant and disrespectful to the 2 best players to ever play for a franchise is stupid. Not an opinion, it's a fact. 

Again YOUR OPINION get over it already, I am .  ....and please stop repeating yourself OK go take a chill pill.

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, EdgarM said:

Again YOUR OPINION get over it already, I am .  ....and please stop repeating yourself OK go take a chill pill.

Irony coming from you still whining about the Sedins over a year after they retired. 

 

If you don't want to answer for stupid posts, don't make stupid posts.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Irony coming from you still whining about the Sedins over a year after they retired. 

 

If you don't want to answer for stupid posts, don't make stupid posts.

 

[Baggins]

3 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Excuses are for losers.

The mantra of the head in the sand folk....

 

[Jetliner]

he's not a shutdown centre. he is a foundational centre

[samurai]

22 hours ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

'Bono' went onto win two cups after leaving us. He's a great 3C we just played him as a 2C due to lack of depth. Either Richardson or Bonino would have been better for us, both production and cap wise. But hindsight 20/20.

hindsight for the management, but not some of the fans.  

[oldnews]

Since the discussion appears to have morphed into Leafs/Bruins.....

 

'John Tavares is not a shutdown centerz!'

 

[Now that might actually be an interesting article, as opposed to the pitb pablum.]

 

 

36.7% ozone starts in the playoffs (46.4% corsi = very similar small sample results to Sutter's last year- 31.0 and 41.3).

 

Tavares was -5 in 7 games with that kind of deployment.

More than 10 on-ice goals against at even strength in one series.

Over 5 on ice goals against at 5 on 5 per 60 = got rekt.

 

11.0 million franchise center - converted to shutdown center (because Dubas doesn't know how to build a hockey team) = becomes a cap dumpz!

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by oldnews

[189lb enforcers?]

23 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Not crying Dude I am actually laughing. Laughing because they are finally off this team and a NEW Era has begun.   I really Can't wait for this season to start already.

High &^@#ing five, man! 

 

The gentleman era is over, as will be the abuse victim culture as a team identity. 

Looks like we got our way in the end with a brand made for our preferences. 

 

Nissy and Sedin hockey is over. 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

23 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Grow up, they were great players and there is a reason no one agrees with your piss poor take on the Sedins because it is flat out wrong and stupid. Period. 

I agree and I’m not stoopid. 

[Baggins]

20 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

High &^@#ing five, man! 

 

The gentleman era is over, as will be the abuse victim culture as a team identity. 

Looks like we got our way in the end with a brand made for our preferences. 

 

Nissy and Sedin hockey is over. 

 

Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Rome, Lapierre, Torres, Glass, Hansen, Alberts, Higgins.... bunch of gentlemenly victims indeed. Of course AV's matra in that season was discipline... let the other team take the penalties. Who listens to the coach though?

[kingofsurrey]

39 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Rome, Lapierre, Torres, Glass, Hansen, Alberts, Higgins.... bunch of gentlemenly victims indeed. Of course AV's matra in that season was discipline... let the other team take the penalties. Who listens to the coach though?

How did that mantra work for us in 2011 in the finals....

 

Great teams can adjust their style of play as needed......   

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

How did that mantra work for us in 2011 in the finals....

 

Great teams can adjust their style of play as needed......   

It doesn't change the fact there was toughness on the team. The problem was far too many key injuries. Not mention the laxest reffing I've seen. Frankly I'm impressed they took it to 7 games. I don't really see what they could have adjusted, Thomas set a record for saves in a final series. We out shot them and out hit them in game 7. What really sums the series up is too many injuries and a hot goalie. It had nothing to do with team toughness.