(discussion) trade values

[canuktravella]

pearson was on pace for 54 regular season points in full yr  but no showed in last round of playoffs 

 

benning could use cap dump to help resign marky and toffoli  and gain another asset in draft 

value late 1st or high 2nd rounder 

 

virtanen   definate nhler  20 goals 19 assists  great season but coach and him not compatible has great advanced stats and is under utilized by green  

 

value late 1st early 2nd or a decent defensive prospect 

 

demko  had a monster playoffs  lots of teams would want him as their future number 1 

 

 will a team like sabres or detroit offer up a top ten draft pick for this kid  if so we run with it we need a young potential 1st pair dman 

 

by 21-22 season  podzolkin and hoglander will be sniping it up in our top six  

 

miller petey boeser

hoglander horvat podzolkin

macewen gaudette toffoli 

[nux4lyfe]

I'd keep Virt, Like I stated before, Power forwards take longer to develop. Let him grow.

 

Let Marky walk and save some money by signing Demko..Yrs younger with his best days ahead.

 

Drive Loui to the airport.

 

That's all.

[JM_]

imo any previous ideas of trade value are out the window this year with the flat cap, internal caps and covid losses. 

 

For the Canucks, I don't see much happening on trades, maybe Jake for a depth defensemen. 

[Fanuck]

The new 'covid economy' means historic trade values are irrelevant now.

I believe there will be a focus by GM's on players who offer much higher 'bang-for-buck' performance (Motte type players who people generally agree earn all of their salary and then some) versus high-priced, big-name players who may or may not earn all of their salary all of the time as teams simply cannot afford this type of luxury player anymore. 

 

This off-season could literally make or break some teams financially for the next few years depending on how things evolve in the global economic landscape - that is why we keep hearing of this 'internal cap' put in place by some owners/GM's.  I think there will be noticeable moves by GM's intended to simply survive/outlast this economic hurdle versus in the past where there were teams ready, willing, and able to go 'all in' for the win. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Robert Long said:

imo any previous ideas of trade value are out the window this year with the flat cap, internal caps and covid losses. 

 

For the Canucks, I don't see much happening on trades, maybe Jake for a depth defensemen. 

Demko has value.  Boston is thin on LW... don’t know who JB was “fielding calls” from after we were out but do know you should strike iron while its hot so sure it’s Demko Demko Demko Demko, Motte, Motte, Motte and maybe a couple tire kicks on Pearson plus JV.  

[IBatch]

46 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

The new 'covid economy' means historic trade values are irrelevant now.

I believe there will be a focus by GM's on players who offer much higher 'bang-for-buck' performance (Motte type players who people generally agree earn all of their salary and then some) versus high-priced, big-name players who may or may not earn all of their salary all of the time as teams simply cannot afford this type of luxury player anymore. 

 

This off-season could literally make or break some teams financially for the next few years depending on how things evolve in the global economic landscape - that is why we keep hearing of this 'internal cap' put in place by some owners/GM's.  I think there will be noticeable moves by GM's intended to simply survive/outlast this economic hurdle versus in the past where there were teams ready, willing, and able to go 'all in' for the win. 

According to Bettman the ownership has never been stronger.   Nice to have money and buy a whole bunch more up under the circumstances so wouldn’t worry about them.   They can absolutely afford to pay 50% of the players salaries and in the end will look like Angels when in fact they are devils.   Lived through enough of these “cycles” to know richy rich people just get richer off the backs of everyone’s hard work each time it happens and this is just a bonus round for them. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Robert Long said:

imo any previous ideas of trade value are out the window this year with the flat cap, internal caps and covid losses. 

 

For the Canucks, I don't see much happening on trades, maybe Jake for a depth defensemen. 

Covid might be our secret weapon.  Same with a lot of other teams.  No season?  Well ha ha one more year burned off.    Really even if it didn’t happen still think JB shouldn’t be spender Jim this off season.  Rather a tight wad MOFO.   Just one more reason to let it all slide into the following season - find a Luke Schenn and a Leivo type and say bye bye to the rest. 

[garthsbutcher]

2 hours ago, nux4lyfe said:

I'd keep Virt, Like I stated before, Power forwards take longer to develop. Let him grow.

 

Let Marky walk and save some money by signing Demko..Yrs younger with his best days ahead.

 

Drive Loui to the airport.

 

That's all.

How much longer do you want to wait on Jake, when you dont think the game well and dont care enough about your team to come to camp in shape, its mental, adios.

[IBatch]

41 minutes ago, garthsbutcher said:

How much longer do you want to wait on Jake, when you dont think the game well and dont care enough about your team to come to camp in shape, its mental, adios.

Dobber just goes by the numbers and figures JV deserves to be paid 4.3ish on a long term deal.  I doubt many fans would be happy about that but that how he stacks up with the rest of the league. Something tells me he’d rest on his laurels and enjoy the paycheque.  Trust in TG tiny little bit of tough love.   The eye test just doesn’t match up with that. Motte is deserving of his spot on the other side IMO.   Still like the guy and wish him the best - but at some point maybe a change in scenery is better for both parties.   This was his contract year after all - he’s no Cam Neely and never will be. 

[Lazurus]

3 hours ago, canuktravella said:

pearson was on pace for 54 regular season points in full yr  but no showed in last round of playoffs 

 

benning could use cap dump to help resign marky and toffoli  and gain another asset in draft 

value late 1st or high 2nd rounder 

 

virtanen   definate nhler  20 goals 19 assists  great season but coach and him not compatible has great advanced stats and is under utilized by green  

 

value late 1st early 2nd or a decent defensive prospect 

 

demko  had a monster playoffs  lots of teams would want him as their future number 1 

 

 will a team like sabres or detroit offer up a top ten draft pick for this kid  if so we run with it we need a young potential 1st pair dman 

 

by 21-22 season  podzolkin and hoglander will be sniping it up in our top six  

 

miller petey boeser

hoglander horvat podzolkin

macewen gaudette toffoli 

The idea is, or at least was, to get younger and improve the team, get them into a playoff spot before keeping the same guys year after year. 4 younger players isn't enough

Edited September 23, 2020 by Lazurus

[JM_]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Demko has value.  Boston is thin on LW... don’t know who JB was “fielding calls” from after we were out but do know you should strike iron while its hot so sure it’s Demko Demko Demko Demko, Motte, Motte, Motte and maybe a couple tire kicks on Pearson plus JV.  

I'd be OK with moving Pearson out. 

 

I know they have value but I just feel like traditional thinking is out the window a bit this year. So much is dependent on internal caps, etc. that we aren't aware of. 

[IBatch]

37 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

I'd be OK with moving Pearson out. 

 

I know they have value but I just feel like traditional thinking is out the window a bit this year. So much is dependent on internal caps, etc. that we aren't aware of. 

Sigh.   Yes it’s strange times right now.   From Bettemans remarks this week “the ownership group has never been stronger”  taken at face value they don’t at all seemed concerned about handing out huge paycheques with 50% or less revenue coming in.    I’m sure a few owners are feeling a little pinched ... that said housing prices in Canada have gone up an average of 18% this year .... so Aqua shouldn’t have any issues writing his cheque’s as usual.  
 

That said   Cash flow is king in times like these and if it  becomes a problem all they have to do is activate a clause in their CBA which includes a pandemic.   Doubt things will get even close to that though, instead they will gain a lot of leverage over their hockey players escrow wise and respect wise for keeping their pay cheque’s coming even at 50% for doing absolutely nothing if it comes to that.  
 

The owners already took them to the cleaners in the lockout year, then rolled them back the next time to 50%.   As a result they have all the cost certainty they need to keep the ship floating - season next year or not.    I do hope at one point fans at least boo Bettman with some love in their hearts - this guy for sure saved the league from possibly going under without the systems they have in place.   Also - curious - will the media have fake boo’s ready to go when he gives the cup out a week or so from now? 

[JM_]

41 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Sigh.   Yes it’s strange times right now.   From Bettemans remarks this week “the ownership group has never been stronger”  taken at face value they don’t at all seemed concerned about handing out huge paycheques with 50% or less revenue coming in.    I’m sure a few owners are feeling a little pinched ... that said housing prices in Canada have gone up an average of 18% this year .... so Aqua shouldn’t have any issues writing his cheque’s as usual.  
 

That said   Cash flow is king in times like these and if it  becomes a problem all they have to do is activate a clause in their CBA which includes a pandemic.   Doubt things will get even close to that though, instead they will gain a lot of leverage over their hockey players escrow wise and respect wise for keeping their pay cheque’s coming even at 50% for doing absolutely nothing if it comes to that.  
 

The owners already took them to the cleaners in the lockout year, then rolled them back the next time to 50%.   As a result they have all the cost certainty they need to keep the ship floating - season next year or not.    I do hope at one point fans at least boo Bettman with some love in their hearts - this guy for sure saved the league from possibly going under without the systems they have in place.   Also - curious - will the media have fake boo’s ready to go when he gives the cup out a week or so from now? 

I don't begrudge the Aqulini's anything, they were a hard working East Van family that did well. My brother in law used to hand his rent cheque to Francisco way back in the day  I like that he's not being cheap.

 

But other owners.... I think there's some opportunity there. 

[oldnews]

Pearson would be one of the players I'd consider moving if moving LE, Roussel, Benn, Baertschi types proves too costly in assets.

 

Have to weigh the value of a potential return -and the form - against the potential cost of moving alternative cap - or of not signing one of our expiring UFAs.

 

He wouldn't be at the top of the to-do list, but he might wind up an option, possibly even the most realistic/'best' option.

 

Demko and Virtanen - not players I'd be looking to move - and btw - you're probably not getting that kind of return for rights alone to Virtanen = makes more sense to retain imo (unless he can be parlayed into the principal in a deal for a likewise unsigned RFA like Josh Anderson).   Montour might be an alternative I'd be inquiring about.

Edited September 24, 2020 by oldnews

[BigTramFan]

Do you guys think Roussel would be moveable on his own?

 

Or perhaps with something like Stecher or Virtanen's rights? Or both together?

 

Maybe NJD might take a look...they need help on D, in their bottom 6, and could be interested in taking a flyer on a young winger like Virtanen...

[Lazurus]

With a flat cap and reduction in league revenues

 

Eriksson's contract takes a big step forward after his next signing bonus

Sutter's contract w/retention also goes up.

Any contract the Canucks can add retention for older FA's increase in value.

 

Unfortunately Boeser's contract will hamper the team because his next one is guaranteed 8+ mil and it is for too much in a flat cap, if the cap was going up by 5% a year and hockey ops were still making 60+ mil on the gate then no big deal.

 

A Boeser type deal done next year would make a lot of sense, say Pettersson done for 5 years with the last year getting 7.5 in salary.

 

Not only the player's age and skill level are important, the salary and cap structure have increased the make up of a team.

 

[garthsbutcher]

22 hours ago, Robert Long said:

I'd be OK with moving Pearson out. 

 

I know they have value but I just feel like traditional thinking is out the window a bit this year. So much is dependent on internal caps, etc. that we aren't aware of. 

I dont think you will sign TT if they move his buddy out

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, garthsbutcher said:

I dont think you will sign TT if they move his buddy out

hmm.. better get TT signed soon then  

[smithers joe]

18 hours ago, oldnews said:

Pearson would be one of the players I'd consider moving if moving LE, Roussel, Benn, Baertschi types proves too costly in assets.

 

Have to weigh the value of a potential return -and the form - against the potential cost of moving alternative cap - or of not signing one of our expiring UFAs.

 

He wouldn't be at the top of the to-do list, but he might wind up an option, possibly even the most realistic/'best' option.

 

Demko and Virtanen - not players I'd be looking to move - and btw - you're probably not getting that kind of return for rights alone to Virtanen = makes more sense to retain imo (unless he can be parlayed into the principal in a deal for a likewise unsigned RFA like Josh Anderson).   Montour might be an alternative I'd be inquiring about.

carol shram wrote  today that she heard that the canucks and bruins were discussing a trade for virtanen. she hadn’t heard what boston would give up, maybe one of their r dman. 

 

 

[IBatch]

Pearson and JV definitely could give us back a couple seconds.   And of course Demko might even get us a mid first.   
 

Of these guys maybe two could be replaced my moving Motte up and adding McEwen, and Lind given the sink or swim treatment.   Podz for sure could replace JV once he’s available - plays like a solid bottom six/pk guy already.   
 

To me Demko has better value on the club, JV and Pearson all depends on which way the clubs decides to go really.   If we sign TT, JV is probably gone ... if we sign all three then Pearson too.   Need the cap from somewhere and JBs already said no buy-outs, no trading picks prospects to get rid of guys.   You’ve identified the three leading candidates for sure of who might not start this year wearing a Canucks uniform.    Really, if it was me, I’d keep all three and not sign TT or Markstrom (unless he’s ok with a 5.5 x 3 not clause deal - will for sure get better offers). 
 

Edit:  IF we sign all three - and can’t trade JM later or expose him - next years cap is going to be awfully hairy...

Edited September 26, 2020 by IBatch