Kanukfanatic Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 6 hours ago, GritGrinder said: 2016-17: 14-18-3 2015-16: 12-14-9 2014-15: 21-11-3 Between 31-36pts at this point every year for 5 years straight. Thats the most consistent Canuck related stat I've seen in a while. Oh to be coached by a rookie WD again, 21-11-3 would have them 1st in the Pacific, 2nd in the conference just behind StL. right now. Really useful post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbermen Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Green mentioned that the Canucks struggle when the ice is bad. I did notice that the ice was terrible in places like SJ and LA and wondered if that plays into their success. They play better on crappy ice because they are used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMorrison 7 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: Really useful post. Lol now who’s the online di#% ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 hours ago, apollo said: This might be an unpopular opinion... But I'm pretty sure Edler is this teams most valuable player. He's our top minute logger and without him the team has been noticeably worse. Petey is probably our biggest superstar... Followed by The Brock, JT Thriller, QH43 and Captain Bo Billyunz... But Edler just has more impact on total team play. Not only because of his time on ice either. Edler may not be the most important Canuck, but he is certainly one of the most important Canucks. I find those posters saying he is not a top 4 D man to be completely clueless and embarrassing. Honestly, I don't know if they actually watch any NHL games or just come here to post stupid things. Edler is one of the best Canuck D men of all time in fact. You cannot even disputer that. Does he make errors? Of course. Just like EVERY other NHL D man in the league. Excellent post imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said: They're definitely worse without him. Ferland as well, they're a better team with him in the lineup. Maybe they play with more confidence? I think they're leaning on Hughes too much, just enough that he doesn't break, but that's not fair. What the he** is Stecher good for? Sure he tries real hard, but this isn't a trying league. Isn't he su[pposed to be an offensive Dman? How many goals does he have this year? Only 2. In fact, 8 NHL goals total in his career (3.5 years). Unacceptable. I would suggest the teams lack of success is not placed on its 6th D man. The top players need to pick it up. I am certainly no fanboy of Stechers, but he is a solid 3rd pairing D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GritGrinder Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: Really useful post. LMAO...Useful? Is this your first day on a message board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ryan Nugent Hopkins said: Lol now who’s the online di#% ? Uhhh....the coiler fan in the Canuck thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Timbermen said: Green mentioned that the Canucks struggle when the ice is bad. I did notice that the ice was terrible in places like SJ and LA and wondered if that plays into their success. They play better on crappy ice because they are used to it. Last time Tampa was in Vancouver Stamkos said it was the worst ice he had ever played on his whole career. Others haven't gone to that extreme but it's not the first time that opponents have complained of the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, GritGrinder said: LMAO...Useful? Is this your first day on a message board? Look at my posts. Look at yours. Soooooo.......no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GritGrinder Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, Kanukfanatic said: Look at my posts. Look at yours. Soooooo.......no. Has nothing to do with the # of posts. Its more with your clueless notion that I posted something that a total stranger like you would deem "useful". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, GritGrinder said: Has nothing to do with the # of posts. Its more with your clueless notion that I posted something that a total stranger like you would deem "useful". Sorry champ. You asked if I was new. I did not know if you knew how to tell if another poster was new simply by seeing how long posters have been around on here. I didn't know if you were smart enough to figure that out, so just asking. So no, I am not new. So what was the relevance of that post? That Willie was a better coach? If not, please explain for all us new posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbermen Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, mll said: Last time Tampa was in Vancouver Stamkos said it was the worst ice he had ever played on his whole career. Others haven't gone to that extreme but it's not the first time that opponents have complained of the ice. Sounds like gas lightning from Stamkos, TB has some of the worst ice in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: Baer is too soft for the NHL.....as is evident by 30 NHL gms not picking him up for free. $3.36 mil for the next 2 years is not free at all. Especially with most teams already at the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Man I hate comments like that...….have you coached at a professional level Do you have a BA in Analytics? Exactly what makes you so sure of yourself? About Dump ins......read this....if you want to know the answer https://www.thepointhockey.com/dump-ins-a-trend-on-the-rise/ I have played the game and I can tell you dump ind only fit a certain team makeup we are nowhere near the size required to be a dump and chase team, not even close the only players even close would be Miller , Ferland and Jake it ends there you should play the game a lot better than trying to pull an internet link on dump and chase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Buzzsaw* Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 42 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Man I hate comments like that...….have you coached at a professional level Do you have a BA in Analytics? Exactly what makes you so sure of yourself? About Dump ins......read this....if you want to know the answer https://www.thepointhockey.com/dump-ins-a-trend-on-the-rise/ The point this article makes is that Dump and Chase, while a valid option WHEN THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE, is not the first choice. The trouble with Green's system, is there is no other choice... D&C is the first choice. I have yet to see any kind of structured approach to gaining the zone shown by this team. All we see are improvised, mostly single player rushes, which are usually unsuccessful. There has to be a system in place... so to make a very simple example, when the breakout happens, a second player starts after the leading player and the second player expects a drop pass after the first player crosses the blue line... followed by a cut to the center of the ice by the second player. (obviously there are many other options for structuring zone entry which might work better... that is for the coach to determine from assessing his players) I am just not seeing anything like a structured breakout which emphasizes possession. All I see are automatic reliance on dump and chase.... shots from the redline... shots to a player standing at the blueline who deflects it in, etc. etc. Those options should be the last choice, not the first. The example of the Islanders has been brought up... but in fact the Islanders are carrying the puck into the zone more than the Canucks, and scoring at even strength more than the Canucks... even though they as a team emphasize defense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 50 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Man I hate comments like that...….have you coached at a professional level Do you have a BA in Analytics? Exactly what makes you so sure of yourself? About Dump ins......read this....if you want to know the answer https://www.thepointhockey.com/dump-ins-a-trend-on-the-rise/ Great article. Thanks, everyone who has their heads stuck in the mud should read this as it explains both arguments. Some great stuff from Trotz in there. 1 hour ago, riffraff said: Describe what is high risk of losing possession upon ozone entry. If there is high risk of losing possession upon crossing the line then QH needs more help. Read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: I have played the game and I can tell you dump ind only fit a certain team makeup we are nowhere near the size required to be a dump and chase team, not even close the only players even close would be Miller , Ferland and Jake it ends there you should play the game a lot better than trying to pull an internet link on dump and chase 50+ years of playing 12 years of coaching minor hockey and Rep and trust me, I am a no body But your list is way too short...…….Miller, Ferland, Virtanen, Horvat, Pearson, Schaller, Gaudette, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, and Eriksson are a better list for size and speed that could dump and chase...……..do you think this is something new? In the Montreal game both Galigher and Domi, 2 very small guys, execute dump and chase, It is nothing new, and like I said, you should read it. PS...……..I do not particularly think Pettersson needs to nor Hughes, but I do not want to see everyone do it...………...a hybrid is fine with me Edited December 19, 2019 by janisahockeynut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said: I think it comes down to what people believe constitutes a "strategy". The example that was posted about Miller talking to Brock and Petey about the dump and chase really comes down to more of a "don't do anything stupid" suggestion. It doesn't take a Scotty Bowman to realize that keeping the puck in your possession is always going to be preferable when entering the offensive zone. However, doing so when there is a high risk of losing possession is a poor "strategy". In the end, it's all about making the smart play at the time. Sometimes the smart play is "dump it in". As I see it, and I'm not a hockey player, the strategy has more to do with the break out and neutral zone play. I mean, there are multiple ways to break out. The 2 obvious ones for me are the long 2 line breakout pass (which the Canucks seem to use a lot) and all players coming back to support the puck, making short passes and skating the puck down the ice. I get that you have to take what you can get which depends on whether the other team is playing a variation of the trap etc. Is dump and chase really a strategy or something that is done when you can't easily carry the puck in? Doesn't it have a lot to do with puck management? Possession is clearly preferable but so much in hockey is improvised The other thing that I've read here is about the football analogy. You know how Belichek has multiple defensive looks which he throws out there to confound offenses even from play to play. Obviously hockey is not football and changes like that can't be made quickly but there are things that can be done to change a teams approach as the game goes on. The Canucks seem to do pretty well early in the game but by the 2nd half, they do worse. Is this because they are tired or because in game adjustments have been made? I can't believe that Green, who was an NHL player who played 970 games with 7 different teams under many good coaches doesn't get some of this nuance. I mean, I'm a lay person, none of it should be that subtle or difficult for a player to deal with who has made it all the way to the NHL. Players do have to take some of the responsibility for poor execution. Elliotte Friedman reminded us the other day on 650 that Green has been groomed by the Canucks to be the coach. He coached in Utica for 4 seasons and is on his 3rd with Vancouver. Ok, now that he has a team with some talent on paper and some expectations, things are going sideways. But look, they have invested years on the guy, you don't just chuck him out when adversity strikes. He needs feedback, and a chance to make corrections. It is foolish to panic and reject years of development of this coach without giving him a fair chance. Feedback, criticism, and a chance to learn and make corrections and adjustments. If Green does get fired, I wouldn't expect it to happen until the off season at least. A short Christmas break is coming up when the Canucks typically take stock. Management and ownership do a review I think. Green and others need a chance to figure out how to take this team to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: 50+ years of playing 12 years of coaching minor hockey and Rep and trust me, I am a no body But your list is way too short...…….Miller, Ferland, Virtanen, Horvat, Pearson, Schaller, Gaudette, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, and Eriksson are a better list for size and speed that could dump and chase...……..do you think this is something new? In the Montreal game both Galigher and Domi, 2 very small guys, execute dump and chase, It is nothing new, and like I said, you should read it. PS...……..I do not particularly think Pettersson needs to nor Hughes, but I do not want to see everyone do it...………...a hybrid is fine with me Have you even bothered to look at our dump vs possession rate? schaller, Pearson , beagle and Sutter are not fast and big enough to get possession bo is in a major funk, would not he surprised if he has some injury. He is not winning any puck battles these last 5 games our results do not reflect your list at all dump in chase does not for our roster so frankly it’s no surprise it’s failing miserably green refuses to set line by line game plans that match our players strong points. EP’s line is being forced to dump in when there is no chance EP or Brock is going to knock a d man off the puck. That line should be uptempo 100 percent but Green continues to throttle them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Kanukfanatic said: You dont think Edler is a top 4 D? Ok....enough said about your ability to judge talent. Never said it was about talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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