Baggins Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 If Raymond wants to resign for league minimum on a 2 way then maybe hes worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffHockey Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Raymond will get at least $3m+ on the open market this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackamore Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 So what have i missed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 that would be great for him and his family, i do wish Raymond all the best, ive just see enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Imagine going over to the Man United forums, telling them your from North America, never played the game but your here to tell them about how soccer is really played because you've been watching it on tv for a few years, thats basically Bodee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish⑦Canuck Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Imagine going over to the Man United forums, telling them your from North America, never played the game but your here to tell them about how soccer is really played because you've been watching it on tv for a few years, thats basically Bodee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Surely the salient points here are. What is he making/asking for? Can we realistically get someone with his abilities for the same/less? Does he (when fit ) help us reach the playoffs? Where is he best suited and will he be able to play there for us next season? Does he have good chemistry with his line mates? Is he now over his fitness/back issues? Do we need to strengthen other positions BEFORE we need to think about letting him go? Is he at an age where his best years could still be ahead of him? (27) If you are the incoming coach, I would say that your first priority is to REACH THE PLAYOFFS. Ironically it is not always the the playoff guys that show up in the regular season and vice versa. However in Raymond's case, unlike some he has never disappeared in the playoffs. Another issue would be who could you move in our team, without ruining the morale. By that I mean players we may have given assurances to, who may have established roots in Vancouver etc. So it seems to me and with the experience of last year in mind a 3rd line of Raymond - Schroeder - Burrows/Hansen would be a line that would be good defensively and put up good points in the process. There is also chemistry there...........we all saw it. We have so many other areas that are critical to the team that need to be addressed it seems that keeping Raymond only helps us at this time. We need. A big gritty sniper to play with the Sedins. Who would argue with that and who would argue that we would need to part with something valuable to get it. We need a revamped 2nd line. I don't think Kassian will be ready to regularly play in the 2nd line, I could be wrong. So we need, in my opinion a "Ryan Clowe/ Vanek type" and a playmaking centre Couturier, Giroux (Lars Eller looks good and Montreal are thick with centres.....recently been badly concussed though) to play with Kesler. Then there is the 4th but I would hope Gaunce could step up and centre Higgins and Hansen/Dorsett The defence is reasonably sound but I would still trade for a big stay at home top D. (Losing Edler and orBalard, Bieksa to get him) So you can see there are a lot of things that imo need to be addressed before we look to part with Raymond who is an extremely serviceable asset imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Baggins posted that last season. If he thinks Raymond was a "capable" 2nd liner on our team (while we are battling for 1st in the league), that should mean he is a pretty good player. This is further evidenced by the guys he compared Raymond to in that thread. The fact that Baggins is now whining that MG didn't do enough IS ironic because Baggins is the one that argued Raymond is good enough or "capable" of 2nd line. Meanwhile Raymond in my eyes is a "capable" 3rd liner at best. Now anyway you "spin" it, Baggins looks foolish because either 1) He thought Raymond was good enough for our 2nd line and now is complaining MG gave AV a horrible team to manage OR 2) He thinks our team should have "capable" mediocre guys to play on our 2nd line... Which one is it? Hmmm... I dunno, both options SUCK. But sure, keep pumping Baggins' tires lol. You turned my commentary pointing out the irony into a different argument in which you are splitting hairs over whether Baggins meant "capable" or "good" Way to inject yourself into this one lol. I'm sure Baggins appreciates it. That's what guys like you do...spin....spin....spin.... Way to miss the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Imagine going over to the Man United forums, telling them your from North America, never played the game but your here to tell them about how soccer is really played because you've been watching it on tv for a few years, thats basically Bodee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I'd plead the 5th .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 whoosh Your ability to not understand a simple point is outstanding. I mean even after all that you go back to that there could only be two options. You could have just said right off the bat that you were wrong but you decided to argue and turn this into something way bigger than your initial mistake. You turned it into showing why you can't even be taking seriously because you have this fantasy that there's only black and white in any argument. That word "capable" doesn't just fall into those categories. And I've never been pumping Baggins tires, but I have been deflating yours inadvertently. Well, I've watched you deflate them on your own actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bite me Burr Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 A shame for you that somebody else makes the decisions isn't it? My estimate is certainly more realistic than your drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 A shame for you that somebody else makes the decisions isn't it? My estimate is certainly more realistic than your drivel. But as I've said, signing Higgins to a multi-year deal with the ntc has likely sealed Raymonds fate here. We have too many wingers that are capable 2nd line players or good third line players, as opposed to good second line players. Raymond and Higgins at their best are average second liners. Btw, the past two summers players in the 40 to 50 point range were getting $4-$5m on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 whoosh Your ability to not understand a simple point is outstanding. I mean even after all that you go back to that there could only be two options. You could have just said right off the bat that you were wrong but you decided to argue and turn this into something way bigger than your initial mistake. You turned it into showing why you can't even be taking seriously because you have this fantasy that there's only black and white in any argument. That word "capable" doesn't just fall into those categories. And I've never been pumping Baggins tires, but I have been deflating yours inadvertently. Well, I've watched you deflate them on your own actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 If you are still a fan of Raymond at this point in his career, you are a homer who thinks that every player has value because he played for your favourite team. Every team has their fair share of average players who were supposed to be better than how they turned out. His skill set is replaceable. While it might be serviceable, who cares, he has worn out his welcome. If he was in the Canucks long term plans, don't you think they would have signed him to a longer deal rather than the one-year deal they gave him last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bite me Burr Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 stop with the logical posts, Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 You have a certain way with words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 All I read was personal attacks with absolutely ZERO reference to the actual argument at hand... It is what it is. This is EXACTLY the situation You are upset because I put words in Baggins' mouth by claiming Baggins referred to Raymond as a "good" second liner when Baggins in fact said "capable" I said pretty much who cares. the main point is Baggins wanted Raymond on 2nd line and defended him by comparing him to actual GOOD 2nd liners in this league and find it ironic that now he thinks MG hasn't done enough. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 If you are still a fan of Raymond at this point in his career, you are a homer who thinks that every player has value because he played for your favourite team. Every team has their fair share of average players who were supposed to be better than how they turned out. His skill set is replaceable. While it might be serviceable, who cares, he has worn out his welcome. If he was in the Canucks long term plans, don't you think they would have signed him to a longer deal rather than the one-year deal they gave him last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 No its not a shame. It's great actually because when another GM offers him 3m he will jump at it. Meanwhile we will let him go because he is not worth it. So it's a win win. He leaves and he gets his money. Your estimates are terrible because you wanted Raymond on our 2nd line yet you cry because you say MG didn't give AV a good enough team. I guess according to your estimates, we would have gotten out of the 1st round if we had some more Raymonds on the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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