The DumbBrexit / #Wexit thread

[JM_]

43 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I don't agree with many of your positions Jimmy but I will agree that it is up to Kenney now. The Dippers he replaced were willing to tread water but Kenney will not have that excuse. TMX will come no where close to solving AB's problems. Unlike you I think AB has every right to be upset and willing to look at their options.  

they need to be upset at themselves. Harper, ABs PM, shat the bed when it came to pipeline policy. If you want to lay blame for 10 years of failed effort, thats the best place to start. 

[JM_]

39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

How come we don't already have oil/gas pipelines all over our country?  These should have been the primary infrastructure jobs long ago.  Build for tomorrow, right?  

we do have pipelines all over our country 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

Wonder how Kenny will spin this?

 

CBC article link

 

Trans Mountain to start construction on pipeline expansion after years of delay

[JM_]

33 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Wonder how Kenny will spin this?

 

CBC article link

 

Trans Mountain to start construction on pipeline expansion after years of delay

he will claim it was his pressure that made this happen 

[langlands]

So the pipeline construction is finally going to start. It's good and I think it will calm a lot of nerves in Alberta. I'm also quite satisfied to see so many (most) of BCers are supportive of it, including posters on CDC. It is too bad energy east and gateway couldnt be approved so the whole country could flourish, but this small move will keep the status quo, which is not terrible.

[Warhippy]

3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I don't agree with many of your positions Jimmy but I will agree that it is up to Kenney now. The Dippers he replaced were willing to tread water but Kenney will not have that excuse. TMX will come no where close to solving AB's problems. Unlike you I think AB has every right to be upset and willing to look at their options.  

Just curious

 

While they have every right to be upset.  how much of the issue they're upset at do you attribute to being their own fault?  or is it everyone else's?

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

they need to be upset at themselves. Harper, ABs PM, shat the bed when it came to pipeline policy. If you want to lay blame for 10 years of failed effort, thats the best place to start. 

That's a HUGE thing people forget

 

10 years of Harper

16 years of business happy Libs in BC

45+ years of Cons in Alberta

 

But how many pipelines got built in the last decade prior to Trudeau?

 

Like none...

 

Without of course mentioning again the NEP which would have addressed literally all of this

[JM_]

Just now, Warhippy said:

That's a HUGE thing people forget

 

10 years of Harper

16 years of business happy Libs in BC

45+ years of Cons in Alberta

 

But how many pipelines got built in the last decade prior to Trudeau?

 

Like none...

 

Without of course mentioning again the NEP which would have addressed literally all of this

its good not to mention the NEP, that Forsberg dude gets the agita when thats brought up 

 

its a bad joke, Justin Trudeau is and will always be hated by Alberta but he's the guy thats going to get them to tidewater. 

 

[TheAce]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's a HUGE thing people forget

 

10 years of Harper

16 years of business happy Libs in BC

45+ years of Cons in Alberta

 

But how many pipelines got built in the last decade prior to Trudeau?

 

Like none...

 

Without of course mentioning again the NEP which would have addressed literally all of this

I dont think it was much of a concern to most people because oil prices were good and business was rolling. Like anything, people only notice when things start to go bad. While I agree JT is getting some wrongful blame he didnt help himself out by giving speeches talking about killing the oil and gas sector in Canada.

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, TheAce said:

I dont think it was much of a concern to most people because oil prices were good and business was rolling. Like anything, people only notice when things start to go bad. While I agree JT is getting some wrongful blame he didnt help himself out by giving speeches talking about killing the oil and gas sector in Canada.

Oh he's an idiot.  He's not helping much

[aGENT]

 

[kingofsurrey]

On 12/3/2019 at 11:37 AM, Boudrias said:

I don't agree with many of your positions Jimmy but I will agree that it is up to Kenney now. The Dippers he replaced were willing to tread water but Kenney will not have that excuse. TMX will come no where close to solving AB's problems. Unlike you I think AB has every right to be upset and willing to look at their options.  

Alberta / Albertans are like the fat kid that lives 4 blocks from me...  he blames  random neighbours for his weight problem  / eating issues.

 

Albertans need to start to accept responsibility for their mismanagement of their province/Alberta  and its resources......

It is a tradegy how poorly managed Alberta has been over the last 25 years...........

[Ryan Strome]

On 12/3/2019 at 4:17 PM, Warhippy said:

That's a HUGE thing people forget

 

10 years of Harper

16 years of business happy Libs in BC

45+ years of Cons in Alberta

 

But how many pipelines got built in the last decade prior to Trudeau?

 

Like none...

 

Without of course mentioning again the NEP which would have addressed literally all of this

Actually this is wrong. Pipelines were built just not to the ocean. At that time oil prices were through the roof so in usual Canadian fashion everyone was alright selling it at a discount because money was still good. Harper was pretty useless but he did have a plan (a plan) to turn Canada into an energy superpower. 

[Boudrias]

On 12/3/2019 at 1:21 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

they need to be upset at themselves. Harper, ABs PM, shat the bed when it came to pipeline policy. If you want to lay blame for 10 years of failed effort, thats the best place to start. 

Harper was treading water on the pipelines. The NEB was doing their thing and Harper was pandering to eastern interests. Harper was out in 2015 so I'm not sure what pipelines were initiated in 2005. He was respecting the NEB process and court challenges. I suspect if re-elected he would have over rode delays by declaring 'in the national interest' just as the Liebels are likely to do. 

 

What upsets me is Harper treading water and not being able to explain to Canadians the tax losses the government purse would experience if these projects did not proceed. Put the numbers on the table and then have a debate about the pros & cons. Potential losses versus gains. What benefits could the government deliver for the taxes they would receive versus the actual threat that environmentalists talk about. Perhaps a discussion about Canada's global role as a  cleaner energy producer. IMHO in geopolitical terms Canada has been played by the Americans, Chinese and Russians and lost big time. Canada is operated like a banana republic and our politicians have failed us miserably.     

[Boudrias]

13 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Alberta / Albertans are like the fat kid that lives 4 blocks from me...  he blames  random neighbours for his weight problem  / eating issues.

 

Albertans need to start to accept responsibility for their mismanagement of their province/Alberta  and its resources......

It is a tradegy how poorly managed Alberta has been over the last 25 years...........

I can agree with you that Alberta could have been ran better. Without going into the financial details the province has the highest per capita spending in the country and has had for many years. I am sure those governments would defend that spending based on the growth of the energy industry and the 'millions' of people who moved to Alberta. This entailed not just the infrastructure supporting energy development but also the massive growth of urban centers across Alberta. 

 

My criticism of AB politicians would be their long term vision. The province was exploiting energy reserves with long reserve life. Instead of taking the approach that Norway did, although they started the Heritage Fund, it was like there would never be an end. Oil & gas is a non renewable resource that is subject to global influences. IMHO Alberta should have been far more aggressive about the amount of money leaving the province to fund federal government programs. Albertans needed to know the numbers and make decisions from that. Resources are owned by the province not the feds.   

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Harper was treading water on the pipelines. The NEB was doing their thing and Harper was pandering to eastern interests. Harper was out in 2015 so I'm not sure what pipelines were initiated in 2005. He was respecting the NEB process and court challenges. I suspect if re-elected he would have over rode delays by declaring 'in the national interest' just as the Liebels are likely to do. 

 

What upsets me is Harper treading water and not being able to explain to Canadians the tax losses the government purse would experience if these projects did not proceed. Put the numbers on the table and then have a debate about the pros & cons. Potential losses versus gains. What benefits could the government deliver for the taxes they would receive versus the actual threat that environmentalists talk about. Perhaps a discussion about Canada's global role as a  cleaner energy producer. IMHO in geopolitical terms Canada has been played by the Americans, Chinese and Russians and lost big time. Canada is operated like a banana republic and our politicians have failed us miserably.     

not surprisingly I disagree with most of that  (which is why I enjoy debating these things with you and @Ryan Strome). 

 

Harper didn't respect the process at all imo. His plan may in fact have been to invoke the notwithstanding clause upon 2015 re-eleciton, which wasn't much of a plan at all. His government was in bed with the oil companies (the lobbying record proves that), and they moved together hand in hand pretty much completely ignoring both first nations issues and municipal rights. Together they utterly crapped the bed and left both these groups with little recourse but to push back in the courts. If you go back and look at what the mayors in Quebec said about energy east, e.g., you can see the terrible job Trans Canada did in getting support. The mayor of Quebec City actually supported the idea of EE (you never hear that now do you?) but slammed TC for their terrible job in securing support for the project (https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/quebec-city-mayor-supports-energy-east-pipeline-but-blasts-incompetent-transcanada-corp). Thats on Harper for creating an environment where companies assumed projects were a slam dunk. 

 

The US, Russia, etc. had nothing to do with any of this. The majority of blame of the pipeline failures is on Harper and his terrible approach to the file. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

not surprisingly I disagree with most of that  (which is why I enjoy debating these things with you and @Ryan Strome). 

 

Harper didn't respect the process at all imo. His plan may in fact have been to invoke the notwithstanding clause upon 2015 re-eleciton, which wasn't much of a plan at all. His government was in bed with the oil companies (the lobbying record proves that), and they moved together hand in hand pretty much completely ignoring both first nations issues and municipal rights. Together they utterly crapped the bed and left both these groups with little recourse but to push back in the courts. If you go back and look at what the mayors in Quebec said about energy east, e.g., you can see the terrible job Trans Canada did in getting support. The mayor of Quebec City actually supported the idea of EE (you never hear that now do you?) but slammed TC for their terrible job in securing support for the project (https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/quebec-city-mayor-supports-energy-east-pipeline-but-blasts-incompetent-transcanada-corp). Thats on Harper for creating an environment where companies assumed projects were a slam dunk. 

 

The US, Russia, etc. had nothing to do with any of this. The majority of blame of the pipeline failures is on Harper and his terrible approach to the file. 

 

 

 

 

 

His plan was to make Canada a energy superpower overnight. Right idea wrong approach. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

His plan was to make Canada a energy superpower overnight. Right idea wrong approach. 

if that was really his plan then he should have declared an energy corridor in the national interest back in 2006. Instead he diddled around with the companies and did just about everything wrong. 

 

I still think I've got the right idea on EE - fund it initially via federal funds, then give 50% Quebec /  50% first nations ownership and that thing gets done next year. 

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

if that was really his plan then he should have declared an energy corridor in the national interest back in 2006. Instead he diddled around with the companies and did just about everything wrong. 

 

I still think I've got the right idea on EE - fund it initially via federal funds, then give 50% Quebec /  50% first nations ownership and that thing gets done next year. 

Yup I agreed with you on that already. 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Yup I agreed with you on that already. 

I know, i just never get tired of slamming Harper  biggest mistake people made was mistaking him for a fiscal conservative. 

 

Any buzz over the Teck project possibly getting approved? seems like they've done that one right getting first nations on board (other than Kenney who seems set of &^@#ing it up somehow).