viking mama Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Umm, newsflash buddy, but we were also stuck in a weak NW division, that's how we still finished high. This team no longer has bad teams to beat up on. No....now they have bad teams like (former-NW divisions rivals) EDM & CGY.....beating up on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrene Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 We sucked last year. Your record you posted doesn't actually prove otherwise. We only made 3rd place last season because of our crappy division. Get a clue, chump. We have the virtually the same players these last two years. If we sucked last year, how are we this year? If we sucked last year, and vs PLAYOFFS ONLY TEAM we're 7-6-5, and we're 6-9-4 vs PLAYOFFS ONLY TEAMS this year, how does the Math add up buddy? If we have a worse record this year vs the same bottom feeders compared to the "we sucked last year" team, how are we doing bud? Need me to fetch a calculator for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themcdeal Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I am but he would only delay the inevitable At least Gillis will not be forced to make some changes. This core is clearly broken, and some major changes need to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Here is the bottom line of this thread...We have 2 options here and they are #1 Gillis admits he was wrong by hiring Torts and only did so to try and have AV's polar opposite would help this team....Now im not saying we need AV back because we don't...No I say Lavioette...He has experience was a good coach for the Flyers but they slumped this year and change was used he could be a great option for us #2 Gillis trades everybody for Torts style players in an attempt to get this team on track again without going through the process of getting another new coach There are pros and cons to both as any decision...there is a #3 but that's just Gillis gets fired and somebody else has to cleanup this mess and falls right back to 1 or 2 Word at the time it was Aquilini that wanted Torts, not Gillis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Stoch Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 You could give this team Joel Quenneville or Mike Babcock and they'd still find a way to lose. I think coaching is far from the biggest problem with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 i love the argument that tortorella is better suited than vigneault for coaching in the playoffs. for his career: 5 missed playoffs (including stints as interim head coach), 4 first round exits, 2 second round exits, 1 third round exit, 1 cup win. vigneault: 3 missed playoffs, 2 first round exits, 4 second round exits, 1 cup loss. tortorella has won 8 rounds in 13 seasons, vigneault has won 7 rounds in 10 seasons. people get hung up on tampa's cup win a decade ago, which tortorella himself explains as happening only because none of them had any idea what they were doing. and for a little perspective, vigneault won 6 playoff rounds in his 7 years in vancouver. tortorella has won 3 playoff rounds in the 8 seasons since winning the cup in 04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the red Pony Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It was the players that put the management in the position to have to make the move. AV was not getting it done the last few years and change was inevitable. I think it is a bit premature to start throwing Torts under the bus. In my eyes with Torts philosophy we are truly seeing who is all in for the jersey they are wearing. It shouldn't matter who is coaching, if we had some true leadership on the team and guys that care they would do whatever it takes to be successful. What is most disappointing to me is that no one has stepped up and said enough is enough. Torts has been unable to make a general out of any of his leaders. But then again, is it my expectations as a fan? Because they are paying or will be paying the Sedins 7 million/year should I expect more from them as leaders? Or just sheltered minutes to pad their offensive stats? In my eyes it really speaks poorly to the character of the team, and any of them that don't take pride in the jersey they are wearing or the city they represent should not be here. A full 60 minute effort for 82 games a season plus playoffs. Is this too much to ask for the salaries that some guys are making? It almost seems that the perceived leaders on this team have said that it is easier to quit on the coaches,each other and their craft than to have to work for it. This does not bode well for any of the young guys we have coming up through the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 AV's time in Van was over, but MG picked the wrong coach........There are too many top level coaches in the west for JT. He's being out-coached on a nightly basis. You need to be more of a tactician than a motivator in the west Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Kesler Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 This whole 'Tortorella is the Problem!' concept that's suddenly sprouted in the past week is baffling to me. It's like last season, and the second half of the previous season, never happened or something. The issue is the same it's always been - secondary scoring. We're just seeing it more exposed as the Sedins (and Burrows) regress, from both age and injury. Seems to me like the terrible drafting that bridged the end of the Nonis/start of the Gillis era is the reason there's no one to pick up the slack now. There's hope on the horizon in a year or two, for now we should be playing boring defensive hockey with the hope that the stars align for a run in the playoffs, but, as I've said for awhile, our defense is great on paper but not good enough on the ice to make that happen. So, here we are. But if you're blaming Tortorella for that, you are out to lunch. This. The Canucks biggest issue is that they have been a 1 line team for far too long. They were able to get away with being a 1 line team for a long time because the PP was incredible, and because the Sedins were just that good. Now that the Sedins are regressing a bit due to age, and a lot because the PP sucks we see a team that used to score at will struggling to score with any consistency. Until some reinforcements arrive in 2-3 years that help stabilize secondary scoring, the Canucks will continue to slog out attempts to win 2-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllEyezOnMe Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 AV would have made no difference. They can't score because they can't score. Almost 20 games is the fault of both Daniel and Henrik. Scotty Bowman would get the same results with the same players. I really doubt the extra ice time is that much of a factor. It's two minutes. For such conditioned athletes, they can't handle an extra two minutes on average? I'm sure you're a professional hockey player yourself to know something so small won't make NO difference whatsoever lol it makes all the difference bud, maybe not for one game but throughout an 82 game season their done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllEyezOnMe Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 You could give this team Joel Quenneville or Mike Babcock and they'd still find a way to lose. I think coaching is far from the biggest problem with this team. The players have been overworked or injured and have not much else to give. It all falls on Gillis to make a few trades to bring some energy and life back into this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Honestly, I expected a thread like this to pop up exactly around this time of the year once Torts was hired. I am one of the few people (I think) that liked AV. However, I knew before last year that his time was up. Every coach has a shelf life, and AV needed to go. Anyone with half a brain could see that it was going to get worse without AV before it got better. Had AV been kept again, the team would most certainly be doing better then they are now. However, they wouldn't be the dominant team they once were. What hiring Torts does is speed up the retool/rebuild. He was given a 5 year contract because it is going to take time. Now that the team is used to Torts style of play, Gillis can see which players do not fit in with his style and trade them for pieces that should fit Torts' style. It was always going to take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I was much more frequently in agreement with the way that AV organized and used the lineup than I am with Tortorella. I don't care for the fact the Sedins spend more time killing penalties than Hansen - it doesn't serve the Sedins and it doesn't serve Hansen. I really don't like the idea that a revolving carrot is dangled in front of anyone who Torts thinks is playing well - that they become the winger-of-the-night on the Twin line. I draw the line at Booth. The pairings have likewise been put through the blender on a regular basis - and a couple of the combinations (ie Edler Bieksa) have just never worked. Alot of injuries, but beyond them, additional instability with the constant shuffle. Five minutes a night for the fourth line is unsustainable - which can be explained in part due to injuries; the fourth line has been somewhat shallow. I think the team might have opted to add another depth veteran center when there were a number of bargains hanging around the UFA market, but that ship sailed (and not all on Tortorella). Nevertheless, the team has been tilted far too much towards top-heavy minutes as the OP points out. I like the aggressive forecheck when the team is rested and healthy enough to play that style of attack game. I like Tortorella's willingness to try some changes - but he goes too far imo, whereas most of us felt that AV may have been too conservative in this respect. Really, if you could balance out the strengths of both coaches you'd have a great coach. Bingo +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 i sincerely hope that ownership isnt dedicated to riding out the full 5 years because that would be a big mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 No because the end result of all the injuries and over played top players is a top 5 draft pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqua59 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The more I watch the more I wonder what Tortarella is doing. It's clear to me he doesn't understand the massive toll Vancouver's air travel takes on the players. He has skated his first two lines and top four D until they've all started to drop with injuries. Everyone who has followed the Canucks knew this would happen but Tortarella decided to run his stars into the ground. What's more, the Sedin's aren't made to play in your face D. And let them kill penalties once in a while but you can't play them this much, especially with so much travel. They're targets while they're on the ice and it's no surprise one of the cheap shots caught up to them. Too many times this season the team has looked barely able to finish the 3rd. Meanwhile, the fourth line has barely hit the ice. Tortarella's answer? throw a hissy and hope that motivates them. A.V. is looking like a freakin' genius. Oh please, get over AV being gone! You're still whining about Tort's suspension and AV? That's history. It amazes me that people expect the same high level of play when there are so many injuries. That's not an excuse it's a fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erkayloomeh Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I miss how vigorously AV chewed his gum behind the bench. If Torts wants my respect he'd better purchase a pack of trident already. it's true. You've got coaching all figured out in that chewing gum signifies inability to coach. Tantrums are the new genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP Ripper Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Don't miss AV, don't care for Torts. I do think AV did a better job of managing the players he had to work with, with the exception of Edler, who gets way too much ice time in crucial situations. AV had it right when dealing with the twins. I don't understand Torts' strategy of having them kill penalties night after night. While he makes no hesitation juggling his lines, he refuses to rest the Sedins and Kesler to maybe allow them to boost their offence. Don't understand it, never will. The Sedins are shadows of the players they used to be under Torts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP Ripper Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Bingo +1 Yep!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Honestly, I expected a thread like this to pop up exactly around this time of the year once Torts was hired. I am one of the few people (I think) that liked AV. However, I knew before last year that his time was up. Every coach has a shelf life, and AV needed to go. Anyone with half a brain could see that it was going to get worse without AV before it got better. Had AV been kept again, the team would most certainly be doing better then they are now. However, they wouldn't be the dominant team they once were. What hiring Torts does is speed up the retool/rebuild. He was given a 5 year contract because it is going to take time. Now that the team is used to Torts style of play, Gillis can see which players do not fit in with his style and trade them for pieces that should fit Torts' style. It was always going to take time. The thing is, Tort's coaching style is going to get exposed in the West unless he makes some serious adjustments to the way he manages the game and his players. I don't have a lot of faith in a guy who thinks that x's and o's are over-rated.......he has to go up against the smartest, craftiest coaches in the world in the western conference and he's not showing that he's up to the challenge yet, regardless of what his roster looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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