BigTramFan

Thanks for your comments. Very insightful. In case you are wondering, I'm not obsessed with getting the 1st round pick back from the Miller deal. I am just spit balling ideas around getting some value for expiring assets. This proposal is all about the choice between being as strong a team as possible now (in order to make the first round of the 2020 playoffs) vs. getting some value for expiring assets. I am a bit 50/50 on which is the bigger priority for the Canucks. I think both are valuable. In order to address some of your comments: "Baffling at best"? Haha no I don't think is baffling, it's simply a choice. The "best" outcome would be that the 1st round pick may even be a lottery pick. And please note we would be getting Ceci back to cover for the loss of Stecher (similar level players and both RHD), so we are not exactly losing 2/3 of our RHD. Also Benn and Fantenberg (and reportedly Hughes) are quite comfortable playing RHD. I think this is more to do with the style of play that Green has the Canucks playing than our D being as bad as TOR's D. Each side of a trade must believe that they are benefitting, otherwise the trade doesn't happen. You give up something (harms you) to get something (helps you). So by definition this trade should help TOR and VAN in some way, otherwise they wouldn't do it. It is a matter of deciding what stage each party is at, and what they want help with. I get that the Canucks are pushing for the playoffs and losing Tanev would harm this aim, but the 1st round pick also helps us. Do you believe the value is off? Or is it just the timing? See my comments above. I'm not obsessed. Best that you let that thought that we are all "obsessed with getting 1st round picks" go if you are going to browse the armchair GM section because you will see it pop up quite often. But it is just you that has the wrong idea about who is obsessed. Since TOR are in such a tight cap crunch they are likely at their strongest this season. They are considered cup contenders by some and this trade would help them THIS SEASON. They are unlikely to be drafting 1-10 in 2020 so their 2020 1st is probably going to CAR. Next season TOR are going to have to move some contracts and some higher end pieces. It is most likely that the pick in this proposal to VAN would end up being the 2021 1st. This may well be the better pick since the Leafs could end up tanking in 2020/21 while trying to fix their cap issues. The logic is a bit different to what you suggest - this proposed trade helps TOR in 2019/20 and we likely get a pick based on their 2020/21 performance. More thoughts... please don't freak out... Another proposal was put up yesterday around Martinez. Something like Benn + Brisebois + 3rd for Martinez (50% retained). I liked that proposal and I think it could dovetail nicely into this proposal, as long as no one pulls out the old "Nintendo trade" quote to suggest that two trades can't happen... But switching Benn for Martinez brings in some higher caliber defense that would help to offset the temporary loss of Tanev for this season: Edler Myers Martinez Hughes Fantenberg Ceci Allowing the Nucks to bring Tanev and Tryamkin in next season: Edler Myers Hughes Tanev Martinez Tryamkin (Fantenberg) A good mix of defensive players, size, grit and of course Hughes doing what he does best!

To TOR: Tanev (50% retained), Stecher To VAN: Ceci, 2020 1st (conditional*) * if TOR's 2020 1st goes to Carolina from the Marleau deal, then this pick becomes a 2021 1st + a 2020 7th Reilly and Muzzin are on LTIR. They could be out for another 8 weeks. TOR desperately needs some defensemen in the mean time because they have to stay in the playoff race if they want to be cup contenders this season. They have given away 27 goals in the last 5 games. This deal gives them two Dmen for $4.55m, which is very close to the same cap hit as Ceci $4.5m. Stecher is as good as Ceci, so this is like getting Tanev for no cap hit. This is critical because TOR are in a cap crunch. Tanev and Stech should go a long way to keeping TOR in the playoff race until their injured Dmen return. The deal also doesn't commit either party long term as Tanev and Stecher are UFA and RFA next season. Once Reilly and Muzzin return to the lineup TOR will have the following D lines for the playoffs, which is a significant upgrade and gives them a better shot at the cup: Reilly Tanev Muzzin Stecher Dermott Barrie (Marincin Holl) VAN takes the risk that they can still make the playoffs with the following defense corps: Edler Myers Hughes Ceci Fantenberg Benn (Teves Rafferty) JB speaks with Tanev prior to the deal and makes it clear that this deal is about giving Tanev a shot at a cup in his hometown, and that VAN would love to resign him as a UFA next season. Very likely Tanev doesn't list TOR on his 8 team "no trade" list. Say the same to Stecher that we would love to have him back next season, although it is more likely that VAN will not be able to afford Stecher's RFA price tag, and we likely resign Tryamkin and Fantenberg instead next season. Canucks D for next season: Edler Myers Hughes Tanev Benn Tryamkin (Fantenberg Rafferty)

So hang on...you're saying we trade the following: Demko + Boeser + Eriksson + Brisebois to end up with; Forsberg + Weber + C Hutton + a 2nd round pick Cmon bro, waaaaaay off on value! There's just no way that's gonna happen!

Hey janisahockeynut... A few problems with your numbers. Main one is that Pettersson doesn't get $8m next season. He's still on his ELC @ $0.9m. So your forward lineup numbers come to $43.6m, not $54.7m. Then 43.6 + 23.4 + 1 = $68m, but you left out the $6m for Marky...so your roster actually = $74m Now add in Spooner buy out (+1) plus Luongo recapture (+3) = $78m. I assume Ferland is on LTIR or retired in your projection. Now add the 50% retention on your Russell deal (+2.0). And Baer's buried contract (another 2.3). Comes to $82.3m, and this doesn't account for the likely need for us to pay for this season's performance bonuses next season... We really can't afford to be making the moves you wish we could make (assuming they are even possible). I think the BEST moves that JB can make would be to move Sutter and Baer. These guys played key roles for us in the past during some dark times, but they need to be moved on now for the sake of all parties. We need to generate some cap space. Having said all that...I don't think you are wrong about the need for more toughness/size/pushback on our roster. A healthy Ferland, plus replacing Stecher with Tryamkin will go a long way towards increasing the size of this team for next season and the 2021 playoffs. This is my projected roster for next season, assuming we move Sutter, Baer and Stech, and comes to about $79.5m including recaptures and buy outs (but excludes perf bonuses). New contracts in brackets: Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Virtanen (3.25) Roussel Gaudette (2.0) Leivo (1.8) Ferland Beagle Motte (1.1) Ericksson Edler Tanev (4.75) Hughes Tryamkin (2.5) Benn Myers Fantenberg (1.2) Markstrom (5.0) Demko It might be a bit boring from a trade perspective, but I think it's an exciting group!

My preference is not to trade for a top 6 winger, I would prefer we wait until Podkolzin, Hoglander and Madden develop and join the NHL. I would like to JB to focus on moving out Baer and Sutter prior to next season to clear cap space, and if necessary Stecher too. However, Zucker is a prime target if JB has been mandated to find a top 6 winger. In my example Leivo was a cap dump. I am aware that he is not a LW1, is injured and is UFA next year. Minnesota would only do the deal to try and improve their future by adding Lind and a 2021 2nd, and not in an attempt to improve for this year's playoffs. Perhaps Madden would be a more interesting add for Minnesota, instead of Lind, as their centers are aging out?

Hey there. Good on ya for posting some ideas. Unlike some on here, I don't get upset that you like to think about how to make our team better and post your thoughts for discussion. So please don't be put off by the negativity. Of course these deals won't happen. We're all just spit balling. And in my personal opinion I think that the Canucks should not go all in this year, it is too early for their young core. But hey, in response to your OP, I think the roster you have proposed is not quite a Cup contender (and neither is mine below), but I would rather keep Tanev over Hamhuis, and I think Demko is essential as a decent backup for Marky. So here are some possible changes to your three deals to get a top 6 winger plus Tyler Bert without losing Tanev and Demko: Deal 1: To MIN - Lind, Leivo, 2021 2nd To VAN - Zucker Deal 2: To DET - Podkolzin, Sutter, Stecher To VAN - Bertuzzi Deal 3: Sign Tryamkin to $2.5m Waive Eriksson, MacEwen Total cap out = $10.1m Total cap in = $9.4m Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Zucker Bertuzzi Gaudette Virtanen Roussel Beagle Motte Schaller (LTIR = Ferland, Graovac; Utica depth = Eriksson, MacEwen, Baer, Goldobin) Edler Myers Hughes Tanev Benn Tryamkin Fantenberg (Utica depth = Rafferty, Teves, Brisebois, OJ) Markstrom Demko

I believe JB will move Sutter, Stecher and Baer this season. Deals could be something like: 1) Sutter + Stecher (50%) to DET in return for a 2021 5th + Jonathan Ericsson Cap out = $5.54m, Cap in = $4.25m, Ericsson is a 35 year old pending UFA This gives DET a young replacement D for Ericsson, plus veteran C depth for one more year 2) Baer + 2020 3rd to OTT in return for 2020 4th OTT looking to boost value of their picks and Baer provides a top 6 roster player for next season VAN drops around 10-20 places in by switching these picks with OTT I don't think Ericksson will be able to be moved until after next season. Resign the following for 2020/21 (plenty of room to negotiate and keep this total below $21.6m): Markstrom $5m Virtanen $3.25m Gaudette $2.0m Leivo $1.8m Motte $1.1m Tanev $4.75m Tryamkin $2.5m Fantenberg $1.2m Canucks roster for next season (total cap hit including all recapture, etc = $78.5m): Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Virtanen Roussel Gaudette Leivo Ferland Beagle Motte Ericksson Edler Myers Hughes Tanev Benn Tryamkin Fantenberg Markstrom Demko

Fun with lines... Petey Horvat Boeser Roussel Gaudette Miller Pearson Sutter Virtanen Schaller Beagle Leivo

In fairness to JB we hadn’t even signed Myers yet at the time Buffalo was considering moving on from Ristolainen, so a trade wasnt even possible. If JB succeeded in getting Risto then he very likely would not have signed Myers.

Thanks for the explanation. I think we can all see the benefits of your proposal to the Canucks. But there is not enough benefit or reason for the Kings to accept this trade.

The likely reason Eriksson has not been waived is due to injuries to others in our roster. It will be telling if/when all our forwards are healthy. Assuming Graovac gets sent back to Utica, we would still have 15 healthy forwards with a maximum of 14 spots (assuming 7D + 2G). This means likely one of Eriksson, Motte or Schaller will be waived. If Eriksson is not waived at that point, then we know there is another reason he is being kept with the Canucks. IMO the only things that saves LE from being waived is more injuries or if JB has a trade lined up to clear a roster spot at forward.

Thanks. Brett Pesce springs to mind. Would be a perfect fit and could do what Tanev does. But Canes are not giving him up for nothing/anything. I think it’s easy to find someone but not so easy to afford them. Tanev could be resigned for a modest amount. He and Edler will buy us a couple more years to develop the rest of our young top 4 D.

I personally want to keep Markstrom. As you say, a deal with TOR would need to be assets for assets (unlikely picks being moved) because we are both at cap limit. One possible trade idea, with fair values IMO, but which is unlikely to go ahead from either teams perspective would be: To TOR: Marky (50% retained), Stecher To VAN: Barrie, Mikheyev, Hutchinson $4.158m cap in for TOR $4.375m cap out for TOR

Cap Cap not really an issue once everyone is back healthy. It is more about roster spots. We will easily be under cap limit. We are at $85.4m including current roster plus all injured players. Once Ferland, Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Edler return. We reassign Dipietro, Chatfield, Graovac, MacEwen, Goldobin. This would reduce cap by about $4m and is enough to bring us under the cap limit. However, we would need to reduce by one more roster spot to reach max of 23. So we waive Eriksson which reduces cap by a further $1m approx. This reduces cap to about $80.3m, and leaves us with 14F, 7D, 2G. This assumes no one else is injured in the mean time, but cap is not really an issue. One thing JB needs to consider is this year’s bonuses that may need to be paid to Petey, Gaud and Hughes. This could come to $4.55m. I would like to see him find a home for Baer and move on from his buried contract. Perhaps OTT would be interested for their top 6. He would be an upgrade on Nick Paul. And they only have 4 forwards contracted for next season, plus they are looking for picks for their rebuild. Something like: To OTT: Baer, 2020 3rd To VAN: 2020 4th This brings us down to about $77m and creates space to cover the potential performance bonuses. Oh and don’t trade Tanev. Please resign him!!! He’s a warrior for the Nucks!

Kreider would be a nice fit in our top 6. Main concerns are cost of assets to acquire him this season and cost of his UFA salary to keep him next season. Also we would need to send (e.g.) Pearson to NYR in order to clear enough cap space for this season. Additionally, if we are looking at resigning Markstrom, we need to offload Baer's contract too. I am assuming JB will struggle to offload Eriksson. Maybe something like: To OTT: Baer, 2020 3rd To VAN: 2020 4th 2020/21 roster: Kreider Pettersson Boeser Miller Horvat Virtanen Roussel Gaudette Ferland Motte Beagle Sutter Eriksson Edler Myers Hughes Tanev Benn Stecher/Tryamkin Juolevi Markstrom Demko

Also would've liked to see Loui benched and Goldy playing: Virtanen-Pettersson-Boeser Schaller-Horvat-Miller (main shutdown line) Pearson-Gaudette-Goldobin Leivo-Graovac-MacEwen

I made a similar proposal for Mikheyev, but I like yours better. I feel Ceci is doing well in TOR and they would prefer to keep someone with his size, rather than having both Barrie and Stecher on their blueline. So maybe tweak it to: Barrie + Mikheyev (total cap = $3.675m) for Stecher + Pearson (both 50% retained, total cap = $3.038m) Why for TOR? Barrie is a defensive trainwreck right now, without providing the expected offence, and TOR needs to get rid of him asap. Stech is an upgrade defensively and can play 2RD. Should pair nicely with Muzzin. Reilly is their PP Dman anyway, plus they will not be able to resign next season Barrie so they may as well cut bait and get a young Dman in Stech that can play D and may be able to be resigned next season. Pearson is more suited to a 3LW role than Mikheyev and provides TOR with additional leadership, PK and grit to their lineup. Also with VAN retaining 50% then the Leafs manage to shed about $637k in cap. This should allow them to bring one of their "700-club" players up from the AHL and be able to run a 22-man roster once Marner returns. Why for VAN? Canucks get a future potential 2LW for Bo in Mikheyev, who is RFA next season. Potentially sign him to a good value bridge deal if he performs. And they get to see if Barrie can thrive in VAN before considering whether they trade him at the TDL or look to resign him long term. He can be parked on the 3rd pairing 5v5 and rolled out for the PP2. He has all the skills to turn the corner in VAN and become an offensive dynamo again (with the acknowledgement that he will probably always be defensively weak). Both may or may not work out, not too big of a deal if they don't, as Stech is RFA next season and may want a pay rise. Pearson is another 3rd line LW which we already have Roussel, Leivo, Baer and Ferland, and we could do with offloading.

Markstrom (50% retained) Stecher (50% retained) (less than $3m) for Barrie (offensive 1RD) Mikheyev (nice 2LW for Bo) ($3.675m) Or maybe just trade Markstrom for a 1st and then sign Barrie as a UFA... ;-)

So if Sutter is injured we will need at least one call up. Who will it be? Goldy? Big Mac? Beagle is also day to day, so perhaps we need two call ups. We can only afford that if Sutter goes onto LTIR. I’d like to see Big Mac called up. Hopefully Beagle is good to go against Dallas. But if he is out for next couple of games, this is F line up I’d like to see: Leivo Petey Boeser Baer Horvat Virtanen Pearson Miller Eriksson Schaller Gaudette MacEwen Obviously PK is most affected. Run with... PK1: Horvat Pearson PK2: Schaller Eriksson Not bad considering our list of injured forwards: Sutter Beagle Motte Ferland Roussel

Roussel was put on LTIR to allow the Canucks to bring MacIntyre and Sautner up from Utica to cover for Marky's absence and Fanta's illness. Without doing that they would have been over the cap. They could have put Roussel on LTIR earlier but there was no need to since they were below $81.5m even with him on IR.

Thanks for the reply. There is a lot of detail in your post that it is difficult to reply, but will give it a go... You say 8 players should get qualifying offers. I’m not sure which 8 you mean, but of our 14 RFA’s next season, none of them are under $660k salary, so none require a 10% raise on a QO. Most require a 5% raise (as are under $1m salary), but I would say Gaudette, Virtanen, Stecher and Motte will be the only resigned RFAs likely to be on the NHL roster next season. In what universe do you think Tryamkin is worth $4.5m and Stecher is worth $4m? I’m not saying they can’t improve and MAYBE be worth that, but they won’t be paid based on what Gudbranson got, and they will have to be exhibiting the ability to be a top 4 D man on a contender to warrant that sort of money and that could be 3-4 years away. Their next contract will be more along the lines of what Benn is getting to start with, with perhaps an additional $0.5-1.0m due to being younger and having more potential. The new salaries you have proposed in 2 to 3 years time just don’t fit with the actual timelines of contracts ending. E.g. Bo has 4 more years on his contract. Pettersson has 2 years. Myers has 5 years. The point I was trying to make earlier is that the contracts are staggered and timed in such a way that we won’t end up in serious cap trouble in any one year, even as our high end players command more salary. Let’s take the 2021-22 season for example since this is when Petey is due his next contract. You say $9m, I am guessing more like $10m. The only players we have contracted for that season are: Horvat, Boeser, Eriksson, Miller, Ferland, Beagle, Roussel, Myers. The projected cap hit is $41.15m, including the $3m recapture penalty. It is likely the cap goes up a few million by then, let’s say to $84m, should give us about $42.8m to spend on 15 players. By example only, this could be achieved as follows: Pettersson - $10m Gaudette - $3.5m Virtanen - $2.5m (NO WAY he gets $4.5m without serious improvement) Podkolzin - $1m (ELC) Hoglander - $1m (ELC) MacEwen - $1m Hughes - $6m Tryamkin - $3.5m Stecher - $3.5m Juolevi - $3m Brisebois - $1.25m Rafferty - $1.25m Woo - $0.9 (still on his ELC) Demko - $3.5m Dipietro - $0.8m (still on his ELC) Roster: Miller Petey Boeser Ferland Horvat Podz Hoglander Gaudette Virtanen Roussel Beagle MacEwen (Eriksson) Hughes Myers Tryamkin Stecher Juolevi Woo (Brisebois Rafferty) Demko Dipietro Now I am projecting 3 years out, so there is no way that I am guessing correctly on the prospects that will make it or not. But the reality is that this team has its core now, we will purposely lose vets as they age out and become UFA, our stars will command more salary as they ascend, and we will fill in the role players with dynamic young (and cheap) players from our deep prospect pool.

...plus they will probably paper down Gaudette for a few days to account for MacIntyre's cap hit. So he won't be able to play while that occurs. Without doing that we would be about $0.5m over cap limit.

New Zealand

Yeah I'm with you on these thoughts. However, I wonder if they needed to paper down Gaudette for a few days because adding MacIntyre to the roster puts them $0.5m over the cap limit? I love the look of the Ferland-Horvat-Pearson line. These guys should match up nicely against the Wings top line. Then we could have shut down their second line with the like of Motte-Beagle-Sutter. This leaves lots of room for matching the following up against their 3rd and 4th lines: Miller-Petey-Boeser Leivo-Gaudette-Virtanen I guess its not to be!

Don't get me wrong - I would definitely rather have Clifford over Schaller! However, I don't feel like it is worth paying a 3rd rounder for that swap. The main reason is that Clifford is on the final year of his contract, so we are spending that just to have him here for this season (a rental UFA - which you did mention). I think I would rather keep the pick and keep Gaudette in the NHL. I would do a 5th rounder + Schaller for Clifford.