[PGT] Montreal Canadiens at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 17, 2019

[canuktravella]

11 hours ago, gameburn said:

I wish you had some say somewhere.  Too many pluggers on this team  Tanev and Stecher (and now Benn) -- all skate as far as they can with it, then give up and shoot at the goalie with no screen, no chance of deflection, even less chance of scoring outright.  Team needs an identity, and I think you have hit upon an option: think puck control and creativity. 

 ya no reason the systems cant have petey or virtanen or hughes skate puck deep and make some  passses and shots 

[canuck2288]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Is it though?  Do we even have the troops to try a better method?  EP and BB were getting owned before Miller was added to their line and they changed their approach....Bo Horvat - well 9/10 when he goes "full bull" and tries to skate it in on his own he gets by one and then keeps trying to go all the way and loses the puck.   Maybe if they worked on set plays it could work.   I'm not saying they shouldn't make some adjustments,  because they should, but also keep playing to our strengths too - which actually happens to be size and well strength.    This team IS built for dump and chase (snooze) for the most part.

 

Would be nice to see EP and Hughes given more freedom though...but will also have to be prepared for more odd man rushes coming back too.   Careful for what you wish for ... Bear and Goldobin in ..... Leivo and whom out?

If we were build for dump and chase it would show in puck recovery, it isn’t 

 

we don’t have fast big body guys, Miller is by far the best example of what you need for dump and chase 

 

we need adjustments and that’s on Green 

[mll]

9 hours ago, Timbermen said:

Sounds like gas lightning from Stamkos, TB has some of the worst ice in the league. 

From Drance's game report in the Athletic:

"Pettersson mentioned the ice surface, something Canadiens players echoed at length postgame. Nick Cousins and Tomas Tatar mentioned it on separate occasions. Max Domi said they had to simplify their game offensively because of how bad it was."

 

[appleboy]

I am not in on the fire Green club just yet. I think fans are rushing the rebuild a little. I see the problem being that A) This young club has not quite geld yet and has a little maturing to do. B ) We are still a little weak on the back end. The loss of Edler has hurt which shows that we are still quite thin back there. We lack a real solid shut down defense-man. I like Myers but a shut down guy he is not. Both Myers and Hughes have improved the offensive flow . Maybe Tryamkin is the guy? 

I don't think this club is done building yet. Still some pieces missing. I would ride Green until all the pieces are in place. 

[-DLC-]

13 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

Was a ridiculous interview imo. To chalk games up to puck luck is laughable.

 

he credits Gaudette yet plasters his butt to bench with his net empty and he plays Leivo

 

green takes zero personal responsibility for his pathetic coaching and his putrid special teams 

 

why didn’t he address the fact he plays with zero o system and resorts to minor league unsuccessful dump and chase plays 

 

the defensive zone play is a complete gong show 

 

but let’s stay “optimistic” translation.... don’t fire me 

 

we will just go out and do more of the same and hopefully the hockey gods will turn things around for us - green 

 

 

 

 

 

That's your take on it.  Impatient, reactionary.

 

He didn't attribute all losses to puck luck...said sometimes bad ice/bounces make it look like they're lacking confidence.  The comment wasn't to make excuses for losses but, more, to speak to confidence (which he was asked about) and how it can be translated incorrectly from the stands/TV.  That there sometimes are things contributing to missed passes and being off that we automatically assume are player error and being tentative/unsure.

He's taking his time with Gaudette and I'd argue it's working?  The fact that he's finding success/scoring?

 

He did touch on dumping the puck in and why.  That carrying the puck is a bit more risky in that if it's turned over it can quickly go the other way.  They dump and chase and focus on forechecking and keeping the puck in the offensive zone as much as possible.  It isn't as pretty or jawdropping but they clearly want to keep the puck out of our end...maybe they do see that the d needs work/help?  So maybe the "complete gong show" you speak of is part of why they try to avoid the puck being in their end?  

 

And we're missing a key d man so he did explain that putting extra pressure on others (Quinn mostly) means mistakes at times.  But they're trying to keep it in perspective and seem to have a more long term focus in mind too.  That they're allowing a margin for error in order to keep Quinn  (Petey, etc.) confident and understanding that they do wear down at times.

 

Mostly that they're being patient and not reacting to losses that could be wins.  They're not blowouts.

 

More of the same means not making major adjustments when it's likely just fine tuning and allowing for growth and improvement.  

[riffraff]

9 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I totally get your point

But if they statistically can't do it

then it will be dump and chase

or we lose more often then not

but I would also like to see more carry in's

but not everyone can pull it off

that is the problem

Personally, I think it will take some time

to figure which one can and can not

This is why there has to be correct lines.

 

imo I see no reason why any combo of petey bo brock ferland gaudette Pearson or evening Jake has to play dump and chase.

 

the rest I would understand, at times, so long as there is actually a heavy forecheck. 

[smithers joe]

i look at all the things that annoy me about our play and to me, most of the blame lies on the players. i’m not saying green is correct 100% of the time but most of my concerns  point their fingers elsewhere. i admit the dump and chase is only effective when we get in fast and recover the puck. but only the coaches know how successful the team is skating the puck in.

imo, missed passes, getting hemmed in their own zone, missing shots on goal and stick checking vs using the body are more personnel faults. 

blame can be spread out from top to bottom. 

we all get frustrated over some games, but if the players completed more passes or take the body more, especially in our own zone, we may not be talking about a change in coaches. 

 

[smithers joe]

as i see it, we all have concerns and point fingers, but i say, let the hockey minds figure what needs to be fixed. 

[-DLC-]

Some won't accept Green's explanations as they feel he's trying to save his job.

 

So here's Burkie's take on things from this morning.  And he doesn't HAVE to be a homer...as a matter of fact, he could highlight his greatness by throwing this group of coaches/GM under the bus to stroke his ego.  But:

 

He says he watches the Canucks regularly.  Follows closely.

 

He actually smirked at the panic...called it amusing and absurd.

 

Said that some see Petey and Quinn do amazing things then expect that to carry over for 60 minutes a game, 82 games a season.  It's not rational or realistic and sets the bar too high.  That this is a good hockey team that mostly just needs to be more consistent...that they're playing 40-45 minutes of really good hockey but that it leaves the door open for a team to sneak in and go ahead if after 4-5 minutes of sustained good play they let down.  That it has to be a full 60 minutes.

 

But he doesn't "blame" Travis and understands his mindset that this is a good group and that Travis believes in them and is helping make sure they believe in themselves and the process.  That they have to carry the play.

 

He also says this market is tough because the STH and long time fans clocks are set differently than the actual team/roster clock.  That the impatience is attributed to that and so he understands it.  But the team is still a young group and the issue also lies in that if you drop 3 games in a row another team may run hot and take you over in the standings..that it's volatile.  

 

He said he doesn't feel JB or TG's jobs are in jeopardy...that JB just got an extension and has been doing a great job and that Travis knows the group he's got and does believe in them.  That it's a matter of being patient.

 

Also said it's not nearly as easy as people think in this day and age to tweak a line up...that if you're near the cap that it's extremely difficult.

 

Burke's a great hockey mind so the fact that he actually chuckled at the sky is falling stuff reassured me that it's not just Homervision.  Especially considering that the market here often does scream for heads to roll in a neverending theme.  But maybe that isn't always the answer and it's too premature at this point?  Seems the actual NHL hockey guys support that, so I do too.

[Timråfan]

53 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

i look at all the things that annoy me about our play and to me, most of the blame lies on the players. i’m not saying green is correct 100% of the time but most of my concerns  point their fingers elsewhere. i admit the dump and chase is only effective when we get in fast and recover the puck. but only the coaches know how successful the team is skating the puck in.

imo, missed passes, getting hemmed in their own zone, missing shots on goal and stick checking vs using the body are more personnel faults. 

blame can be spread out from top to bottom. 

we all get frustrated over some games, but if the players completed more passes or take the body more, especially in our own zone, we may not be talking about a change in coaches. 

 

I assume Green lean heavily on statistics. But, it demands an intelligent mind to read them right and a out of the box mind to not bother about statistic. There is so much under the surface in statistics so it's really hard to compare teams. 

 

What I mean is that the burdon/responsibilty lay on Greens shoulders. Not the players... It's Greens job to get the players out of frustration. 

Even if it isn't Greens fault a change in scenery can be really good. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Timråfan

[Timbermen]

7 hours ago, mll said:

From Drance's game report in the Athletic:

"Pettersson mentioned the ice surface, something Canadiens players echoed at length postgame. Nick Cousins and Tomas Tatar mentioned it on separate occasions. Max Domi said they had to simplify their game offensively because of how bad it was."

 

Wow, i'm really surprised by that. There isn't a basketball team so why can't they maintain the ice? They spend about $80 million on player salary's but can't pay someone that knows how to make ice? They are hurting their own skilled players.

[-DLC-]

 

[Timbermen]

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

He's quickly becoming a leader on this team. He's turning the corner, he'll be even better next year. 

[canuck2288]

10 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

That's your take on it.  Impatient, reactionary.

 

He didn't attribute all losses to puck luck...said sometimes bad ice/bounces make it look like they're lacking confidence.  The comment wasn't to make excuses for losses but, more, to speak to confidence (which he was asked about) and how it can be translated incorrectly from the stands/TV.  That there sometimes are things contributing to missed passes and being off that we automatically assume are player error and being tentative/unsure.

He's taking his time with Gaudette and I'd argue it's working?  The fact that he's finding success/scoring?

 

He did touch on dumping the puck in and why.  That carrying the puck is a bit more risky in that if it's turned over it can quickly go the other way.  They dump and chase and focus on forechecking and keeping the puck in the offensive zone as much as possible.  It isn't as pretty or jawdropping but they clearly want to keep the puck out of our end...maybe they do see that the d needs work/help?  So maybe the "complete gong show" you speak of is part of why they try to avoid the puck being in their end?  

 

And we're missing a key d man so he did explain that putting extra pressure on others (Quinn mostly) means mistakes at times.  But they're trying to keep it in perspective and seem to have a more long term focus in mind too.  That they're allowing a margin for error in order to keep Quinn  (Petey, etc.) confident and understanding that they do wear down at times.

 

Mostly that they're being patient and not reacting to losses that could be wins.  They're not blowouts.

 

More of the same means not making major adjustments when it's likely just fine tuning and allowing for growth and improvement.  

So again it’s somehow ok to lose as long as it’s close and not a blowout? 
 

also this team needs O, you can’t always worry about being scored upon 

 

this is a loser mentality