Kevin Bieksa you are really...

[shazzam]

In all honesty I didn't remember Bieksa was getting top pairing minutes two years ago.

He was also coming off that horrible injury from the year before, but still managed 43. He's coming off pretty much the same injury again from last year, but this time with more maturation and development.

The lack of prime pp time will surely skew his totals, but his overall TOI is still solid, something around 20 compared to Edler's 23 I believe. Him and Hamhuis are also used consistently in conjunction with our top line, something to pad his points.

But only time will tell. I could be wrong, but past history, growth patterns, and player profiles seem to back my opinion from what I can see.

Edit: Ahh i see two posts above me that apparently Bieksa is averaging 24 mins. Wow, that's quite a bit. I'm sure Ballard and Alberts being out for a bit last game played a part in that, at least a lil

according to nhl.com, only Ehrhoff and Edler are averaging over 24 mins per game on the canucks

AV is riding this pair more 5v5 and on the PP

2 years ago bieksa had the highest TOI per game on our team

not too hard to do some searching

[malHOEtra]

lol, Kopitar should have had a body and 6 feet of stick to get thru before he could get to the slot. It was bad gap management and no communication with his partner that created the scoring opportunity that resulted in a goal.

Out of all of LA's goals, this was the only one that wasn't scored of some sort of deflection/bounce. Now lets remember this is Kopitar and Brown were dealing with.

After the goal John Garrett defended Bieksas positioning saying that it was the right play to follow Kopitar, and that he can't just stay in his lane on the play. I take John Garretts knowledge > Mine/CDC's knowledge.

Not blaming Hamhuis on this because D-Brown is the epitome of power forward...the guy just about impossible to get positioning on when he is there.

I feel that that was the only goal where LA exploited our defense.

[malHOEtra]

How're the mods letting things like this slip by on the thread?

Kesler is also on the team to put up (some, at the very least) points. He's also "not doing that" (zero points in four games). And guess what? He's paid 1.5M more than Bieksa is!

What I'm trying to say is: IT'S FOUR GAMES INTO THE SEASON, PEOPLE. Jay Bouwmeester has 0 points in 3 games, Zach Bogosian has 0 points in 3 games, McCabe, Coburn, and Timmonen all have 0 points in 3, 4, and 4 games respectively! Shocking, right? And they all average about the same amount of ice time and +/- as well!

Jay Bouwmeester 3GP, 26:05 ATOI, -1

Kimmo Timonen 4GP, 25:11 ATOI, 0+/-

Kevin Bieksa 4GP, 24:56 ATOI, -1

Zach Bogosian 3GP, 24:04 ATOI, -1

Braydon Coburn 4GP, 22:48 ATOI, 0+/-

Bryan McCabe 3GP, 20:05 ATOI, +1

With a small sample size, Bieksa is around the middle of the pack of "top-ATOI defensemen." Now, I'm not saying that "I love Bieksa" or that I'm defending his play as of late (a lot of the team would need to be defended, then), but he's also not getting paid 7M (JayBo, Timmo), or 4M+ (McCabe) to "underachieve." Like I said, this is a small sample size, and that I'm sure the numbers would be relatively the same if I grabbed a larger one. October has always been a slow month for us, and I don't see why it should've been any different this season. Just because we've replaced a few of the guys that left (or traded)? It's only been 4 games, give it some time for the team to mesh and everything should fall into place. Who knows? Maybe we'll go on a 10 game win-run at the end of October and tear it up.

Stranger things have happened (The Leafs?).

Great post. I really think Canucks fans need to take a step back (The sedins and Luongo are the only guys without a thread about them right now it seems) and just enjoy some hockey. At this point Clark McArthur is on pace for 103 goals

Too many players being thrown under the bus at this point IMO.

[Sanford]

I get really angry when I see Bieksa pinching in and disrupting the Sedins cycle. He pinches in thinking he's some offensive juggernaut or some crap.... what he ends up doing is giving the puck away and giving the opposing team a 2 on 1.

After conceding a goal he acts all "pissy" and "tough"...

The pinches he makes ARE COMPLETELY USELESS.

0 points in 4 games... I mean... When will AV tell him to stop pinching?

Then there's that stupid argument "Pinching in is Bieksa's game". No ITS NOT, he's crap at doing it..

0 points in 4 games so far. This would be acceptable if he wasn't pinching in and playing good defensively... but he doesn't...

What does the 0 points tell us? THAT BIEKSA PINCHING IN IS NOT WORTH IT... he is just disrupting play and making Hamhuis work extra harder to cover his mistakes.

Yet for some reason, the idiot AV doesn't see this. For some reason, Vigneault still lets Bieksa pinch in.

I almost laughed when AV awarded Bieksa with the 5 on 3 yesterday. It was just comical.

I am seriously waiting for a sex scandal involving AV and Bieksa to surface soon. There is no reason why AV should play Bieksa 20+ minutes a game along with key situations such as the PK. Absolutely no reason.

[malHOEtra]

I get really angry when I see Bieksa pinching in and disrupting the Sedins cycle. He pinches in thinking he's some offensive juggernaut or some crap.... what he ends up doing is giving the puck away and giving the opposing team a 2 on 1.

After conceding a goal he acts all "pissy" and "tough"...

The pinches he makes ARE COMPLETELY USELESS.

0 points in 4 games... I mean... When will AV tell him to stop pinching?

Then there's that stupid argument "Pinching in is Bieksa's game". No ITS NOT, he's crap at doing it..

0 points in 4 games so far. This would be acceptable if he wasn't pinching in and playing good defensively... but he doesn't...

What does the 0 points tell us? THAT BIEKSA PINCHING IN IS NOT WORTH IT... he is just disrupting play and making Hamhuis work extra harder to cover his mistakes.

Yet for some reason, the idiot AV doesn't see this. For some reason, Vigneault still lets Bieksa pinch in.

Only 8 of our 20 skaters have recorded points this season. Bieksa is one of them. 11/21 points are from the Sedin twins, Edler and Ehrhoff are next. I don't think Bieksa having 0 points is a concern when are teams point production has sucked.

[Sanford]

Only 8 of our 20 skaters have recorded points this season. Bieksa is one of them. 11/21 points are from the Sedin twins, Edler and Ehrhoff are next. I don't think Bieksa having 0 points is a concern when are teams point production has sucked.

I know that Bieksa 0 points is not our concern.

However, when you see Bieksa pinch in every game (Causing 2 on 1's)... for whatever reason... you expect some points. Hence, if he isn't getting any points... there's no reason why AV keeps should let him pinch every single time.

Tell the man to at least play defensively and wait for his chances...

The High Risk(Bieksa Pinching in and giving a 2 on 1) High Reward (Bieksa Pinching and helping the team)factor is becoming a DEADLY risk no reward factor.

As one poster stated, Its like putting 6 bullets in a Russian Roulette.

[thad]

hey did anyone see when bieksa was the only one in positition on the second goal and hamhuis was all over the place. i actually laughed when i seen that one go off his skate thinking"cant wait to read the blame bieksa tomorrow" lou should of had his stick down that was his fault.

i actually thought he was good last night, i know hes under the microscope and everyone watches his every move. he made the odd few bad plays when he had no puck support but so did hamhuis. alberts was the worst. but overall the team sucked last night.

[Buttock]

It not so much people rag on him some of it justified some of it not. It's that they have no answers. And when they do it's usually ridiculous stuff like play Rome a guy who's a good fill-in but that's about it, or keeping SOB a guy who is a liability in the strictest sense of the word.

You can't seriously believe this. Are you even reading this thread? Answers to what questions?

Bieksa's gap control is just terrible. He should absolutely never be matched up against a big, speedy, skilled forward like Kopitar. That should be obvious to everyone by now. Well, everyone except AV.

Down the stretch last year O'Brien did a pretty good job in a top four role, playing with Ehrhoff when Bieksa played with Rome. O'Brien is a better defenseman than Bieksa by leaps and bounds.

Watching the highlights, I see that Bieksa was on the ice for three of the four goals against. Hmm. He doesn't really make a bad play on any of them but you can see his poor gap control contributed at least in part to the Kings' easy entrance into the zone, and the slot, on each goal.

GET HEEM OFF THA TOP PAIRE

[malHOEtra]

I can agree with the Bieksa haters that he is getting more ice-time than I am comfortable with, however it gives the defense some balance. Ideally I would like to see

Edler/Ehrhoff

Ballard/Hamhuis

Bieksa/Alberts

Each pairing is a fully capable top 4 NHL d-pair. Whether people can admit it or not, Bieksa is a serviceable NHL caliber d-man.

Hopefully Ballard isn't out long, because I don't like Rome being in the lineup.

[Buttock]

I do like Rome, and he has done a decent job babysitting Bieksa in the past. It's not that hard, apparently, if you're on the third pairing.

So I would use:

Hamhuis/Edler

Alberts/Ehrhoff

Rome/Bieksa

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

I know that Bieksa 0 points is not our concern.

However, when you see Bieksa pinch in every game (Causing 2 on 1's)... for whatever reason... you expect some points. Hence, if he isn't getting any points... there's no reason why AV keeps should let him pinch every single time.

Tell the man to at least play defensively and wait for his chances...

The High Risk(Bieksa Pinching in and giving a 2 on 1) High Reward (Bieksa Pinching and helping the team)factor is becoming a DEADLY risk no reward factor.

As one poster stated, Its like putting 6 bullets in a Russian Roulette.

See now I don't really disagree I have to say that I think your wrong on the "no reward factor." There are plenty of times where his pinches create chances for the canucks. The real problem is that for that reward there will be a risk. When it doesn't work out it shows up so much more than when it does.

[Buttock]

Now it's fun stat time. The Canucks have given up nine goals so far. Bieksa has been on the ice for four of those goals (three of them last night) and was in the box for a fifth. Hamhuis has been on the ice for three goals against, each with Bieksa. Edler and Ehrhoff as a pair have been on the ice for three goals against as well, but two of them were shorthanded. Alberts has been on the ice for two goals against (one with Ballard, one with Bieksa), and Ballard has been on the ice for two, one of them as the lone defender in a 5 on 3 situation.

If you subtract last night's outing, and the shorthanded goals, each of the top pairings (Hamhuis/Bieksa and Edler/Ehrhoff) had been on the ice for one ES goal against (before last night.)

So just in terms of results the pairings seemed to be working more or less okay...before last night. One game doesn't necessarily mean too much...just something to pay attention to.

[Canadian]

If Ballard can't go next game, I'd like to see Parent play.

If he performs well, the Canucks may be able to trade Bieksa sooner than later.

[Sacrilage]

This is for sharpshooter and the gang.

Poor game by everyone last night. Luongo, the forwards, and all d mean. Hamhuis was pretty poor tonight. Bieksa was bad, probably not as bad as hammy tho... The play where Kopitar blew by bieksa, well, yea the correct thing was to follow Kopitar... But he didnt do a very good job of it.. But Hamhuis didnt cover brown either.. In fact, Hammy nearly fell over all on his own getting to the net.

Earlier where Bieksa was in front of luongo and missed clearing the puck... Poor goal By louie.. But also Bad play at the Blue line By Hamhuis... Whech ended up with Hamhuis all over the place, and Bieksa getting confused as what to do.. So I dont really think Bieksas faut there.. though he still could have played it better.

Still on a whole, Not a good game By Bieksa, But a bad game by the whole team.

[Sharpshooter]

Now it's fun stat time. The Canucks have given up nine goals so far. Bieksa has been on the ice for four of those goals (three of them last night) and was in the box for a fifth. Hamhuis has been on the ice for three goals against, each with Bieksa. Edler and Ehrhoff as a pair have been on the ice for three goals against as well, but two of them were shorthanded. Alberts has been on the ice for two goals against (one with Ballard, one with Bieksa), and Ballard has been on the ice for two, one of them as the lone defender in a 5 on 3 situation.

If you subtract last night's outing, and the shorthanded goals, each of the top pairings (Hamhuis/Bieksa and Edler/Ehrhoff) had been on the ice for one ES goal against (before last night.)

So just in terms of results the pairings seemed to be working more or less okay...before last night. One game doesn't necessarily mean too much...just something to pay attention to.

That would be an interesting stat, if you contextualized it in the realization that Hamhuis and Bieksa, face the opposing teams top players throughout the majority of the game and situationally. Means they're one the ice against generally better talent, and it's impossible for them to stop the league's best snipers.

Just something to consider, while you're busy paying attention to a mostly irrelevant stat.

[Sharpshooter]

This is for sharpshooter and the gang.

Poor game by everyone last night. Luongo, the forwards, and all d mean. Hamhuis was pretty poor tonight. Bieksa was bad, probably not as bad as hammy tho... The play where Kopitar blew by bieksa, well, yea the correct thing was to follow Kopitar... But he didnt do a very good job of it.. But Hamhuis didnt cover brown either.. In fact, Hammy nearly fell over all on his own getting to the net.

Earlier where Bieksa was in front of luongo and missed clearing the puck... Poor goal By louie.. But also Bad play at the Blue line By Hamhuis... Whech ended up with Hamhuis all over the place, and Bieksa getting confused as what to do.. So I dont really think Bieksas faut there.. though he still could have played it better.

Still on a whole, Not a good game By Bieksa, But a bad game by the whole team.

Stop it! You're starting to scare me.

Who are you? and what did you do with the real 'Sacrilage'?

You Bieksa 'lover' you... ...lol...

[Buttock]

That would be an interesting stat, if you contextualized it in the realization that Hamhuis and Bieksa, face the opposing teams top players throughout the majority of the game and situationally. Means they're one the ice against generally better talent, and it's impossible for them to stop the league's best snipers.

Just something to consider, while you're busy paying attention to a mostly irrelevant stat.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. The whole point was to ask the question of whether the top pairing is up to doing the job of the top pairing. Last night, they weren't. Before that, they did pretty well in terms of results, but if you actually watched the games you could see them getting bailed out a lot.

Hamhuis doesn't look so good on any of the goals against last night either, that's true. But he's been our best defenseman so far (by far) and there is a snowball effect when players start to panic. Hamhuis was supposed to be a calming effect on Bieksa, but on those goals against it looks like Bieksa is having an unnerving effect on Hamhuis, which is unusual for Hamhuis. Hopefully he can settle down. Hopefully that pairing can settle down, or it will have to be changed. I know that Hamhuis will do outstanding on a pairing with Salo.

If it's really "impossible for them to stop the league's best snipers," they aren't up to the task. Man do we ever miss Willie.

That's something else that is becoming clear. Hamhuis is good, but no Willie Mitchell.

[CANUCKLELION]

I think it is because Burke's asking price was too high.

As a dman you have to keep a gap between you and the forward coming down or the dman will just get blown by. By keeping a gap it forces the forward to shoot or go wide.

True, but the real skill is timing the closing of that gap. Bieksa didn't close it, he waited too long and gave Kopitar the inside, K.B.'s job was to push him wide or take the pass away if he couldn't find the angle. He did neither, also there didn't seem to be any communication between Hammy + KB.

[Sharpshooter]

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. The whole point was to ask the question of whether the top pairing is up to doing the job of the top pairing. Last night, they weren't. Before that, they did pretty well in terms of results, but if you actually watched the games you could see them getting bailed out a lot.

Hamhuis doesn't look so good on any of the goals against last night either, that's true. But he's been our best defenseman so far (by far) and there is a snowball effect when players start to panic. Hamhuis was supposed to be a calming effect on Bieksa, but on those goals against it looks like Bieksa is having an unnerving effect on Hamhuis, which is unusual for Hamhuis. Hopefully he can settle down. Hopefully that pairing can settle down, or it will have to be changed. I know that Hamhuis will do outstanding on a pairing with Salo.

If it's really "impossible for them to stop the league's best snipers," they aren't up to the task. Man do we ever miss Willie.

That's something else that is becoming clear. Hamhuis is good, but no Willie Mitchell.

Well, since you didn't bother qualifying the use of this particular statistic in light of the proper context surrounding it, I assumed it wasn't obvious to you. Perhaps you just failed to mention it at the time...who knows?

One the point of Mitchell....he on many, many, many occasions got his jock strap wrapped around his helmet by the league's top players, blowing past him or simply out maneuvering him. He looked terrible on many nights and would take holding or hooking penalties or other varities of penalties when playing against top players from the league...and that's more evident during playoffs. Infact Mitchell took more penalties than Bieksa in the playoffs....but they both faced top performers from the opposing team. What does that say?

[Sharpshooter]

True, but the real skill is timing the closing of that gap. Bieksa didn't close it, he waited too long and gave Kopitar the inside, K.B.'s job was to push him wide or take the pass away if he couldn't find the angle. He did neither, also there didn't seem to be any communication between Hammy + KB.

What are you talking about?? Hamhuis has been personally quoted as saying that Kevin is a real vocal person on the ice with him, something that he didn't have before in Nashville, and that it makes Kevin an easy person to play with.

Your perception and the reality are quite stunningly disparate.