Patel Bure

@wallstreetamigo @kanucks25 @Provost, @Tom Sestito @AV. Honest question for you guys, If Petey and Brock were playing even remotely close to their abilities this season, where do you think we would be in the standings right now?

So lets say, under a new coach, the Canucks go 7 games over .500 (34-27) and still miss the playoffs. A year later, we make the playoffs but lose in the 1st round. Then what? Miller leaves? What about at the end of this year? Can we afford Boeser? Do we let him walk? Do we want to just make the playoffs for some kind of morale victory or do we want to build a core that can win us a cup one day? I'm kind of torn to be honest.

I’m inclined to agree with this in spirit, but really......even with a new coach, the Canucks aren’t likely going to go 40-21 in their next 61 games and qualify for the playoffs. Even with a new coach, we should move Horvat and Miller at the deadline barring some miracle turn around in which we are playoff competitive at the deadline. Horvat and Miller for two elite prospects + land a top 5 pick in the 2022 draft = a damn bright future = 2022 UFA’s possibly even wanting to join us.

Although it's "coulda shoulda woulda", I think most would agree that in our last five games (Colorado, Winnipeg, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Columbus), we outplayed every single team except Pittsburgh (and the first ten minutes of the Avalanche game), and so we probably deserved to go 4-1 during this latest stretch.

Meh. Good for them. Let us tank this season and put ourselves in a better position to land Shane Wright. I'd even be happy with someone like Conor Geekie. Horvat and Miller for two elite prospects (Alex Newhook and Braden Schneider?), and all of a sudden, we've got a bright future ahead of us.

The new lottery rules give higher probability odds to worse teams. Even if the Canucks don't finish last and draft Wright, they could easily finish in the bottom three or bottom wherever. Tons of great picks in this draft. Best case = Shane Wright; more realistic case = Conor Geekie (i.e. our Horvat replacement). https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sportsnets-2022-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-november-edition/

Petey and Barzal does sound interesting. Barzal is a RHC and is also from around here. Both players are struggling mightily this season for god knows what reason.

I'd say even better...... Lets just say for arguments sake that we landed both Alex Newhook and Braden Schneider in independent deals for Miller and Horvat. We then land Shane Wright or Conor Geekie at the draft. A 2022 UFA looks at our team and sees the following potential for the 23-24 season: Pettersson-[Wright or Geekie]-Boeser Podkolzin-[Newhook]-Garland Pearson-####-Hoglander Dickinson-###-Motte Hughes-[Schneider or Dobson] OEL-Myers Rathbone-Poolman Demko Dipietro Coach = Julien GM = new President = new Call me crazy, but I think 2022 high ticket UFA's would strongly consider Vancouver as both a short term and long term opportunity.

Ratherford = the drizzling $&!#s, lol. &^@# that guy. Canucks next GM needs to be a stone cold savage killer with genius intellect.........like Steve Yzerman and Joe Sakic. I liked Benning but his loyalty to Green cost us in my opinion......and Benning ultimately dropped the ball. We need someone who is savage like Stevie Y and Sakic (i.e. the two best GM's in the league imo, and up there with the GOAT's like Scotty Bowman). Maybe Mark Messier would have been ideal here but hiring him in Vancouver would be a PR nightmare, lol. Assuming that we got rid of both Benning and Weisbrod, bringing back Gillis and Trevor Linden would be phenomenal from a PR standpoint, but would the Aqua's be able to repair the relationship with them? Linden as President, Gillis as GM, the twins as whatever.....

A fair point but at this juncture, I think we have to assume a few things: 1) This season is a lost cause regardless of whether we have guys that can win face offs or not. 2) Perhaps we can get a guy(s) that can win face-offs in the off-season (I hear Jay Beagle might be available :-p) 3) At this juncture, perhaps it would be in the Canucks' best interests to replenish the cupboards. If both Horvat and Miller can land you two elite prospects (Braden Schneider and Noah Dobson?) in total, combined with the Canucks tanking this season and landing one of Shane Wright or Conor Geekie, then I believe that we'd make out like gangbusters. Replace Green and Benning with Claude Julien and a new GM, and all of a sudden, UFA's on July 1st 2022 might actually consider Vancouver both a short term and long term viable opportunity.

I can't see NYI agreeing to that. Barzal is worth more than Pettersson. Given NYI's struggles this season, and given that they aren't that far from being elite, *maybe* Dobson isn't quite as untouchable as originally thought? Something around Horvat or Miller for Dobson?

Excellent point. My only concern with making moves too early is that it would indirectly encourage players to "mail it in" this season. Do we really want to run the risk of guys like Hoglander, Podkolzin, and other young guys mailing it in if we trade our players with value? I'm not sure...... I definitely understand your view though.

Kypreos is another water head and $&!#head. Obviously, Horvat and Miller would fetch a kings ransom, but now is not the time to trade them. Trade them at the deadline if and when the Canucks are out of contention. Trading our pieces with value right now would lead to all/most players completely going through the motions for the rest of the season and that is terrible for culture. Continue working as hard as you can up until the deadline, and then make appropriate decisions at the trade deadline.

Great post. The question however, is if this system was implemented due to Green feeling that our players are not talented enough (or geared) towards playing a puck possession style, or if Green is simply misguided in his approach?

This is a really good point but hasn't Green been utilizing "dump and chase" throughout his entire tenure here? If so, then why would Petey and Brock completely struggle this year and not other years? (i.e. Boeser was really good last year; Petey was terrific before last season and even last season, started to come around before his injury).

Yep. iMac, Kuzma, and Don Taylor are all great. Even Tony Gallagher who can be douchey at times, is a stand up guy. As far as the new age guys go, Dan Riccio and Sat Shah are also excellent.

Yes. It’s what guys like him and Thomas Drance do. They try and start $&!#. For example, a few years back before the 2017 draft, Benning inquired about moving our 5th overall + asset in order to move up in the draft to try and select Cale Makar. Thomas Drance, knowing that his followers hated Benning, attempted to spin this as “Benning wanted Cody Glass over Elias Pettersson.” Guys like Sekeres and Drance are scum bags plain and simple.

Ian MacIntyre is a highly respected sports journalist who has earned my trust and respect throughout the years. Stand up guy. Matt Sekeres is a piece of garbage like Thomas Drance and JD Burke.

Neither. I’d rather see Claude Julien.

Here’s my problem with the new coach theory. Even if a new coach comes in here and turns the team around, do you see us going 40-21 for the remainder of the season? (Which is approximately what it would take for us to qualify to the playoffs this season?). Even if the Canucks were to finish very strong this season and miss the playoffs, it would be another season in which we missed the playoffs. Maybe we’d make the playoffs the following year, but ask yourself, “even with a new coach, would you expect this core to compete with the elite teams in this league? The Florida’s, Carolina’s, Edmonton’s, Tampa’s, Vegas, Colorado, and Washington’s of this league? I don’t know.....I’m inclined to say no. Is the goal to make the playoffs or win the cup? That’s why I say - if before July 1st of 2022, the Canucks can...... 1) Acquire two very elite prospects for Horvat and Miller. 2) Get a Shane Wright or a Conor Geekie at the draft 3) Replace Green and Benning at the end of the season I actually think some UFA’s on July 1st will give us a serious look since we could be perceived as a team with a legit bright future. Ps - the only thing I’ll say that is different from my OP, is to not make the Horvat and Miller deals until the trade deadline. Give our current team every opportunity to fight and push their way back to salavage this season. The last you want to do is trade Horvat and Miller too early, and then have the boys start coasting through the season from December onwards.

A few months ago, we, including you from your high horse, thought that Pettersson and Boeser were legit 1st line calibre talents that would play a major role in driving this teams’ offense. Benning and Aqua thought the same. Silly us?

Elvis Merzchickens

I was also drinking.

There is no rift. Complete fabrication by Thomas Drance and that clown Hirsch who was farted on by Pete Nedved one too many times.

@Gnarcore - “would of” ???